dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 How many asinine posts do we need on this board trashing WM without any basis? Although normally I would appreciate a quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet, the facts are the facts. The guy asked me a question and I answered it with the facts. 769861[/snapback] i think the problem is that in this sort of conversation, the trashers and celebrators self select themselves into their respective categories and become ideologues about the issue at hand. he's not great, and he's not terrible. the truth lies somewhere in between. as for me, i'll go with the story that the bills are a mediocre team with a mediocre running game and a decent (i.e., better than mediocre) running back who can't transcend the mediocre circumstances he finds himself in. in other words, put him on the giants, and he's not gonna match tiki's production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 i think the problem is that in this sort of conversation, the trashers and celebrators self select themselves into their respective categories and become ideologues about the issue at hand. he's not great, and he's not terrible. the truth lies somewhere in between. as for me, i'll go with the story that the bills are a mediocre team with a mediocre running game and a decent (i.e., better than mediocre) running back who can't transcend the mediocre circumstances he finds himself in. in other words, put him on the giants, and he's not gonna match tiki's production. 769875[/snapback] How well did O.J. do before we got a decent line in front of him? Speaking of Tiki (who I think is a great back), you may recall that the Giants spent a first round draft choice on Ron Dayne while Tiki was there. It was not until the Giants upgraded their line that Tiki became one of the best backs in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 How well did O.J. do before we got a decent line in front of him? Speaking of Tiki (who I think is a great back), you may recall that the Giants spent a first round draft choice on Ron Dayne while Tiki was there. It was not until the Giants upgraded their line that Tiki became one of the best backs in the league. 769891[/snapback] but he was damn productive from the moment he arrived there, and he didn't have any all pros blocking for him. dare i say it, but the giants have had mostly stiffs and ancient plodders up front for years. they drafted dayne because they wrongly believed that barber was a little guy who couldn't run inside and was fragile. history has proven accorsi wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 but he was damn productive from the moment he arrived there, and he didn't have any all pros blocking for him. dare i say it, but the giants have had mostly stiffs and ancient plodders up front for years. they drafted dayne because they wrongly believed that barber was a little guy who couldn't run inside and was fragile. history has proven accorsi wrong. 769904[/snapback] Accorsi was always very quarterback oriented as well. He once said that the most important player on a football team is the qb, and that the second most important is the backup qb. Interesting theory imo, whereas it worked for some, and others won the superbowl primarily because of Ols and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 but he was damn productive from the moment he arrived there, and he didn't have any all pros blocking for him. dare i say it, but the giants have had mostly stiffs and ancient plodders up front for years. they drafted dayne because they wrongly believed that barber was a little guy who couldn't run inside and was fragile. history has proven accorsi wrong. 769904[/snapback] Out of curiousity, do you believe that the Bills offensive line these past few years has been as good as the Giants' o-line? By the way, speaking of production (since your brought it up), which Buffalo Bills running back was the quickest to gain 2,000 yards in his career? Hint: He did it while running behind a piss poor offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Out of curiousity, do you believe that the Bills offensive line these past few years has been as good as the Giants' o-line? By the way, speaking of production (since your brought it up), which Buffalo Bills running back was the quickest to gain 2,000 yards in his career? Hint: He did it while running behind a piss poor offensive line. 769912[/snapback] the giants line was about as bad as the bills line circa 2000 for years. re getting to 2000 yards the fastest, i can't believe we're bringing this up again, but since i absolutely and positively think it's necessary to include receiving yards, thurman thomas was the fastest one. in any event, i can see him play with my own eyes. my eyes tell me the following: he's pretty good, but he's not great. again, he doesn't fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Out of curiousity, do you believe that the Bills offensive line these past few years has been as good as the Giants' o-line? By the way, speaking of production (since your brought it up), which Buffalo Bills running back was the quickest to gain 2,000 yards in his career? Hint: He did it while running behind a piss poor offensive line. 769912[/snapback] p.s. joe cribbs did it measurably faster as well: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/CribJo00.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 the giants line was about as bad as the bills line circa 2000 for years. re getting to 2000 yards the fastest, i can't believe we're bringing this up again, but since i absolutely and positively think it's necessary to include receiving yards, thurman thomas was the fastest one. in any event, i can see him play with my own eyes. my eyes tell me the following: he's pretty good, but he's not great. again, he doesn't fumble. 769915[/snapback] We are talking about it because you brought up production. Thanks for your back handed acknowledgment that WM was the fastest to rush for 2,000 yards. You really did not answer my question regarding Giants v. Bills line these past few years. Of course, you and I both know that the Giants line is and has been much better since 2000 and certainly since WM has been in the league. The Bills line has been pretty bad for about 10 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 How many asinine posts do we need on this board trashing WM without any basis? Although normally I would appreciate a quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet, the facts are the facts. The guy asked me a question and I answered it with the facts. 769861[/snapback] Wish you, and some others were as patient with JP, and make excuses for him, like you do Willis. Knee injury or not, Willis is an average back in this league, bordering dime-a-dozen territory. On top of that, the dude admits he thought it was third down???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 Wish you, and some others were as patient with JP, and make excuses for him, like you do Willis. Knee injury or not, Willis is an average back in this league, bordering dime-a-dozen territory. On top of that, the dude admits he thought it was third down???? 769956[/snapback] Have you read my posts about JP? P.S. No he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 We are talking about it because you brought up production. Thanks for your back handed acknowledgment that WM was the fastest to rush for 2,000 yards. You really did not answer my question regarding Giants v. Bills line these past few years. Of course, you and I both know that the Giants line is and has been much better since 2000 and certainly since WM has been in the league. The Bills line has been pretty bad for about 10 years now. 769942[/snapback] whatever. i'm not backhandedly acknowledging anything. joe cribbs was a far superior player to mcgahee in his first two years, and the case is pretty much closed. the giants line was weak in 01, and in 2003 was one of the worst lines in recent memory -- worse even than the bills that year. petitgout was an outright disaster at LT that year. it was weak in 04, and started to get better in 05 with the infusion of guys like snee. i get to see them pretty much every week, and it was a problem for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 whatever. i'm not backhandedly acknowledging anything. joe cribbs was a far superior player to mcgahee in his first two years, and the case is pretty much closed. the giants line was weak in 01, and in 2003 was one of the worst lines in recent memory -- worse even than the bills that year. petitgout was an outright disaster at LT that year. it was weak in 04, and started to get better in 05 with the infusion of guys like snee. i get to see them pretty much every week, and it was a problem for a while. 769972[/snapback] You still have not answered the question. Are you saying that the Bills' line has been better than the Giants' line these past few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 You still have not answered the question. Are you saying that the Bills' line has been better than the Giants' line these past few years? 769973[/snapback] you really wanna know?? 1999 - bills 2000 - giants 2001 - about a draw, but i'll give it to the giants. 2002 - draw 2003 - bills 2004 - bills 2005 - giants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Have you read my posts about JP? P.S. No he didn't. 769964[/snapback] Over the offseason, yes I did. You and others acted like JP should be the second coming already, meanwhile Willis is in year 3 (4 if you count his year off, like some want to do when JP was injured), and the excuses fly for why he can't average more then 3 yards a carry. On top of that, he has this habit of not being very good in short yardage. Willis has a terrible time seeing the field, he doesn't read his blockers right, has the stamina of an 80 year old, and his football intelligence seems borderline brutal. He was a pretty pick, I understand, but people have been heaping praise on him long before it was due. I'm a fan of Willis because he's a Buffalo Bill, I'm just sick of the double standards around here. Especially when it's a fact, RB's can step in and excel, while QB's need time to mature. (some more than others) P.S.- Didn't he say "I wasn't worried, I thought it was 3rd and 1" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 You still have not answered the question. Are you saying that the Bills' line has been better than the Giants' line these past few years? 769973[/snapback] speaking of addressing issues, you don't seriously think that mcgahee was better in his second & third years on the bills payroll than cribbs and thomas were in their first two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 you really wanna know?? 1999 - bills 2000 - giants 2001 - about a draw, but i'll give it to the giants. 2002 - draw 2003 - bills 2004 - bills 2005 - giants 769977[/snapback] You really think so? Oh well. I never realized just how good our has been I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 You really think so? Oh well. I never realized just how good our has been I guess. 769987[/snapback] do you speak from any knowledge re the giants, or are you just makin' it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 speaking of addressing issues, you don't seriously think that mcgahee was better in his second & third years on the bills payroll than cribbs and thomas were in their first two? 769981[/snapback] Thurman Thomas is one of my favorite Bills ever. He should be in the Hall of Fame. I would have to say that TT was the best all round back that we have ever had and maybe in the history of the NFL. So the answer is TT over WM. As for Cribbs, that is a closer call. I have not thought about him in a while. He was very good until he left the Bills to go to Birmingham (as I recall). As for comparing him to WM, I really could not say definitively who is/was better at this stage in their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Thurman Thomas is one of my favorite Bills ever. He should be in the Hall of Fame. I would have to say that TT was the best all round back that we have ever had and maybe in the history of the NFL. So the answer is TT over WM. As for Cribbs, that is a closer call. I have not thought about him in a while. He was very good until he left the Bills to go to Birmingham (as I recall). As for comparing him to WM, I really could not say definitively who is/was better at this stage in their careers. 769995[/snapback] you know, i remember cribbs, and he was a hell of a player for 4 years. it's too bad things fell apart for him re the contract stuff, because he would have ended up being a bills great. he was great his first two seasons -- those were some of my favorite football memories as a 14-15 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 do you speak from any knowledge re the giants, or are you just makin' it up? 769991[/snapback] I do not watch them as often as I do the Bills. I also do not break down the Giants film as I do with the Bills. Yet, whenever I have watched them (which has been more than a lot of other teams), the Giants' o-line has opened up some pretty good holes compared to what our rbs have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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