Thailog80 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I thought you were crazy to want to start JP against Arizona. Well I was wrong man.....I have to agree with you now. I don't think he'll take the poundings that Drew has. New Englands O Line improved vastly after DB left.......ours might improve by subtraction also. Sorry ICE man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Want to make this the "sorry" thread? Steven in Md, you knew all along that TD was garbage. I am sorry to have ever defended this dunce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Nice apology. But by now, ICE is probably campaigning for the Queen of England to play QB for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I thought you were crazy to want to start JP against Arizona. Well I was wrong man.....I have to agree with you now. I don't think he'll take the poundings that Drew has. New Englands O Line improved vastly after DB left.......ours might improve by subtraction also. Sorry ICE man. 55234[/snapback] Not so fast, i think Losman will develop better for the Bills as a QB if he follows the Vick/Pennington sit and learn to be a better QB method and then make the playoffs your second year rather than rushing him along faster than his background or talent merits and potentially make him into Todd Collins. I agree that this team is clearly not capable of winning by overdepending on the gunslinging of Bledsoe, but this fact does not mean that it can win by overdepending upon a rookie at QB or that this rookie will develop best and benefit most from being thrown in behind this Tulane like O-line. Granted that players learn things playing at NFL speeds they do not learn watching, but JP strikes me as someone who will profit most in player development by: 1. Really learning how a good NFL offense flows and works. He needs to replicate what Kelly learned which allowed him to call plays in the K-Gun and the best way for him to learn this is by sewing his ear to Sam Wyches mouth in the press box and really learn how the Os of both teams work. 2. Focuses on his own head learning the game rather than focusing on learning how to motivate and teach Travis Henry which he will have to focus on if he might play in the game. I take Kyle Boller at his word that his season ending injury last year was great for his development because their were simply things you can learn when you have no chance of playing that you cannot learn when you are playing. 3. Works on his own mechanics so he does the same thing every play rather than exhibiting the bad habit he picked up under the run at Tulane of throwing off the wrong foot or improvising to make the play after a blocking breakdown. I am not saying that QB scrambling talent has not effect on sack outcomes. One need only look at Doug Flutie's example to see that. However, one need only look at the Flutie example to see that there is a lot more to being a successful QB than running talent. I hope that JP focuses this year on improving his game and not on simply playing for the short term benefit of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Not so fast, i think Losman will develop better for the Bills as a QB if he follows the Vick/Pennington sit and learn to be a better QB method and then make the playoffs your second year rather than rushing him along faster than his background or talent merits and potentially make him into Todd Collins. I agree that this team is clearly not capable of winning by overdepending on the gunslinging of Bledsoe, but this fact does not mean that it can win by overdepending upon a rookie at QB or that this rookie will develop best and benefit most from being thrown in behind this Tulane like O-line. Granted that players learn things playing at NFL speeds they do not learn watching, but JP strikes me as someone who will profit most in player development by: 1. Really learning how a good NFL offense flows and works. He needs to replicate what Kelly learned which allowed him to call plays in the K-Gun and the best way for him to learn this is by sewing his ear to Sam Wyches mouth in the press box and really learn how the Os of both teams work. 2. Focuses on his own head learning the game rather than focusing on learning how to motivate and teach Travis Henry which he will have to focus on if he might play in the game. I take Kyle Boller at his word that his season ending injury last year was great for his development because their were simply things you can learn when you have no chance of playing that you cannot learn when you are playing. 3. Works on his own mechanics so he does the same thing every play rather than exhibiting the bad habit he picked up under the run at Tulane of throwing off the wrong foot or improvising to make the play after a blocking breakdown. I am not saying that QB scrambling talent has not effect on sack outcomes. One need only look at Doug Flutie's example to see that. However, one need only look at the Flutie example to see that there is a lot more to being a successful QB than running talent. I hope that JP focuses this year on improving his game and not on simply playing for the short term benefit of fans. 55342[/snapback] Absolutely, postively, 100% full-goose-bozo accurate. Putting JP in would be a Wannestadt move...indecision wrapped in a white flag. I undertstand the frustration, but to play JP would be short-sighted and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Not so fast, i think Losman will develop better for the Bills as a QB if he follows the Vick/Pennington sit and learn to be a better QB method and then make the playoffs your second year rather than rushing him along faster than his background or talent merits and potentially make him into Todd Collins. I agree that this team is clearly not capable of winning by overdepending on the gunslinging of Bledsoe, but this fact does not mean that it can win by overdepending upon a rookie at QB or that this rookie will develop best and benefit most from being thrown in behind this Tulane like O-line. 55342[/snapback] Umm.. I am sorry, but 'learn' what by sitting ? - Watching a disastrous offense ? - Watching a QB who cannot scramble ? (this is not DB bashing). JP can scramble and can learn nothing from watching DB. - Watch how other teams get blitz-happy against us ? He can only learn to avoid if he is in the middle of the action. We will have to win 10 of the last 13 to make the playoffs. With the Pats and Jets in our division, we can almost kiss Playoffs goodbye for this year. Might as well use this year to put JP in as soon as possible so he learns on the job this year and we do well next year. Else we are setting ourselves up for a build job next year as well. I am so sick of this 'wait till next year' philosophy that I now know how perennial loser teams like the Cardinals must be feeling. We are a sucky team. The past two years have been particularly bad for us fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Absolutely, postively, 100% full-goose-bozo accurate. Putting JP in would be a Wannestadt move...indecision wrapped in a white flag. I undertstand the frustration, but to play JP would be short-sighted and wrong. 55359[/snapback] Playing your QB "of the future" is shortsighted? On the contrary, it is exactly the opposite. We can sit and wait, watching DB drool all over himself for the rest of the season, or we can begin to develop an understanding about JPs talents. You are making no sense Paco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Absolutely, postively, 100% full-goose-bozo accurate. Putting JP in would be a Wannestadt move...indecision wrapped in a white flag. I undertstand the frustration, but to play JP would be short-sighted and wrong. 55359[/snapback] That's a bunch of poopoo. Their are PLENTY of QB's that start off as rookie's during a lost season. Just to name a few Brian Leftwich, Peyton Manning, our own Joe Fergy. Do you think these guys are bad QB's and is Jack Del Rio, Mora, or Lou Saban bad coaches? Listen to what Peyton says which is start off in your rookie year . Sick of Focking Bledslow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 That's a bunch of poopoo. Their are PLENTY of QB's that start off as rookie's during a lost season. Just to name a few Brian Leftwich, Peyton Manning, our own Joe Fergy. Do you think these guys are bad QB's and is Jack Del Rio, Mora, or Lou Saban bad coaches? Listen to what Peyton says which is start off in your rookie year . Sick of Focking Bledslow 55396[/snapback] Yep !! I hear big Ben Rothlesberger (sp?) is doing pretty well in Pittsburgh. How many years of experience does he have under hsi belt ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Nice apology. But by now, ICE is probably campaigning for the Queen of England to play QB for the Bills. 55317[/snapback] I am arranging a visit for the Queen to my office - she's coming next Thursday - maybe I'll ask her if she'd like to suit up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 And prepare to have JP in a cast again, when Travis misses a block and JP gets creamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Not so fast, i think Losman will develop better for the Bills as a QB if he follows the Vick/Pennington sit and learn to be a better QB method and then make the playoffs your second year rather than rushing him along faster than his background or talent merits and potentially make him into Todd Collins. 55342[/snapback] Is that the Palmer way too? How's he doing this year? What about Manning, he did pretty well his second year after starting his first? Not to mention, Vick still hasn't developed into a QB, if it weren't for his feet (which he didn't learn to use sitting on the sideline his first year) he's be an average QB right now. My point is, there are different ways of bringing QBs along. You can point to the successes and failures of both. I don't think starting JP the last 5 or so games of this season could do anything but help the kid get ready for next year. There would be no presure on him as our season will be shot by then anyway and our last 5 oppenents appear to be pretty weak. And I'd also disagree with the QB scrambling talent effecting sack outcomes. With the exception of Drew, the league leaders in sacks the last few years have almost all been scramblers...Vick, Culpepper and McNabb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Is that the Palmer way too? How's he doing this year? What about Manning, he did pretty well his second year after starting his first? Not to mention, Vick still hasn't developed into a QB, if it weren't for his feet (which he didn't learn to use sitting on the sideline his first year) he's be an average QB right now. My point is, there are different ways of bringing QBs along. You can point to the successes and failures of both. I don't think starting JP the last 5 or so games of this season could do anything but help the kid get ready for next year. There would be no presure on him as our season will be shot by then anyway and our last 5 oppenents appear to be pretty weak. And I'd also disagree with the QB scrambling talent effecting sack outcomes. With the exception of Drew, the league leaders in sacks the last few years have almost all been scramblers...Vick, Culpepper and McNabb. 55509[/snapback] So in summary it is a crap shoot. and it may work to bring him in now or it may not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 And prepare to have JP in a cast again, when Travis misses a block and JP gets creamed. 55498[/snapback] And Bledsoe has to come back in. All I'm saying, folks, is you don't start Losman until you know the season is over. Maybe you're all right. Maybe the season IS over...but technically it's NOT, and blind as I may be, as long as there's a chance...as long as we're still in it...you keep trying to advance yourself, day in and day out, game after game...you NEVER GIVE UP AND YOU NEVER SAY DIE. The problem...and I'll get flamed red-ass for this...is that so many people here don't want to take that position because all they see is the pending doom. Instead of taking on the battle and fighting the pending doom, they want to invite the pending doom in for some tea and cumpets so it's less painful to take. I can understand that sentiment. The French built a country around that sentiment. But you guys want to quit right now? Three games in and you want to throw in the towel? This team doesn't get paid to decide after three games that the season is over and we may as well start from scratch. Pussification at it's best. Nice. Real nice. Flame on, but the season isn't over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Who's Poojer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I thought you were crazy to want to start JP against Arizona. Well I was wrong man.....I have to agree with you now. I don't think he'll take the poundings that Drew has. New Englands O Line improved vastly after DB left.......ours might improve by subtraction also. Sorry ICE man. 55234[/snapback] Only a marginal fan would throw away a season on a rookie QB. I don't care who it is a college QB can't get it done in his first season. This team is gonna get straightened out as soon as we replace Coy Wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohninMinn. Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Only a marginal fan would throw away a season on a rookie QB. I don't care who it is a college QB can't get it done in his first season. This team is gonna get straightened out as soon as we replace Coy Wire. 55549[/snapback] Oops I forgot to log in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Only a marginal fan would throw away a season on a rookie QB. I don't care who it is a college QB can't get it done in his first season. This team is gonna get straightened out as soon as we replace Coy Wire. 55549[/snapback] stevestojan john get your head out of the sand and look around at this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Only a marginal fan would throw away a season on a rookie QB. I don't care who it is a college QB can't get it done in his first season. This team is gonna get straightened out as soon as we replace Coy Wire. 55549[/snapback] - Asking for a change does not make me a marginal fan - Wanting a rookie QB does not imply throwing the season away. We are not exacting charting an unabated path to the playoffs with oru approach right now. - What do we want done this season anyway ? Do you think we will win 10 of the next 13 games, assuming a 10-6 record is required to even think of the playoffs ? - One Coy Wire is not going to change anything. Neither is one QB change. We need to make changes whenever we see consistently sloppy play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Absolutely, postively, 100% full-goose-bozo accurate. Putting JP in would be a Wannestadt move...indecision wrapped in a white flag. I undertstand the frustration, but to play JP would be short-sighted and wrong. 55359[/snapback] Ordinarily I would be agreeing with Paco....as I do on most things.... But in this case.....there are a multitude of reasons why the smart move is to bring JP Losman at the earliest possible time THAT HE IS HEALTHY..... - First...you have models going both ways on a rookie starting his first year and either making him better or worse....for instance....the QB from the bengals does not look like he has benefitted on the bench....while Payton Manning (another 1st round pick) struggled his first year and improved quickly...... - Second....I dont know if this Buffalo franchise can afford to wait.....the fans of the bills have become malcontent over having talent but always sitting at home for the playoffs.... BUT....I think there must be a general understanding amonst us fans that Losman IS GOING to struggle....we should expect it.....and we should lower our expectations accordingly...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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