Lenny P

[Rico]

Tip Sheet

 

Perhaps the most curious move of the week was the decision by the Buffalo Bills to place safety Troy Vincent on injured reserve, sidelining him for the rest of the season, even though the 15-year veteran had only a hamstring strain that a lot of people figured was just a two- or four-week injury. The decision might indicate that the new football regime in Buffalo has more influence with owner Ralph Wilson than did its predecessors. It's no secret that the deposed Bills football axis didn't want Vincent around in 2005 and that Wilson essentially protected his roster spot. His classy reputation aside, there was a feeling that Vincent, who is president of the NFL Players Association, was not a good locker room presence for a young and impressionable team, and that he too often offered counsel to players that was at odds with the sentiment of management. It didn't matter, though, because Vincent, who some insist Wilson would like to someday bring into the Buffalo front office, was virtually untouchable.

It didn't take long, though, for Wilson's new football guys to find a convenient excuse, one that linebacker Takeo Spikes termed "baffling," to basically jettison Vincent. Rest assured, Spikes isn't the only Buffalo player upset by the treatment of Vincent, even though the longtime safety is a defender in decline. Hey, maybe it was just a football decision, given that Vincent, 35, is no longer a playmaker and that the Bills have a pair of rookie safeties (first-round choice Donte Whitner and fourth-rounder Ko Simpson) they want to get on the field. Then again, maybe there were some politics involved.

 

It's definitely an expensive decision, since Vincent is a vested veteran, and having him on the roster for the opening game means Buffalo is on the hook for his entire $2.6 million base salary for this season. Given his NFLPA background, Vincent is too smart to agree to an injury settlement, which would have meant forfeiting money. Buffalo can release him after six weeks of the season, provided he is healthy. If that happens, it will be interesting to see if any other team wants to take a shot on the league's current active interception leader.

[GG]

It still doesn't explain why they didn't do it Sept 1, and allowed them to keep Baker.

[Dawgg]

What he fails to mention is that the "deposed Bills football axis" SIGNED him to a long-term deal when he was on the wrong side of 30.

 

Tip Sheet

 

Perhaps the most curious move of the week was the decision by the Buffalo Bills to place safety Troy Vincent on injured reserve, sidelining him for the rest of the season, even though the 15-year veteran had only a hamstring strain that a lot of people figured was just a two- or four-week injury. The decision might indicate that the new football regime in Buffalo has more influence with owner Ralph Wilson than did its predecessors. It's no secret that the deposed Bills football axis didn't want Vincent around in 2005 and that Wilson essentially protected his roster spot. His classy reputation aside, there was a feeling that Vincent, who is president of the NFL Players Association, was not a good locker room presence for a young and impressionable team, and that he too often offered counsel to players that was at odds with the sentiment of management. It didn't matter, though, because Vincent, who some insist Wilson would like to someday bring into the Buffalo front office, was virtually untouchable.

It didn't take long, though, for Wilson's new football guys to find a convenient excuse, one that linebacker Takeo Spikes termed "baffling," to basically jettison Vincent. Rest assured, Spikes isn't the only Buffalo player upset by the treatment of Vincent, even though the longtime safety is a defender in decline. Hey, maybe it was just a football decision, given that Vincent, 35, is no longer a playmaker and that the Bills have a pair of rookie safeties (first-round choice Donte Whitner and fourth-rounder Ko Simpson) they want to get on the field. Then again, maybe there were some politics involved.

 

It's definitely an expensive decision, since Vincent is a vested veteran, and having him on the roster for the opening game means Buffalo is on the hook for his entire $2.6 million base salary for this season. Given his NFLPA background, Vincent is too smart to agree to an injury settlement, which would have meant forfeiting money. Buffalo can release him after six weeks of the season, provided he is healthy. If that happens, it will be interesting to see if any other team wants to take a shot on the league's current active interception leader.

774334[/snapback]

[Left Overture]

Interesting stuff.

 

I was wondering why the team was keeping an aging Vincent when they had no problems jettisoning Milloy.

[JStranger76]

Because Milloy REALLY didn't fit the cover two.

[eSJayDee]

It still doesn't explain why they didn't do it Sept 1, and allowed them to keep Baker.

 

That's my sentiment. I would've liked to have seen them retain Baker & Leonhard over Vincent & Wire.

[ganesh]

Because Milloy REALLY didn't fit the cover two.

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Also, I think they knew they would get Huff or Whitner in the draft to replace Milloy, whereas there was no gurantee that they would have got Simpson at

that pick.

[dave mcbride]

What he fails to mention is that the "deposed Bills football axis" SIGNED him to a long-term deal when he was on the wrong side of 30.

774342[/snapback]

they signed him before he got hurt and missed much of the 2004 season.

[Typical TBD Guy]

It still doesn't explain why they didn't do it Sept 1, and allowed them to keep Baker.

774341[/snapback]

 

Probably because Baker sucks, and because a healthy Vincent is better than Baker, and because safety talent equivalent to Baker can be easily found on the free agent market at any time (see: Leonhard, Jim).

 

Too much Baker fellating on this board. Didn't anyone else see him get scorched in the preseason? Dude just doesn't fit the cover 2 D well. He's almost as bad as Wire....

[dave mcbride]

Tip Sheet

 

Perhaps the most curious move of the week was the decision by the Buffalo Bills to place safety Troy Vincent on injured reserve, sidelining him for the rest of the season, even though the 15-year veteran had only a hamstring strain that a lot of people figured was just a two- or four-week injury. The decision might indicate that the new football regime in Buffalo has more influence with owner Ralph Wilson than did its predecessors. It's no secret that the deposed Bills football axis didn't want Vincent around in 2005 and that Wilson essentially protected his roster spot. His classy reputation aside, there was a feeling that Vincent, who is president of the NFL Players Association, was not a good locker room presence for a young and impressionable team, and that he too often offered counsel to players that was at odds with the sentiment of management. It didn't matter, though, because Vincent, who some insist Wilson would like to someday bring into the Buffalo front office, was virtually untouchable.

It didn't take long, though, for Wilson's new football guys to find a convenient excuse, one that linebacker Takeo Spikes termed "baffling," to basically jettison Vincent. Rest assured, Spikes isn't the only Buffalo player upset by the treatment of Vincent, even though the longtime safety is a defender in decline. Hey, maybe it was just a football decision, given that Vincent, 35, is no longer a playmaker and that the Bills have a pair of rookie safeties (first-round choice Donte Whitner and fourth-rounder Ko Simpson) they want to get on the field. Then again, maybe there were some politics involved.

 

It's definitely an expensive decision, since Vincent is a vested veteran, and having him on the roster for the opening game means Buffalo is on the hook for his entire $2.6 million base salary for this season. Given his NFLPA background, Vincent is too smart to agree to an injury settlement, which would have meant forfeiting money. Buffalo can release him after six weeks of the season, provided he is healthy. If that happens, it will be interesting to see if any other team wants to take a shot on the league's current active interception leader.

774334[/snapback]

 

no secret?!? perhaps not to the journalist friends of tom donohoe, but it's news to everyone else (including, most likely, the staffs of the buffalo news and the d & c).

[tennesseeboy]

But on September 1 the guy simply was not hurt. I hope he gets a chance to contribute to some other team. He really is on his last year or possibly two and clearing the decks for the new guys is probably for the best.

[JStranger76]

No one had a crystal ball either. Boo hoo, Spikes is mad. Vincent is 35. Let's move on.

[stuckincincy]

Probably because Baker sucks, and because a healthy Vincent is better than Baker, and because safety talent equivalent to Baker can be easily found on the free agent market at any time (see: Leonhard, Jim).

 

Too much Baker fellating on this board. Didn't anyone else see him get scorched in the preseason? Dude just doesn't fit the cover 2 D well. He's almost as bad as Wire....

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True - perhaps not specifically Baker or Leonhard.

 

What's been lost is the reason why the position sports the name, "safety".

 

They are the ones that get to act on other defender's errors or just the plain fact that offensive players can and do beat defenders from time to time. As poster Pyrite Gal points out, Vincent was the team leader in defensive turnovers.

 

All good wishes for the young legs of a Ko Simpson, but the fact is that a DB scheme that has safeties do cornerback duties and vice versa can be well-served by buying a player with some time in grade and a level of smarts from pro experience. But no guarantees.

 

Culpepper, whatever you think of him, is not going to miss the fact that a rookie is out there.

 

There are not a lot of decent FS's out there for easy picking. Last season, B'gals lost Madieu Williams after game 4. The fellow they paid, a vet, stunk...

[HurlyBurly51]

It still doesn't explain why they didn't do it Sept 1, and allowed them to keep Baker.

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I think it touched on it. Basically he was viewed as "untouchable" and we weren't down to three healthy safeties at the time. The opportunity presented itself, and the new regime pounced at the chance to use the convenient excuse to jettison a guy they wanted gone all along. Office politics at its best! Plus maybe they just didn't like Baker all that much in a cover 2 scheme

[JAMIEBUF12]

everybody is saying marv screwed the pooch on this one and maybe he did,.......................but maybe ralph wilson (who is known for not liking to part with money) wanted to pay vincent.maybe it was just a classy move..ie...vincent dosnt fit into our plans now ,but may later in the front office or as a coach.if its true and he was untouchable it sounds really like the owner wanted vincent to be takien care of?

[bluenews]

It still doesn't explain why they didn't do it Sept 1, and allowed them to keep Baker.

774341[/snapback]

 

It wasn't because of skill level. Mostly due to his NFLPA position.

[Lurker]

Tip Sheet

It didn't matter, though, because Vincent, who some insist Wilson would like to someday bring into the Buffalo front office, was virtually untouchable.

774334[/snapback]

 

I think Ralph really likes Vincent, as he's a veteran player he can relate to like those from the glory days...articulate, well-respected and clearly savvy when it comes to dealing with the owner.

 

Ralph's got a long history of protecting his favorites, so I can see him intervening with TD and MM last year and even with Marv and Dick this preseason when it came time to make roster decisions. Yet another physical breakdown by TV--in week 1, no less--appears to have allowed the team's "football men" to gain the upper hand in actually determining who makes the roster.

[Pyrite Gal]

Probably because Baker sucks, and because a healthy Vincent is better than Baker, and because safety talent equivalent to Baker can be easily found on the free agent market at any time (see: Leonhard, Jim).

 

Too much Baker fellating on this board. Didn't anyone else see him get scorched in the preseason? Dude just doesn't fit the cover 2 D well. He's almost as bad as Wire....

774377[/snapback]

 

Bingo! I think Baker (a UDFA who did a tremendous amount simply making the team much less the starting he did as a rookie) sealed his fate when the man he seemed to be covering (he was by far the closes player to him) from the Lions (I think but I already covere the tape) scored a TD on him in the pre-season.

 

Both Leonhard (as a PR guy) and even the useless Coy Wire showed more than Baker on ST (Baker actually even got his hands on an onside kick that Lindell tried in 04 but could not bring it in) and I think this faux pas as a position player essentially doomed him. He obviously is better to have than nothing, but singing his praises beyond that fact is simply speculative.

 

While Lenny P's theory on this at least is more rationale than a hilarious take on this which has no foundation beyond the usual fact free opinion that PFW trotted out, it still seems fairly unlikely.

 

While TV'd NFLPA Presidency is a simple fact which comes into play regarding decisions about cutting or keeping him, the driver of decisions in this process without some clear evidence to show otherwise is almost certainly football assessment.

 

At the very least football skill is the justification which must be offered in the discussion between members of the braintrust. Overall, i think the football-world safety assessment at the time of the move was this:

 

1. Vincent- A player well into the backside of his career who whether folks want to acknowledge reality or not led the team in turnovers taken last year (he tied for the team lead in INTs and FRs) and answered the call in all 16 games last year.

 

He suffered from a hammy pull which did not allow him to play in pre-season (a concern for a younger person) and a hug concern for an older player with only 3 available safties on our roster (two of whom are rookies and the other is Coy Wire). The hammy felt good enough that TV did not even appear on the injury report prior to NE. Further we cut Leonhard who was the next best safety as his likely contributions as a sub would be on ST where he was well behind PR choices like even pressing Clements into duty if Parrish cannot answer the call. Baker was a good story as this UDFA not only made the team but contributed on the field. However, he showed elemental coverage problems in pre=seaspn practice and games and the choice would be between a two bad coverage guys (Wire and Baker) one of whom at least has the talent to try to use him on ST.

 

Keeping TV made good sense not only because he led the team in turnovers last year and was not injured out of being available last year, but the primary complaint about his play last year was that he did not tackle well enough. This duty is called for a lot in the zone-blitz we used last year, but actually his coverage skills which got him several Pro Bowl at CB is what is going tio be called for in the Cover 2. In addition, he is a well-respected Pro among his peers as evidenced by his election as NFLPA Pres and most fans view him as a Class Act so having him to train the three DB rookies makes a tone of sense.

 

However, his hammy injury is uncertain at best and we are looking at probably 4 games at least with only 3 Ss on the roster. We need a roster spot and that is the priority.

 

Whitner- Impressive start at SS where getting burned for a mid-distance reception by Watson is easily offset by the ability he showed to provide run support and by getting an INT (which led to a bizarre ref performance BTW). He is our SS (particularly after another horrid SS performance by Wire).

 

Simpson- Nice. The number of tackles, not getting burned (yet) on any big gains or TDs, and anecdotal reactions to his play indicate we may have stumbled upon a real player on the second day of the draft.

 

Wire- Yecch.

 

Bowen- Probably the 3rd best safety on the team behind a health TV and an emerging Whitner, but he is out and not expected back this week and probably the next.

 

In the face of this, the obvious move is to bring back Leonhard, but the question is how to create a roster spot. TV may be back in 2-4 games, but given him having 2-3 weeks in pre-season and feeling like he could answer the bell but who knows, it may be longer. We could create a roster spot by chopping someone like an inactive from last week but folks such as DiGrregorio and Merz might be put to use and cutting them is risky.

 

The move to create a roster spot by putting TV on the "minor" IR list looks like a good thing to do,

 

TV will not be able to play for the vast majority of week 6 minimum before you can either cut and pay a player or if he clears waivers even resign him as he becomes a FA who can go anywhere. While it would be a longshot to bring him back, if something happens like an injury to Whitner or Simpson, we can cross that bridge if we come to it. Obviously the minor IR contingency if TV's hammy acts up has been discussed with him (I do not think they could have acted so fast to do this unless it was previously discussed) and TV is fine with it (based on his public statements) and is even willing to still be a member of this team as he has volunteered publicly to hang around and teach the DB rookies for several weeks (though IR leaves him under no obligation to the team).

 

 

At that point when see if Simpson keeps up the same performance, how Bowen recovers, and how Leohard does, we can make a decision about what to do.

 

The other unsubstantiated theory which seems unlikely to me. but actually more likely than the PFW cut that no one on the Bills understands the IR thiing or if they do they are too afraid of Marv to bring it up, and also more likely than the Lenny P. theory that when Ralph says he likes Troy, he really means he likes him-likes him, is the idea that actually TV and the Bills have conspired together for the good of the team to have TV go on minor IR to get his hammy healed and then when six weeks role around he can clear waivers (which he almost certainly will do) and then resign with the Bills to play with Simpson, Whitner, etc.

 

While the theory that this is what is happening is possible under the rules, there is no evidence to suggest this is the case beyibd the circumstantial evidence that clearly TV and the Bills have doped this situation out as they moved quickly and talked about the situtation calmly and positively when it came. Perhaps they moved so quickly as it will maximize TV's practic time for a comeback and allow TV to be a teammate for the intervening six weeks without the hindrances that the PUP list or some other move which provides the needed roster spot would havesaddled the Bills and TV with.

 

I and the rest of the media simply do know what the other shoe is in this deal. However, it appears to be a situation which for 6 weeks of the Bills are making the best of a bad situation. It would take an unlikely conspiracy for the Bills to resign TV after 6 weeks, but even this unlikely scenario seens more likely than the rants of PFW or the theorizing of Lenny P.

[Nanker]

Ralph's got plenty of money and we're several bucks under the cap.

It's Ralphie's cash to splash.

I think given that TV decided to hang around and "coach" some of the younger players and not scram for a hot tub in Cherry Hill that he's trying to work his way into the front office. Ralphie could use a guy like him as a go between the League and Players Ass.

[apuszczalowski]

Maybe this was TV's idea. With the Pats filing a grievance against Branch and TV being head of the NFLPA (or head player representative, or whatever) he was starting to get really busy and needed some time to work on thiongs so he decided he would like to go on the IR to finish this work

 

Or maybe there is another conspiracy theory that pins the blame on Ralph or Marv doing something stupid, who knows?

 

All I know is it was something that was mutually agreeded apon, and with TV being out for a little while and Bowen also out indefinitly, maybe the Bills ahad to let go of somebody to bring in someone who could actually play the position on the field instead of from the bench on crutches