Rebuilding year?

[stuckincincy]

Marv and Dick and many of the assistants have been saying it all year - the Bills are rebuilding this year.

 

They still have to sell tickets though so they convince the fans with doubletalk how the Bills will be "competitive".

 

"I never did want to look at it that way," Spikes said. "But you have to be a realist about every situation that happens. If you write it down on paper or even say it out loud, it spells rebuilding. As much as you don't want it to be that way, ultimately that's the way that it is."

I am not saying rebuilding is bad. It is certainly necessary, but the fans have to lower expectations to face the reality.

 

What pisses me off if the rebuilding starts every couple years after the most recent coaching and management failures.

 

This time will be different? We'll see.

773180[/snapback]

 

Yep. A team that commits to rebuilding can be fun to watch. With FA, seems all clubs do it every 3 to 5 years.

 

As long as they don't act like dolts - see the '90's B'gals, Cards, and recently the Raiders and Lions - so much the better. It would be nice to be in the mix for this year's SB...but this team along with a bunch of others will likely fall short.

 

If in most games, they get off a nice bomb or two, a long run or a crush-the-dl 10 yard gain, flatten a qb or send a WR into the cheap seats or put an opposing rb flat in his fanny, well, that's good football. Entertaing stuff that makes one look forward.

 

Nothing wrong with that...

[mead107]

it is still Bills football . good bad whatever it is Bills football and i still love it .

[reddogblitz]

RunTheDamnBall sez: "The difference is we beat cream puffs at the end of 04. "

 

And what cream puffs might those be? I seem to recall us beating some good teams like the Seahawks (38 - 9) in thier house. They won their division and went to the play offs that year. We also beat jacksonville save for a bad pushed out of bounds call at the very end.

 

Don't get me wrong. I expect great things this year. Go BILLS. Just Jonesin' for Ws ...

[Billsguy]

I thought we all knew it was going to be a rebuilding year.  This isn't new news.

773324[/snapback]

 

 

Apparently, it is new news to many.

 

The personnel decisions clearly indicate rebuilding.

 

I say let the young guys play and get experience. The old method of acquiring old overpaid veterans was clearly a failure under TD. Just thinking about Bledsoe, Milloy, and others makes me sick. What a waste.

 

JP should have played all year last year to get the experience.

 

Keeping all the draft picks this year was a clear sign that a new direction may be underway.

 

Hopefully the draft picks can play.

[Dibs]

Apparently, it is new news to many.

 

The personnel decisions clearly indicate rebuilding.

 

I say let the young guys play and get experience. The old method of acquiring old overpaid veterans was clearly a failure under TD. Just thinking about Bledsoe, Milloy, and others makes me sick. What a waste.

 

JP should have played all year last year to get the experience.

 

Keeping all the draft picks this year was a clear sign that a new direction may be underway.

 

Hopefully the draft picks can play.

773353[/snapback]

It is not a rebuilding year.

It is a continuation of the building that has been happening.

We have potential young stars at QB, WR, RB. These three positions are usually the cornerstone of both rebuilding & most superbowl offenses. We are not rebuilding them.

We have the same....LT, RG, RT, FB....LE, RE, OLBx2, ILB, CBx2, STers & up until just recently FS. We needed DTs, OLmen, our Safteys were old, WR depth(& general depth throughout) & our QB/RB/WR trio to develop.

As I said, we are continuing the building process not rebuilding from scratch.

If the young potential talent on the roster does not pan out, we will have to rebuild...until they don't, we are continuing the rebuild from a few years back.

 

Does Ko Simpson look GOOD?

Did TV get injured waaaaay too easily....again?

Why does the TV issue mean we are rebuilding?

Just because TKO gets emotional when his friends get cut does not mean what he is saying is correct.

[Billsguy]

It is not a rebuilding year.

773464[/snapback]

 

 

I disagree strongly. It is clearly a rebuilding year.

 

20 new players from last year

 

all draft picks make the team

 

What in heavens would you call a rebuilding year?

 

53 new players?

[daquixers_is_back]

I agree that it is a rebuilding year. Losman has already made big strides towards becoming a good QB, but he is not quite there yet. Maybe by the end of this season and start of next training camp. We need a good OL. Period.

[Stussy109]

Starting young players doesn't necessarily mean rebuilding... In the days of TD when our draft picks added nothing to a team, our core was made up of older veteran FA's. Our philosophynow is build from within. I like this approach and think this team is more competitive than last year.

 

Even though we walked away last week with a Loss, i feel we showed fight and poise unlike any other year. I was hoping rashad baker would unseat vincent this year at FS anyways. Although TV is a ball hawk, he is a liability in the run game. I think Ko will bring the same physical attributes to the field with less experience, but with more hunger for the game. in TV's position, he most likely is just going through the motions. Good move in my opinion.

 

another note... in the modern day NFL, every year is a rebuilding year. Dynasties NEVER stay together!

[daquixers_is_back]

Starting young players doesn't necessarily mean rebuilding... In the days of TD when our draft picks added nothing to a team, our core was made up of older veteran FA's.  Our philosophynow is build from within.  I like this approach and think this team is more competitive than last year.

 

Even though we walked away last week with a Loss, i feel we showed fight and poise unlike any other year.  I was hoping rashad baker would unseat vincent this year at FS anyways.  Although TV is a ball hawk, he is a liability in the run game.  I think Ko will bring the same physical attributes to the field with less experience, but with more hunger for the game.  in TV's position, he most likely is just going through the motions.  Good move in my opinion.

 

another note... in the modern day NFL, every year is a rebuilding year.  Dynasties NEVER stay together!

773521[/snapback]

 

Starting with young players does not mean rebuilding. You are right. But starting with young players, usually means losing.

 

Losing=Rebuilding in my head

[Rico]

It is not a rebuilding year.

It is a continuation of the building that has been happening. 

We have potential young stars at QB, WR, RB.  These three positions are usually the cornerstone of both rebuilding & most superbowl offenses.  We are not rebuilding them.

We have the same....LT, RG, RT, FB....LE, RE, OLBx2, ILB, CBx2, STers & up until just recently FS. 

773464[/snapback]

Agree with 2 of your 3 cornerstone positions, JP is still a big ?. But if one were to map out what this team will look like when it is truly ready to make a Super Bowl run, I seriously doubt that you would include the present LT, RG, FB, or LE... all 4 of those positions are currently manned by stop-gap players. Also, the MLB and possibly 1 of the OLB's may be too old at that time. And 1 of the 2 CBs may or may not still be with the team next year. And that's just the tip of the iceburg. All those slots that will need to be upgraded/refilled indicate to me that this is clearly Year 1 of a new rebuilding program.

[Dibs]

I disagree strongly. It is clearly a rebuilding year.

 

20 new players from last year

 

all draft picks make the team

 

What in heavens would you call a rebuilding year?

 

53 new players?

773516[/snapback]

I think this perhaps comes down to semantics.

Re-building to me is when the roster is cleaned out & one starts from scratch. This happened with us a few years back.

The problem we had is that the depth behind our starters was very bad. I do not consider replacing a bunch of backups as cleaning house.

Keeping rookies implies two things...

1. The team had shiit backups

2. The players drafted were perhaps very good.

 

As I said in my earlier post..."We needed DTs, OLmen, our Safteys were old, WR depth(& general depth throughout) & our QB/RB/WR trio to develop. "

That means that we were fine at CB, LB, DE, QB, RB, #1WR.

We obtained most of those from earlier re-building.

 

Yes, I agree this is a rebuild year....in the context that we have already had several of them & now hopefully are starting to see some of the benefits...JPL as example.

This is not however a start from scratch re-build year.

 

I believe we will be competitive this year & our week 1 performance backs that thought.

If we were in a start from scratch re-build, expect 3-13.

[Dibs]

Agree with 2 of your 3 cornerstone positions, JP is still a big ?. But if one were to map out what this team will look like when it is truly ready to make a Super Bowl run, I seriously doubt that you would include the present LT, RG, FB, or LE... all 4 of those positions are currently manned by stop-gap players. Also, the MLB and possibly 1 of the OLB's may be too old at that time. And 1 of the 2 CBs may or may not still be with the team next year. And that's just the tip of the iceburg. All those slots that will need to be upgraded/refilled indicate to me that this is clearly Year 1 of a new rebuilding program.

773531[/snapback]

But that is all just your normal attrition & trying to fill sub standard slots with better players. Even the best team has adequate players as starters in some positions.

As I said in my last post, this is semantics. Rebuild implies start from scratch. We are well past that point & it could well(depending on JPL?) be only next year that the pieces fall into place.

[ricojes]

In order to rebuild, wouldn't you already have to have been built?

773289[/snapback]

Actually no! You can start to build something, never finish, and then start over and re-buid it. Just like the Bills, the attempt to build by TD was never completed. I am starting to get tired of this word, let's go with "re-tooling"!!! Or, do you have to be a tool to be re-tooled???

 

Squish the Fish..............

[Rico]

But that is all just your normal attrition & trying to fill sub standard slots with better players.  Even the best team has adequate players as starters in some positions.

As I said in my last post, this is semantics.  Rebuild implies start from scratch.  We are well past that point & it could well(depending on JPL?) be only next year that the pieces fall into place.

773547[/snapback]

I know it's still very early, but I have seen nothing to date indicating to me that we are "well past that point". Things look promising, but there's still a long way to go. Next year is not impossible, but Marv & co. will really need to hit many, many home runs in the off-season to make it happen.

[LevysEraII]

Folks, folks, folks...You got it all wrong. The Bills never really did rebuild under TD. Yes, they did cut loose a few vets and they were on their way to rebuilding up until they signed Drew Bledsoe.

 

After that they began to fill the roster with free agents such as London Fletcher, Jeff Posey, Takeo Spikes, Troy Vincent, Lawyer Milloy, Chris Villariall, Bennie Anderson etc etc etc. That isn't rebuilding. That's called retooling. You rebuild the way the Bills are rebuilding now. With draftees and young free agents.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against signing veteran free agents. I just think the timing was bad. The Bills needed another draft or two before they went shopping for free agents such as the guys I've stated above.

 

One example of the timing being bad is what happened to Coy Wire when Lawyer Milloy was picked up. Coy Wire's progress was hindered to the point where he is only good at special teams now. During his rookie year, in which he played a lot, he showed a lot of promise. Who knows what kind've player Coy would've become if Lawyer never came to Buffalo. What would've come of Aaron Schobel if the Bills would've signed a free agent to take his spot?

 

This year is refreshing. I love the fact that the Bills are finally, truly, rebuilding. Building towards something special, I hope.

[Gordio]

RunTheDamnBall sez: "The difference is we beat cream puffs at the end of 04. "

 

And what cream puffs might those be?  I seem to recall us beating some good teams like the Seahawks (38 - 9) in thier house.  They won their division and went to the play offs that year.    We also beat jacksonville save for a bad pushed out of bounds call at the very end.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I expect great things this year.  Go BILLS.  Just Jonesin' for Ws ...

773352[/snapback]

 

 

The seahawks went 8-8 that year & had no business being in the playoffs. They got bounced out by the Rams another 8-8 team at their own house in the 1st round

[RuntheDamnBall]

RunTheDamnBall sez: "The difference is we beat cream puffs at the end of 04. "

 

And what cream puffs might those be?  I seem to recall us beating some good teams like the Seahawks (38 - 9) in thier house.  They won their division and went to the play offs that year.    We also beat jacksonville save for a bad pushed out of bounds call at the very end.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I expect great things this year.  Go BILLS.  Just Jonesin' for Ws ...

773352[/snapback]

Seahawks already pointed out, 8-8. They were no great shakes. We also beat the QB-less Browns, the 49ers, the vaunted Rams, and Arizona that year. We got humiliated at a mediocre Baltimore, and got served against New England twice.

 

We didn't beat Jacksonville. We weren't good enough to put up more than ten points against them. Just as we weren't good enough to put up enough points to beat Pittsburgh's third string. That team was rightly blown up and Bledsoe was rightly given the heave-ho. We were paper tigers, just as Miami is this year. Both teams have Mularkey in common. I feel much better about the position the new staff is putting this team in.

[ganesh]

I disagree strongly. It is clearly a rebuilding year.

 

20 new players from last year

 

all draft picks make the team

 

What in heavens would you call a rebuilding year?

 

53 new players?

773516[/snapback]

 

Disagree. We might have had 20 new players on the roster. But all of them are not necessarily rookies. Some of them are experienced players like Folwer, Reyes and Bowen.

 

All draft picks made the team, because our draft picks were NEED picks. They were not picked on the "Best player available" formula to sit behind an established veteran and learn. GOing into the draft we did not have a starting SS, so picked one in the 1st round. We did not have a starting DT, so we drafted McCargo.

 

A rebuilding year is one where you start with a rookie QB, a new OL on the offense and definitely know that your season is not going anywhere soon.

 

Some of the recent rebuilding years were

1. Colts with Peyton Manning, when they went 3-13. They did not yet have the full pieces of the puzzle. They drafted James with the #5 pick that year.

2. Jacksonville with Leftwich : They started slowly and have built a powerhouse in the last 3 years. They went 6-10 in 2002.

3. The Bengals with Carson Palmer: They started out with him as their #1 pick and have built the team around him, drafting a solid OL and drafting their own WRs/RBs. They have spent money on the defnese in FA.

[stuckincincy]

Disagree.  We might have had 20 new players on the roster. But all of them are not necessarily rookies.  Some of them are experienced players like Folwer, Reyes and Bowen. 

 

All draft picks made the team, because our draft picks were NEED picks. They were not picked on the "Best player available" formula to sit behind an established veteran and learn.  GOing into the draft we did not have a starting SS, so picked one in the 1st round. We did not have a starting DT, so we drafted McCargo.

 

A rebuilding year is one where you start with a rookie QB, a new OL on the offense and definitely know that your season is not going anywhere soon.

 

Some of the recent rebuilding years were

1. Colts with Peyton Manning, when they went 3-13. They did not yet have the full pieces of the puzzle. They drafted James with the #5 pick that year.

2. Jacksonville with  Leftwich : They started slowly and have built a powerhouse in the last 3 years.  They went 6-10 in 2002.

3. The Bengals with Carson Palmer: They started out with him as their #1 pick and have built the team around him, drafting a solid OL and drafting their own WRs/RBs.  They have spent money on the defnese in FA.

773978[/snapback]

 

I wonder what the average # of "new faces" on the roster is across the league.

 

The B'gals show 13 on their roster - 6 draftees, 1 supplemental draftee, and 6 FA's. And 3 from last year's practice squad - don't know if that counts, if so, the total is 16.

Edited September 15, 2006 by stuckincincy

[John from Riverside]

Had we done the smart thing and start the process LAST year then when TKO came back there wouldnt be so much of an issue.....