Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Something to add here: with his 70 rushing yards vs. New England, Willis knocked Greg Bell out of the Bills Top 10 career rushing list. For that, he deserves our thanks. 771265[/snapback] So true. So sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I can't beleive I read the whole thing. Nobody mentioned that the Pasties game plan was to stop WM. Which they managed in the second half. I didn't agree with the 4th down call, make it cool, miss it momentum change. Momentum change, it's big in football. Regardless, WM is the best we have. I'm looking forward to watching him Sunday. Squish the fish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonz Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 never saw priest holmes do that on 4th and short. instead, you'd see priest do some crazy leap and go over the top. 771271[/snapback] That's what seperates a good back from a franchise back. Its hard to put a finger on, but with backs like Tiki Barber, Priest Holmes, Warrick Dunn, LT, S. Alexander, and a few more they give you that extra 10%. When its 4th and goal, game on the line, guys like this will do EVERYTHING possible to get in, where as an average back pile up the numbers during the game, but when push comes to shove, when that extra yard or two is needed, they just don't come through nearly as much. Maybe it's this way because the BIlls have sucked for so long, but mentally when I see WM get the ball on a play like the one from the last week I simply don't get very excited when he doesn't make it because I dont expect him to. I don't put WIllis in the class of asshats like TO, but he honestly isn't very far behind. Unless this guy gets his mojo back and really shows the Bills fans he is giving it his all, all but the most hardend Bills fans will turn on him. Where is that extra effort - Stiff arms, jukes, POWER????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 That's what seperates a good back from a franchise back. Its hard to put a finger on, but with backs like Tiki Barber, Priest Holmes, Warrick Dunn, LT, S. Alexander, and a few more they give you that extra 10%. When its 4th and goal, game on the line, guys like this will do EVERYTHING possible to get in, where as an average back pile up the numbers during the game, but when push comes to shove, when that extra yard or two is needed, they just don't come through nearly as much. Maybe it's this way because the BIlls have sucked for so long, but mentally when I see WM get the ball on a play like the one from the last week I simply don't get very excited when he doesn't make it because I dont expect him to. I don't put WIllis in the class of asshats like TO, but he honestly isn't very far behind. Unless this guy gets his mojo back and really shows the Bills fans he is giving it his all, all but the most hardend Bills fans will turn on him. Where is that extra effort - Stiff arms, jukes, POWER????? 771324[/snapback] Hard to put ones finger on I agree...I seem to recall the 2004 season where Alexander started to achieve the reputation of not giving that 10% extra. The Seahawks stalled at the goalline costing them at least 1 game(against the Rams). There were even rumours that Seattle would give up on him at the time. Barber (until last year) also had a bit of a reputation for not giving the extra & getting the job done. I don't see how you can even mention Dunn in the same group. I think we will find that if things start going our way...WM will show that extra 10% as he did in 2004 & early 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Ive pretty much made it known I think Tiki Barber is the best rb in the nfl, however before the past 2 seasons he had an extreme penchant for fumbling so much so giants fans hated the guy and wanted to give ron dayne a chance to take tikis place. Rb's like LT for instance as much hype as he got has 2 seasons with sub 4ypc and also had early struggles holding onto the football. Alexander was never known as a great short yardage back as dibs pointed out. I dont think warrick dunn is on or near the level of some of these guys. It's also really not hard to put a finger on what Priest Holmes did. Unless its hard running behind the likes of Willie Roaf/Brian Waters/Casey Weigham/Will Shields/John Tait. Not that Holmes wasnt a good back, but when you have that good of an offensive line coupled with a qb who had seasons of 4000+ yards passing you're going to get rushing yards. Now I'm not gonna say Willis is on the level of a Tiki barber or LJ, but hes definitly in that 8-15 range which is more then ok by me. I'll take a Curtis Martin Esque consecutive 1000 yard seasons without huge rushes, any year. In order to put up rushing stats you need more then just good speed, and being able to hit a hole. You need to have patience, know your blockers in front of you and know the schemes used for blocking. Be aware of cutback lanes and have good vision to be aware of defenders looking to clog lanes. I dont care what kind of hole you hit. If you cant stretch the defense forcing them to keep the safeties off the los. You will more often then not fail when trying to establish a run game, without the threat of a passing game. Oh little factoid: Ladannian Tomlinson has 14+ runs of 20+ yards in the last 2 seasons and so does Willis Mcgahee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 never saw priest holmes do that on 4th and short. instead, you'd see priest do some crazy leap and go over the top. 771271[/snapback] I meant in General, on 4th and short you have to bring the thunder up in there no matter what is happening. I wrote that in reference to his running style in general. Since you're looking for more than 1 yard on 1st or 2nd down, patience in letting a play develop is key. It's crazy to think about patience and letting it develop on 4th and short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 It's crazy to think about patience and letting it develop on 4th and short. 771496[/snapback] It certainly is. And it happens with detriment all around the league. DC Buddy Ryan smacking OC Kevin Gilbride should have been a model for the ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I meant in General, on 4th and short you have to bring the thunder up in there no matter what is happening. I wrote that in reference to his running style in general. Since you're looking for more than 1 yard on 1st or 2nd down, patience in letting a play develop is key. It's crazy to think about patience and letting it develop on 4th and short. 771496[/snapback] No, in general and in every single particular instance without question you run depending on what is in front of you. Usually, running hard into the line is the best bet because you can usually get a yard by doing that. After looking. But no good back does that first, they look first. No good back running full speed into the line on THAT play would have got a yard. They would have lost a yard or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 That's what seperates a good back from a franchise back. Its hard to put a finger on, but with backs like Tiki Barber, Priest Holmes, Warrick Dunn, LT, S. Alexander, and a few more they give you that extra 10%. 771324[/snapback] Ummm, thats why the giants have Brandon Jacobs take virtually every short yardage and gaolline carry. Also why the Buccs had Alstott with Dunn, and the Falcons paired Duckett with Dunn. Dunn's a good back, but hes not great. And he cant run short yardage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 No, in general and in every single particular instance without question you run depending on what is in front of you. Usually, running hard into the line is the best bet because you can usually get a yard by doing that. After looking. But no good back does that first, they look first. No good back running full speed into the line on THAT play would have got a yard. They would have lost a yard or two. 771510[/snapback] All i'm saying is that on 1st and 10, you look to find the cutback or seam that may develop into a 10+ yard run...on 4th and 1, with the defense in a goaline package you take what is given you and you hit it lights out. I'm in no way saying that you just pile into the back of Villarial and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 All i'm saying is that on 1st and 10, you look to find the cutback or seam that may develop into a 10+ yard run...on 4th and 1, with the defense in a goaline package you take what is given you and you hit it lights out. I'm in no way saying that you just pile into the back of Villarial and hope for the best. 771518[/snapback] That's actually what Willis did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 That's actually what Willis did. 771520[/snapback] The Pats blew that play up regardless of what was supposed to happen. Wilfork knocked Fowler into the backfield, the right side of the line fired out but McGahee had to sidestep Fowler and Wilfork and Davis shot through to clean up the play. It was a total breakdown top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 The Pats blew that play up regardless of what was supposed to happen. Wilfork knocked Fowler into the backfield, the right side of the line fired out but McGahee had to sidestep Fowler and Wilfork and Davis shot through to clean up the play. It was a total breakdown top to bottom. 771529[/snapback] Exactly. And Willis took the handoff, looked, saw that, slid along the line. Took what the defense gave him and then hit it hard. And he came an inch away from making it. The criticism of him on that play is completely unwarranted IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Exactly. And Willis took the handoff, looked, saw that, slid along the line. Took what the defense gave him and then hit it hard. And he came an inch away from making it. The criticism of him on that play is completely unwarranted IMO. 771530[/snapback] I think we're debating the same point because I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I think we're debating the same point because I agree 771532[/snapback] Well, sheesh. Change your mind then. Who wants to debate a guy that agrees with you? Besides, it was 3rd and 1. I had missed your post about giving Willis a chance with this new staff and I agree. He will have a great year I think in this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Exactly. And Willis took the handoff, looked, saw that, slid along the line. Took what the defense gave him and then hit it hard. And he came an inch away from making it. The criticism of him on that play is completely unwarranted IMO. 771530[/snapback] But he didn't make it. The best back in the league has got to get that tough yard everytime. What would Earl have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 But he didn't make it. The best back in the league has got to get that tough yard everytime. What would Earl have done? 771539[/snapback] Jason Lee would have been splattered on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 "Players from up north"? Where's that come from? Apart from his self-promoting arrogance, I think another reason McGahee rubs me the wrong way is that he comes off as a hired hand - nothing more than a guy on the payroll. When I think of Kelly, Thurman, Reed, and yes, Bruce Smith, I think of players with a real love for their team who took pride in being part of the spirit and tradition of THE BUFFALO BILLS. 770462[/snapback] Umm, you could also think of guys who didn't have free agency around for their whole careers, and certainly had their share of disputes with the team (Bruce Smith? Oh, yeah, he never held out, or skipped on training camp some... And he was great with the kids... ). Who knows if these guys would have left if they could have earlier on, and teams were as aggressive back then as they are now about acquiring FAs. People have a tendency to look at the past, far more than the present, with rose-colored glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 But he didn't make it. The best back in the league has got to get that tough yard everytime. What would Earl have done? 771539[/snapback] Well, since his retirement from the National Football League in 1985 he has carved out quite a career. Earl Campbell currently serves as President of Earl Campbell Meat Products, Inc. which proudly manufactures and sells Earl Campbell's ® Smoked Sausage and other wonderful food products and barbeque sauce. Plus since he's over 50 now, he prob wouldn't have gotten that yard either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichFan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 You need to optimize the package for the situation. You don't use a back like WM on a 4th and 1. That doesn't make WM a bad running back, it just means that at this point in his career he is not as well suited to the situation as ATrain. WM showed some real upside in the game. With this O-Line, however, ATrain's versatility and better recognition of when to use power/when to use finesse would probably yield more productivity. That is a frustration we'll have to cope with all season. WM is the man and needs the time this season to mature into a more versatile back (or seeya). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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