Chilly Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 The koran is a text of hypocracy. It preaches tolerance and then intolerance. If you are islamic, what are you supposed to do? I guess look at the life of mohammed for guidance. "Oh, hey look, he showed contempt for people of other or no religious belief, he murdered, and called for subjugation of those who opposed him in any way." How are they supposed to "filter" which parts of the book to follow? Maybe the parts based upon the examples laid out by it's founder? It's like if your math book said "2+2 = 4" and on another page "2+2=5". What do you do? I guess you recall what your math teacher did in class... Or if Charlie Manson had a few lines about peace and love in his madness. I guess if I went around calling myself a "peaceful mansonite" would be fine, so long as I was peaceful, and that would make charlie and his actions and beliefs peaceful too right? Just because it supposedly preaches both doesn't mean that it is a text of hypocracy since there are conditions involved. From what I've seen from the Qu'ran it says that they are to fight back against oppressors and be tolerant of other people that aren't oppressors. Sounds strangely like most country's foreign policies. Any time anyone critcizes islam. muslims flip out. Egypt is banning some european newspapers as we speak, for questioning mohammed's past. Why is that? The religion CANNOT stand up to criticism, nor can it's followers. 785462[/snapback] Is it the religion's fault or is it the culture of society over there which causes this? Do Muslims in the US ban their members from reading material which criticizes Islam? Egypt bans friggin anything and everything, including: Some Muslim Extremist Books, Madonna, Bruce Almighty, The Matrix, Foreign Belly Dancers, Foreign Poultry, The Da Vinci Code (book & movie), Shark Fishing, Poll Monitors, Bird Hunting, the wife of the owner of a ferry that sank in the Red Sea, and more. Egypt also has state-control of the media iirc. So is it the religion that is causing it, or is it the case where correlation is present, but does not cause it? Most Middle Eastern countries have strict government controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I don't deny that one bit. I'm well aware of the flaws with all major religions. But right now radical islam is a major problem worldwide, and it needs to be addressed. The problem is, a large portion of the muslims in the world cannot handle any dialogue regarding their religion and view it as an attack. It's as though the feel they deserve a special treatment, one that their founder did not afford to others. 785707[/snapback] Its interesting that you make the distinction of "radical islam" here, but you act as though all Islam is extremist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 That would have required him to actually read your posts. Of course, it is still all your fault for him not reading your posts. 785887[/snapback] Maybe since he wrote: "literally, as best I can make it out with my weak Arabic skills" It's pretty easy to assume that someone who admittedly has weak arabic skills and says something like "as best I can make out" might be using a translation on occasion... But I suppose outspoken critics of islam like Ibn Waraaq and Salmon Rushdie probably are using english translations of the Koran, so I should take your "weak" translations of the koran over theirs right? But again, neither of you counter the arguments I make. Neither of you. You just make attacks arguments ad hominem and leave it at that, ignoring truth and reality. If you like, I can quote every single post in our discussion and show you both that neither of you has addressed mohammed violent history of murder and persecution. But that would require the both of you to admit mohammed was violent, and that doesn't mesh well with your beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Maybe since he wrote: "literally, as best I can make it out with my weak Arabic skills" It's pretty easy to assume that someone who admittedly has weak arabic skills and says something like "as best I can make out" might be using a translation on occasion... But I suppose outspoken critics of islam like Ibn Waraaq and Salmon Rushdie probably are using english translations of the Koran, so I should take your "weak" translations of the koran over theirs right? But again, neither of you counter the arguments I make. Neither of you. You just make attacks arguments ad hominem and leave it at that, ignoring truth and reality. If you like, I can quote every single post in our discussion and show you both that neither of you has addressed mohammed violent history of murder and persecution. But that would require the both of you to admit mohammed was violent, and that doesn't mesh well with your beliefs. 785929[/snapback] IslamBad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 IslamBad. 785972[/snapback] I agree. Prove it isn't. Oops, you can't Islam is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I agree. Prove it isn't. Oops, you can't Islam is bad. 785975[/snapback] Actually, since you're the one making the claim, the burden of proof is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I agree. Prove it isn't. Oops, you can't Islam is bad. 785975[/snapback] You don't prove negatives. Try again. IslamBad!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 But that would require the both of you to admit mohammed was violent, and that doesn't mesh well with your beliefs. 785929[/snapback] His beliefs? What, now you're an expert on that, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Just because it supposedly preaches both doesn't mean that it is a text of hypocracy since there are conditions involved. From what I've seen from the Qu'ran it says that they are to fight back against oppressors and be tolerant of other people that aren't oppressors. Sounds strangely like most country's foreign policies. First off, thanks for responding with something other than nonsense. I was starting to get bored with those other two. Yes, the koran has very specific passages about fighting back and not striking first, but for every passage that seems to imply defense is ok (which logically it is ok to defend yourself) it preaches seeking out those in opposition to allah, and killing them. In fact the koran is very specific at certain point about being "cool" with jews and christians, but not with polytheists. I have yet to see anyone successfully argue that : a) mohhamed was peaceful or b) islam isn't very specific about hatin' on the poly's Many in the arabic world who speak out against islam are using the books in their native language, and they are able to point of plenty of thimgs that are either contradictory or hypocritical in nature, but obviously, that kimd of dissent is pretty well frowned upon. Is it the religion's fault or is it the culture of society over there which causes this? Do Muslims in the US ban their members from reading material which criticizes Islam? 785913[/snapback] I don't know, to be honest, but I'll imagine not many muslims want to read something critical of their beliefs. Honestly, how many people do? For all of the jews, muslims, and christians I know (or at least people that openly profess to be members of aforementioned religions) I have never heard of one of them reading a non-fiction book or essay that was a critical dissertation of their beliefs. After all, who like to think that they might be wrong. Now, culturally, islam has been used much in the way christianity was used by tyrants to control their subjects. It is going on throughout the muslim world right now, and the twist is, the governments and mullahs are using the western judeo-christian world as the root of the problems for their people. Give them someone to hate, and they'll latch onto their religion and forget their oppressor (or at least not realize who the real ones are). That being said, these other two would have you believe that I'm some racist xenophobe who is out to get islam, which is partly true. I'm out to get islam to reform. They need to address the problems with their religion and understand it's falible, just like the catholic church. Islam needs to address the parts of the koran that aren't peaceful, or that call for human conflict with those who are unbelievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Actually, since you're the one making the claim, the burden of proof is on you. 785977[/snapback] I've actually provided proof of my assertion in quotes from the texts and through the history of mohhamed being violent. All these two can muster as a counter-point is "nuh-uh" They have no counter other than monkey's admittedly poor translating skills.. My translations come from arabs, not monkeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 My translations come from arabs, not monkeys. 786035[/snapback] I'm surprised, given your racist point of view, you even discern a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I'm surprised, given your racist point of view, you even discern a difference. 786045[/snapback] What have I said that can be construed as racist? What have I said that implied a race or ethnicity of people is superior or inferior to another race or ethnicity? And please, provide an actual quote this time, not just "uh huh you are racist!!!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 "nuh-uh" 786035[/snapback] yuh-huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 yuh-huh. 786058[/snapback] I now see how you have time for such a high post count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 What have I said that can be construed as racist? What have I said that implied a race or ethnicity of people is superior or inferior to another race or ethnicity? 786054[/snapback] You mean the consistent attempts at trying to insult me by implying I'm Muslim weren't racism? Well...I could be wrong. Maybe it was just ignorant xenophobia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 You mean the consistent attempts at trying to insult me by implying I'm Muslim weren't racism? Well...I could be wrong. Maybe it was just ignorant xenophobia. 786062[/snapback] When did I imply you were muslim, and if I did imply you were muslim, how would that be an insult, unless I thought you would be insulted by being called one....???? That doesn't even make a shread of sense. If you are in fact refering to the quote (since you couldn't be bothered to include one I'll have to guess about what you are refering to...) where I said "your beliefs" in a response to you and KRC, I wasn't talking about your religious persuation, but your insistance that islam and it's founder are peaceful. Here is all of what I said: If you like, I can quote every single post in our discussion and show you both that neither of you has addressed mohammed violent history of murder and persecution. But that would require the both of you to admit mohammed was violent, and that doesn't mesh well with your beliefs. I'm guessing that's what you are talking about. But for the sake of argument, lets say that I did assume you and KRC were muslims. What part of that is racist? What part implies that I could have even guessed your ethnicity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 You mean the consistent attempts at trying to insult me by implying I'm Muslim weren't racism? Well...I could be wrong. Maybe it was just ignorant xenophobia. 786062[/snapback] We all know how sensitive you Muslims are when faced with the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 We all know how sensitive you Muslims are when faced with the truth. 786070[/snapback] Even if that was my intention, it's not racism. Get a dictionary. Wait, here are a few for you... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 If you are in fact refering to the quote (since you couldn't be bothered to include one I'll have to guess about what you are refering to...) where I said "your beliefs" in a response to you and KRC, I wasn't talking about your religious persuation, but your insistance that islam and it's founder are peaceful. 786068[/snapback] Please point out where I specifically stated that Islam and/or Mohammed are peaceful. I'll wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 When did I imply you were muslim, and if I did imply you were muslim, how would that be an insult, unless I thought you would be insulted by being called one....???? That doesn't even make a shread of sense. [...] But for the sake of argument, lets say that I did assume you and KRC were muslims. What part of that is racist? What part implies that I could have even guessed your ethnicity? 786068[/snapback] "Get out from the mosque much?" Used in a negative manner, to attempt to insult me. There's your direct quote, dipshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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