I 90 Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 What sort of nonsense is this ? Is Marv supposed to cut ten or fifteen guys that seem likely to be hurt during the season and bring them back after the first game so as not to guarantee their salaries ? Is that the kind of foresight that this managerial expert is advocating ? Clearly the work of a visionary genius. .
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Yeah, we could have cut him before opening day. No way he'd have signed back. Not only that, but what message does that send future free agent veterans around the league? It's hard to believe people actually buy this crap.
Acantha Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Ignoring the already mentioned stupidity of this article, I would also say that this "minor" injured reserve thing is probably NOT in the Bills best interest. And that is why I think it was a great move by them. This deal gave Vincent the best possible situation. They are giving a great Vet (knowledge and experience if not still talent) a great deal while allowing him to further pursue a better deal in the future if he so wishes. If the Bills were strapped for cash, it probably wouldn't happen. But they have the money, and the organization as a whole is showing all the players in the league what they are willing to do for their players. I think once Spikes and others realize what this deal really did for Vincent, they will see it for what it really was.
jjsiepierski34 Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Yup. We'll just ignore the fact that he played all sixteen games last year and tied Terrence McGee for the team lead in INTs. I'm fully on board with the decision to move on without him, but I've got this pet peeve about revisionist history... 773591[/snapback] Yup, I would LOVE to ignore every, single thing that went on last year while we went 5-11, and happened to be a national embarassment; I would prefer to act as if none of it ever happened; while also allowing a washed up, 15 year veteran with hamstring problems to go as opposed to building the foundation of a new defense with said Defensive Back. DB's who can't run, and have perpetual hamstring problems go on my cut list, but what do I know? Call it revisionist history, I prefer to call it ignorance is bliss, but either way, your idea (or maybe it was subconsciously mine) to "ignore last season" is a terrific one! TROY VINCENT FOR PRESIDENT! Oops, he already is. TROY VINCENT IN THE HALL OF FAME. TROY VINCENT IS SANTA CLAUSE! Good riddance. Did we forget that on top of all of this, Troy Vincent was one of the better "Bill Killers" during his time in Miami? If any of us believe in karma, this signing was doomed from the beginning. Similar to having your mascot be a Bison, and then name your team after "Buffalo Bill" Cody, known worldwide as the individual who has slaughtered the most bison in the history of planet Earth. But why digress? Troy Vincent is, and should be a distant memory.
obie_wan Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 I have no idea, but he may be referring to the fact that TV's hamstring injury initially occured in preseason. There has got to be an explaination. If Marv is one thing, he is smart. Moreover, Russ Brandon (if I recall his name) really seems to know his way around the league rules. There has got to be something more to this. 773543[/snapback] Maybe since he knows the rules so well as Union Pres, TV worked them to the max to get his 2006 salary guaranteed by misrepesenting his good health to the Bills.
Bob in STL Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Yup, I would LOVE to ignore every, single thing that went on last year while we went 5-11, and happened to be a national embarassment; I would prefer to act as if none of it ever happened; while also allowing a washed up, 15 year veteran with hamstring problems to go as opposed to building the foundation of a new defense with said Defensive Back. DB's who can't run, and have perpetual hamstring problems go on my cut list, but what do I know? Call it revisionist history, I prefer to call it ignorance is bliss, but either way, your idea (or maybe it was subconsciously mine) to "ignore last season" is a terrific one! TROY VINCENT FOR PRESIDENT! Oops, he already is. TROY VINCENT IN THE HALL OF FAME. TROY VINCENT IS SANTA CLAUSE! Good riddance. Did we forget that on top of all of this, Troy Vincent was one of the better "Bill Killers" during his time in Miami? If any of us believe in karma, this signing was doomed from the beginning. Similar to having your mascot be a Bison, and then name your team after "Buffalo Bill" Cody, known worldwide as the individual who has slaughtered the most bison in the history of planet Earth. But why digress? Troy Vincent is, and should be a distant memory. 773667[/snapback] so ... you don't like Troy?
East Brady Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Does anyone know if this mini-IR is some new component of the new CBA??? If so,, then how can Marv be accused of being old and stupid, but, yet know so much about it????
Albany,n.y. Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 This article & Brad reading it on WGR got me so riled up last night I first e-mailed Brad and then called him. Summing up my thoughts: Vincent wasn't on the injury report on opening day, therefore he was fit to play before the game started, so why does Florio think he should have been cut before the game, when the main reason he was in effect cut occurred during the game-reaggravating an injury that wasn't even reportable for the game before it started. Marv would have had to be Nostradamus to know that Vincent would get hurt. Ko Simpson had never played in a regular season game, and even if they were high on him, they didn't know if he was ready to start over Vincent. As for Peter's "hoping it's not true" WTF do you hope is not true? That Marv didn't have Nostradamus like foresight that Vincent would get injured in game 1? Florio is a jerk for writing an article that is flawed by an illogical premise that Marv Levy is supposed to see the future before it happens and base his cuts on his visions. Before Florio writes again, I'd advise him to either take or retake Logic 101 because his whole premise is illogical. And for Peter, I'd say wake up and don't be a Florio lemming.
SamsBuffetTable Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 What happened: Matt Bowen got hurt in the preseason. This forced the Bills to keep Coy Wire so there were two SS's able to play for the first few weeks. Consequently Rashard Baker got cut due to Coy being in his roster spot. Troy got hurt. Since Baker got cut the Bills were left with one FS able to play. The Bills placed Troy on IR because they needed more than one FS able to play for the next few weeks. Since they realized that they were d1ck1ng Troy over and that he wouldn't be starting for them again they gave him the ability to sign with another team.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Does anyone know if this mini-IR is some new component of the new CBA??? If so,, then how can Marv be accused of being old and stupid, but, yet know so much about it???? 773739[/snapback] It's not. We put Christie on it a few years back. It's possible the rules have been tweaked but it's been around a long time.
Peter Posted September 15, 2006 Author Posted September 15, 2006 This article & Brad reading it on WGR got me so riled up last night I first e-mailed Brad and then called him. Summing up my thoughts: Vincent wasn't on the injury report on opening day, therefore he was fit to play before the game started, so why does Florio think he should have been cut before the game, when the main reason he was in effect cut occurred during the game-reaggravating an injury that wasn't even reportable for the game before it started. Marv would have had to be Nostradamus to know that Vincent would get hurt. Ko Simpson had never played in a regular season game, and even if they were high on him, they didn't know if he was ready to start over Vincent. As for Peter's "hoping it's not true" WTF do you hope is not true? That Marv didn't have Nostradamus like foresight that Vincent would get injured in game 1? Florio is a jerk for writing an article that is flawed by an illogical premise that Marv Levy is supposed to see the future before it happens and base his cuts on his visions. Before Florio writes again, I'd advise him to either take or retake Logic 101 because his whole premise is illogical. And for Peter, I'd say wake up and don't be a Florio lemming. 773770[/snapback] You really need to read the posts that I have written on the subject. I really, really hope that there is a good reason. I have a lot of confidence in Marv. My hope is that the Bills are taking a calculated risk that no one will pick him up on waivers and that TV will want to stay with the Bills in some capacity (or some scenario beneficial to the Bills). I would hate to think that the Bills outsmarted themselves and will be stuck paying TV's entire salary only to see him play for another team after 6 weeks. There has got to be an explaination. If Marv is one thing, he is smart. Moreover, Russ Brandon (if I recall his name) really seems to know his way around the league rules. There has got to be something more to this. Although there are some interesting items on PFT now and again, one of the things that I cannot stand is PFT's unrelenting crusade against the Bills, Ralph, and Marv. It seems as though, every chance they get, they try to take pot shots at the Bills in general and Ralph and Marv in particular. For example, when Ralph voted against the agreement with the NFLPA and then lobbied for better revenue sharing, they made gratuitous comments about his age etc. As it turns out, Ralph was correct all along. Very rarely does one find anything positive about the Bills on PFT. (It is a bit like reading some of the posts on this board by people who have their particular crusades against individual Bills, e.g., WM). I have to believe that the Bills knew exactly what they were doing and what the ramifications were and that there are no surprises here. You seem to be responding to something that I did not say. What I am hoping is not true is that the Bills did not know all of the ramifications of the mini IR designation. PFT makes it sound as though Marv is a bumbling old fool. As I have said, if Marv is one thing, he is smart. I have to believe that they fully understood what they were doing and know all the angles.
dave mcbride Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 What happened: Matt Bowen got hurt in the preseason. This forced the Bills to keep Coy Wire so there were two SS's able to play for the first few weeks. Consequently Rashard Baker got cut due to Coy being in his roster spot. Troy got hurt. Since Baker got cut the Bills were left with one FS able to play. The Bills placed Troy on IR because they needed more than one FS able to play for the next few weeks. Since they realized that they were d1ck1ng Troy over and that he wouldn't be starting for them again they gave him the ability to sign with another team. 773774[/snapback] they could have placed him on the PUP list ...
Albany,n.y. Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 You really need to read the posts that I have written on the subject. You seem to be responding to something that I did not say. What I am hoping is not true is that the Bills did not know all of the ramifications of the mini IR designation. PFT makes it sound as though Marv is a bumbling old fool. As I have said, if Marv is one thing, he is smart. I have to believe that they fully understood what they were doing and know all the angles. 773803[/snapback] Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure the Bills knew all the ramifications. I think their main goal in this is sending Vincent on his way when he's healthy enough to join another team because they want to give him an opportunity to get more playing time than he'd get here. They realize that by the time he comes back, Vincent would be a reserve and Vincent probably indicated to them he preferred to be let go. A lot of media types are enjoting their age jokes on Marv & Ralph. Whoever is making the personnel decisions, Marv, Modrak etc, they did a great job in this draft and the organization is well aware of the NFL rules-a lot more aware than the writers who criticize them.
Albany,n.y. Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 they could have placed him on the PUP list ... 773805[/snapback] No they couldn't. PUP is reserved for guys who come to camp injured. Players who practiced & played in preseason before injury are not eligible for PUP.
Dr. Trooth Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 I don't think they made any mistake at all. Let's be real...TV is the players NFLPA union steward. So, the Bills are going to tread lightly. Plus, I'm fairly certain that everyone agrees that TV, albeit an albatross of sorts becuase he's always injured, is a 'class act'. Ralph is a little more forgiving and more generous with his money than a scumbag like Robert Kraft... who refused to pay his best player anywhere close to market value. So, these expert writers that talk a lot of BS would-coulda-shoulds.... are the same !@#$s that, on theri best day, could not run a pop warner football team, let alone an NFL franchise. TV is 35 years old. He would not/will not make an apperciable difference in the Bills w/l record this season. The Bills have chose to take the "high road" and pay him. And even if the Bills allow him to sign with another team later this season... perhaps a playoff bound team that needs a little insurance, so be it...TV's playing days for the Bills are essentially overwith. Why not let him hook up with another team if he so desires and the bills are agreable.... it's just the damn right thing to do.
dogbyte Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Players can not be put on the PUP list after the season starts. Even if he clears wavers, the Bills can not re-sign him. They can re-sign him next year not this year. These are the rules of minor IR, it is to keep teams from stahing players. He does get his full salary, not like major IR where he gets 1/2.
ganesh Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 It's not. We put Christie on it a few years back. It's possible the rules have been tweaked but it's been around a long time. 773802[/snapback] And also wasn't the same rule that the Houston Oilers tried to use to sneak the Greatest ST in NFL history and he somehow screwed them and signed up with the Bills ?
Kelly the Dog Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 And also wasn't the same rule that the Houston Oilers tried to use to sneak the Greatest ST in NFL history and he somehow screwed them and signed up with the Bills ? 773868[/snapback] I believe that was just the normal waiver wire but I am not sure. I do know that it was a common practice for teams to slip injured guys through that particular waiver rule back that, and kind of an unwritten law that other teams wouldn't steal them off it. But the Bills (I think Marv) liked Tasker so much that they stole him off it and the Oilers were pissed. Lori would likely know the facts. Here's Tasker's version: "I was drafted in the ninth round by the Houston Oilers and I played parts of two seasons with them when Jerry Glanville was the head coach, Tasker recalled. "I was injured and they tried to activate me for a Sunday game because I had gotten healthy again. They put me over the waiver wire for 24 hours which was the rule at that time. Marv Levy had just gotten the job in Buffalo and needed some special teams players and one of the guys on his staff knew me and talked to Marv about me and they grabbed me off the waiver wire. I was only supposed to be on there for 24 hours but I got picked up. I was on my way to Buffalo that very next day. That was it."
pBills Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 I believe all in all it was a smart move. For these reasons. A) TV was getting up there in age. And had already tweaked his hamstring in I believe Training Camp or in Preseason. We all know that these injuries take time to heal. With his age, could be longer than normal. B) Having him start guarantees him some money. Good move because it keeps a veteran, who knows and understands the business side of it very happy and motivated to teach the younger players. Even if it's only for a few weeks. C) We drafted these guys high, are playing them a lot of money. They need playing time. Best thing is that have talent. Whitner 8 tackles and an Int last week. Pretty nice start. D) These guys will get picked on, no doubt. However, with their speed and abilities they should be able to make some plays as well.
Fan in San Diego Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 Although there are some interesting items on PFT now and again, one of the things that I cannot stand is PFT's unrelenting crusade against the Bills, Ralph, and Marv. It seems as though, every chance they get, they try to take pot shots at the Bills in general and Ralph and Marv in particular. For example, when Ralph voted against the agreement with the NFLPA and then lobbied for better revenue sharing, they made gratuitous comments about his age etc. As it turns out, Ralph was correct all along. Very rarely does one find anything positive about the Bills on PFT. (It is a bit like reading some of the posts on this board by people who have their particular crusades against individual Bills, e.g., WM). I have to believe that the Bills knew exactly what they were doing and what the ramifications were and that there are no surprises here. 773596[/snapback] Nothing like winning to silence the critics !
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