FU Toronto

[BILLS02138]

Could fans in Toronto ever show the same affection for the Bills and running back Willis McGahee that devoted Buffalo fans do?

 

NEVER

 

The Star

 

Would Buffalo Bills ever move to Toronto?

 

86-year-old owner of NFL franchise foe of relocation But new owner might be tempted in post-Wilson era

 

Sep. 7, 2006. 01:00 AM

MORGAN CAMPBELL

SPORTS REPORTER

 

The owners of the Leafs and the Jays have finally admitted in public that they plan to work together to lure an NFL franchise to Toronto.

 

Larry Tanenbaum of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment has even said he's ready to accommodate a team and is waiting for the league to give him the word.

 

He might be waiting a while, since the NFL already has 32 teams and the league has said it has no plans to expand soon.

 

But what about relocation?

 

Since 1988 five NFL franchises — the Cardinals, Rams, Raiders, Browns/Ravens and Oilers/Titans — have changed cities.

 

It's pure conjecture right now, but the slimmest of possibilities exists that the next team to relocate might wind up in Toronto.

 

With an 86-year-old owner who has expressed no clear plan for the franchise for after he dies, an address less than 90 minutes from Toronto, and a stadium lease that expires in less than a decade — could that team be the Buffalo Bills?

 

Yesterday team officials weren't prepared to talk about the possibility of the NFL in Toronto, much less the Bills moving there.

 

"The question about Toronto is an NFL question, not a local team question," said Bills spokesperson Scott Berchtold.

 

Though Berchtold and Russ Brandon, the Bills' VP of business operations, said the team has no plans to move, the team does have a relatively old stadium, the impetus behind most NFL relocations.

 

Thirty-three-year-old Ralph Wilson Stadium has forced the team to consider moving before. But they didn't consider it long.

 

In 1998 the Bills faced a pair of developments that threatened their tenure at Ralph Wilson Stadium in suburban Orchard Park. First was the expiration of their 25-year lease on the park, second was the stadium's condition. The building needed more seats and new luxury boxes, and although state government had pledged $63 million (all figures U.S., the Bills wouldn't qualify for the grant unless they could find $11 million on their own.

 

If the team couldn't raise the money through premium ticket sales, the only other choice would have been to find a new city. But Berchtold says moving was never an option.

 

"At the time nobody in the organization was thinking about moving," he said, adding that the team signed a 15-year lease at Wilson Stadium in 1998. "We were all concentrating on $11 million and making that goal. I don't know anyone in the organization, from (owner) Mr. Wilson on down who ever thought about leaving Buffalo."

 

Not only was 86-year-old owner Ralph Wilson against moving in 1998, he has also voted against every relocation bid that has come up since he has owned the Bills.

 

But even the team's top staff doesn't know what plans — if any — Wilson has for the team for after he dies.

 

"We have no idea what he's going to do," Berchtold said. "You'd have to ask Mr. Wilson. He's been asked that question before, but he's never really answered it."

 

Wilson is committed to other small markets — this year he joined a committee tasked with making the league's revenue-sharing agreement friendlier to small market franchises. But there's no guarantee a new owner would feel the same way, especially with a huge market less than two hours away.

 

According to Nielsen Media, Buffalo is the 49th-largest television market in the U.S. If Toronto were included in those rankings it would place fifth, behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Philadelphia.

 

Other Buffalo businesses have already noticed Toronto's drawing power. Last month Buffalo's urban radio station, WBLK, sponsored a concert by soul songstress Anita Baker at Ontario Place. This month it's holding a contest to meet R&B sensation Beyonce Knowles after her concert — in Toronto.

 

The Bills realize thousands of Canadians cross the border for their home games, and they plan to keep building the popularity of the Bills brand in the GTA.

 

But they plan to do it from Buffalo.

 

"We've made strides in southern Ontario in our ticket (sales) and marketing program," Brandon said. "Southern Ontario is part of our marketing plan and it always has been."

[stephenjames716]

BS

[PromoTheRobot]

Wishful thinking from a place where they play football all wrong. Where the hell would they play? Rogers Ctr/Skydome? All 50,000 seats large? How's that support for the Argos? 10,000? What makes you think an NFL team would do better?

 

PTR

[Chef Jim]

If there is any relocating it will be to LA, not Toronto.

[Bash_Gash]

Could fans in Toronto ever show the same affection for the Bills and running back Willis McGahee that devoted Buffalo fans do?

 

NEVER

 

The Star

 

Would Buffalo Bills ever move to Toronto?

 

86-year-old owner of NFL franchise foe of relocation But new owner might be tempted in post-Wilson era

 

Sep. 7, 2006. 01:00 AM

MORGAN CAMPBELL

SPORTS REPORTER

 

The owners of the Leafs and the Jays have finally admitted in public that they plan to work together to lure an NFL franchise to Toronto.

 

Larry Tanenbaum of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment has even said he's ready to accommodate a team and is waiting for the league to give him the word.

 

He might be waiting a while, since the NFL already has 32 teams and the league has said it has no plans to expand soon.

 

But what about relocation?

 

Since 1988 five NFL franchises — the Cardinals, Rams, Raiders, Browns/Ravens and Oilers/Titans — have changed cities.

 

It's pure conjecture right now, but the slimmest of possibilities exists that the next team to relocate might wind up in Toronto.

 

With an 86-year-old owner who has expressed no clear plan for the franchise for after he dies, an address less than 90 minutes from Toronto, and a stadium lease that expires in less than a decade — could that team be the Buffalo Bills?

 

Yesterday team officials weren't prepared to talk about the possibility of the NFL in Toronto, much less the Bills moving there.

 

"The question about Toronto is an NFL question, not a local team question," said Bills spokesperson Scott Berchtold.

 

Though Berchtold and Russ Brandon, the Bills' VP of business operations, said the team has no plans to move, the team does have a relatively old stadium, the impetus behind most NFL relocations.

 

Thirty-three-year-old Ralph Wilson Stadium has forced the team to consider moving before. But they didn't consider it long.

 

In 1998 the Bills faced a pair of developments that threatened their tenure at Ralph Wilson Stadium in suburban Orchard Park. First was the expiration of their 25-year lease on the park, second was the stadium's condition. The building needed more seats and new luxury boxes, and although state government had pledged $63 million (all figures U.S., the Bills wouldn't qualify for the grant unless they could find $11 million on their own.

 

If the team couldn't raise the money through premium ticket sales, the only other choice would have been to find a new city. But Berchtold says moving was never an option.

 

"At the time nobody in the organization was thinking about moving," he said, adding that the team signed a 15-year lease at Wilson Stadium in 1998. "We were all concentrating on $11 million and making that goal. I don't know anyone in the organization, from (owner) Mr. Wilson on down who ever thought about leaving Buffalo."

 

Not only was 86-year-old owner Ralph Wilson against moving in 1998, he has also voted against every relocation bid that has come up since he has owned the Bills.

 

But even the team's top staff doesn't know what plans — if any — Wilson has for the team for after he dies.

 

"We have no idea what he's going to do," Berchtold said. "You'd have to ask Mr. Wilson. He's been asked that question before, but he's never really answered it."

 

Wilson is committed to other small markets — this year he joined a committee tasked with making the league's revenue-sharing agreement friendlier to small market franchises. But there's no guarantee a new owner would feel the same way, especially with a huge market less than two hours away.

 

According to Nielsen Media, Buffalo is the 49th-largest television market in the U.S. If Toronto were included in those rankings it would place fifth, behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Philadelphia.

 

Other Buffalo businesses have already noticed Toronto's drawing power. Last month Buffalo's urban radio station, WBLK, sponsored a concert by soul songstress Anita Baker at Ontario Place. This month it's holding a contest to meet R&B sensation Beyonce Knowles after her concert — in Toronto.

 

The Bills realize thousands of Canadians cross the border for their home games, and they plan to keep building the popularity of the Bills brand in the GTA.

 

But they plan to do it from Buffalo.

 

"We've made strides in southern Ontario in our ticket (sales) and marketing program," Brandon said. "Southern Ontario is part of our marketing plan and it always has been."

764610[/snapback]

 

 

 

WITHOUT the Toronto or canadian fans, your team would have dissapeared from Buffalo a long time ago. YOU should be thanking us not dissing us.

[jarthur31]

If the league ever gives Toronto a franchise you can bet it's so that Bills move elsewhere or have moved.

[Arkady Renko]

WITHOUT the Toronto or canadian fans, your team would have dissapeared from Buffalo a long time ago. YOU should be thanking us not dissing us.

764701[/snapback]

I think being appreciative of Canadian fans and not being happy with speculative talk up North about bringing the Bills to Toronto are not mutually exclusive.

[jad1]

WITHOUT the Toronto or canadian fans, your team would have dissapeared from Buffalo a long time ago. YOU should be thanking us not dissing us.

764701[/snapback]

 

And without the Bills, you Canadian fans would be left with only CFL games to attend. YOU should be thanking US instead of dissing us and fantasizing about stealing our team.

 

It's the least you could do for the NY taxpayers who put up the $63 million to keep the team in the area, for you to enjoy.

[I 90]

Let me be the first to apologize for the same yearly nonsense. It is a predictable story on the eve of the first NFL game akin to ground breaking reports on hay fever in the spring or Elvis sightings in mid August.

 

Think of it as a commercial to geek up we Canadian fans. Or an unpaid advertisement for the civic minded Ted Rogers and the Leaforaptor owners.

 

Ted Rogers, who will never be forgiven here for replacing the Golf Channel with MTV.

 

 

.

[Whammy Weenie]

Boy, what a great reporter this guy is. First off, Ralph's age is referred to 3 times in this article- that alone is annoying. "The 86 year-old owner... 86 year-old Ralph Wilson", blah blah. Oh, by the way, it's WRONG! Ralph is 87, and will turn 88 in October. Secondly, he says that in 1998 the stadium needed more seats? Uh, the seating capacity was reduced from 80,000 to 73,000. Maybe he meant "suites," but hey, he got Ralph's age wrong 3 times, so why worry about little things like facts.

[loadofmularkey]

WITHOUT the Toronto or canadian fans, your team would have dissapeared from Buffalo a long time ago. YOU should be thanking us not dissing us.

764701[/snapback]

 

Thanks.

 

Now that that's out of the way, it seems like this comes up at least once a year. Somebody at the Star or Globe and Mail writes a column about how, "Gosh wouldn't it be great if the NFL were here? And hey friends and neighbors, don't know if you've noticed, but there's an NFL team playing in a very small market just across the lake! We're a big city with lots of theaters and glass buildings! Maybe...they could play here someday..."

 

And everybody gets all riled up and hot and bothered, the topic of professional football in Canada is bantered about, the fact that Toronto is a trendy sports town is brought up because everyone really only cares about the Leafs, a Canadian or two gets touchy because after all S. Ontario is a very important part of the Bills' fanbase, etc., etc., etc.

 

Then a few days pass, then a few weeks and just like that the topic is magically gone again until another columnist is sitting around in the dog days of summer with the Jays well out of it, thinking, "Oh here's something I could write about. Could the Bills ever move to Toronto? Perfect!"

 

So I guess I'll be posting this again next summer.

[Pyrite Gal]

As my buddy Rodney says, "Why can't we all just get along?"

 

I am biased in this by the fact I do not have season tickets to the Bills and the great fun of tailgating before the game and the joy of sharing my team with several tens of thousands of other fanatics has dampened a bit by the driving hassle and running the ticket taking barricades which modern life adter 9/11.

 

I only attend games on occaision these days.

 

However, when it looked like we might lose our team current Ciy of Buffalo Development Commissioner Rich Tobe working for then County Exec Forski cut the stadium deal which still keeps the Bills here.

 

However, I proposed at that time when the seeming alternative was losing the Bills to whomever so to have a deal with Toronto to share the Bur Tor Bills.seemed like the best we could do.

 

 

We woild not want such a dea; right now so we can have 8 home dates and we can a team all to ourselves.

 

However, such a deal offers a number of advantages such that if we get uver being selfish perhaps we should just git er done.

[drnykterstein]

If the are going to be anywhere... welll .. I guess it only adds an hour on to the drive...

[millbank]

For certain the group in Toronto have the means to attain a team. They are of the Worlds wealthiest peopling not just Canada's. Who knows what the future holds regarding the Bills ownership But the saying that anything can be had for a price is most often true and sadly loyalty to the pocket book, trumps loyalty to people. This group in Toronto do want to NFL team and just as those who said Toronto would never receive a NBA franchise were wrong (despite a the negatives, Raptors attendance amongst leagues highest), so shall be those who think Toronto will not obtain a NFL franchise.

We can only hope this group does not flash at Buffalo ownership more money than they can refuse or team be in situation they must accept it.

Make no mistake other NFL owners rather than share money with another team, would rather receive more money. Buffalo does need an imaginative ownership group that can better optimize the market that is present in Western New York - Southern Ontario, just as the Sabres need do, and there is no reason this is not possible.

Who knows in year’s ahead just maybe Buffalo - Toronto may enjoy a similar intense rivalry that New York- Boston does and that would be a good thing

 

Having said that, here is perhaps a more real perspective from Steve Simmons

 

NFL in Toronto

[smokinandjokin]

Let's stop talking about this b.s. with the Bills moving to Toronto and start planning the Sabres-Leafs game at the Ralph. Now THAT would be a spectacle. 70,000+ in the stands, probably more then half of them Leafs fans...That would be outta control.....I LOVE the idea......

[ajzepp]

I've posted this before, and I've also said to take it for what it's worth....

 

I used to go to a psychic back in the early 90s based on a referral from a few friends at work. This lady seemed to be the real deal, and over the past 12-14 years there have been things she's "seen" accurately. Well I happened to ask her something about the Bills winning the Superbowl, and she said something like, "yes, they will eventually win it, but when I see the team listed in the newspaper it is listed as 'Tor/Buf'." I asked her what she meant and she said that the team would take on Toronto as a partial designation and the Bills would become the "Toronto-Buffalo Bills". I don't remember her saying the team would physically move, but she felt pretty strongly that this "merge" would happen at some point.

 

Again, take it for what it's worth....I'm just the messenger.

[Pyrite Gal]

That NHL game which was held outdoors amidst shockingly cold temeperatures was a wpmderfil thing to see. Holding it at the Ralph might lose the intimacy which was part of what made the outdoor game fun, but as a one-timer I certainly would be game.

 

Its not like HSBC arena is all that intimate a location anyway.

[makbeer]

First of all, stop hating on Canada/Canadians and our ability to support an NFL team.

 

The Argos get a sh------- fan base because the CFL is garbage, not because we can't support a team.

 

Toronto could do much more to push the Bills organization towards a superbowl than the city of Buffalo could - financially, and in terms of attracting free agents.

 

That said, as a lifelong Bills fan living in toronto, I don't want the Bills here. The Bills BELONG in Buffalo. I'd love Toronto get a NFL team, but even if they did I'd probably be a Bills fan first, and a Toronto fan second.

 

The Buffalo Bills are a blue collar franchise, Toronot is a white collar city. The franchise and the city just don't match. It would be like the Pittsburgh Steelers moving to California.

[stephenjames716]

WITHOUT the Toronto or canadian fans, your team would have dissapeared from Buffalo a long time ago. YOU should be thanking us not dissing us.

764701[/snapback]

 

wow, speaking of delusional. you have got to be kidding. maybe, maybe 10% of the fans are from America Junior, the rest are die hard bills fans from the USA.

[RochBillsFan]

agreed....

 

Rochester as well...

 

WITHOUT the Toronto or canadian fans, your team would have dissapeared from Buffalo a long time ago. YOU should be thanking us not dissing us.

764701[/snapback]