Defending TD

[Mile High]

To bad the douche bag couldn't hire the right coach and attempt to fix the oline.

[bill in Livonia]

TD put his own interest ahead of the team. His coaching choices were yes men who brought in incompetent assistants. I see his player aquisions as only average. He was partial to people with a Pittsburg background or connection.

He was a cold hearted S.O.B.

 

 

Other than those factors he didn't like or fit in with the community well. An illustration of that were his relations with the press and critical fans.

GO BILLS!

[Adam]

As long as we are a better team at the end of the season than when we started, I'll be very happy with Levy and Jauron. Next year, we should contend for the wildcard

[Fixxxer]

TD knew how to get the ingredients but he sure as hell didn't know how to cook the meal.

[Ray]

His downfall was not his picking talent it was choosing GW and MM over the likes of John Fox, C Weis, etc... He picked some of the worst head coaches in the franchises' history. That was the problem--and it was a BIG problem. 31-49 is all that matters.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

His downfall was not his picking talent it was choosing GW and MM over the likes of John Fox, C Weis, etc...    He picked some of the worst head coaches in the franchises' history.  That was the problem--and it was a BIG problem.  31-49 is all that matters.

Yep, it was the choice of coaches. And then the choice of assistant coaches.

[Typical TBD Guy]

Fire Away!

760398[/snapback]

 

I think you're being too optimistic with Gandy, Villarial, Shelton, Kelsay, and Anderson. All 5 range from mediocre to - at times - terrible.

 

Also, I'd like to welcome everyone to take a hard, honest look at TD's 5 draft classes.

 

2003 was an excellent draft; TD deserves the credit for that one. But outside the 1st 2 rounds of 2001 and the 1st round of 2004, the rest of his picks were total garbage.

 

In particular, check out his picks on the d-line: 3 starters (Schobel, Kelsay, and Anderson) but only 1 (Schobel) worth a damn....IMO.

 

Now check out the OL: after 5 years of drafting, all that remains from TD's drafting is a backup C/G (Preston).

 

You HAVE to find some good players outside the first 2 rounds, and with the exception of Crowell and McGee - TD couldn't do it.

 

So now he's gone. Oh yeah, and then there's that head coaching thing. And the 31-49 record.

[Dawgg]

1st round picks....4

QB Losman: Gave up the next year's first rounder for Losman. Has not yet shown he can start on a week to week basis. Perhaps this is the year.

RB McGahee: Passed on a healthy Larry Johnson to take Willis McGahee.

WR Evans: Very good receiver, we will see if he can handle the role of a #1.

CB Clements: Good player who had one good year but has regressed of late.

 

2nd round picks....2

DE Schoebel: Agreed. Just under pro bowl level.

DE Kelsay: Nothing to write home aboutl

 

3rd round picks....2

DT Anderson: Nothing to write home about.

OLB Crowell: Agreed. Very solid player.

 

4th-7th round picks....1

CB/KR McGee: Donahoe's best draft pick, considering it was a 4th rounder.

 

Free Agents....8

FB Shelton: See AKC's post on blocking (or lack thereof) in the backfield

RG Villarrial: Old, on the downside of his career and cannot stay healthy.

LT Gandy: Average at best.

ILB Fletcher: Just under pro bowl level. Great signing.

OLB Spikes: Great signing, any idiot would sign him, not indicative of TD's genius.

FS Vincent: Dumped by Philly in favor of younger, more athletic players. Should have been bypassed by the Bills if they were smart.

K Lindell: Good kicker.

LS Schneck: Yay! A long snapper.

 

UDFA....2

RT Peters: Up & coming star? Time will tell.

P Moorman: Excellent pickup.

 

 

 

 

For my 1000th post I thought I would add a bit of controversy to the wall.

Many here are starting to get enthused about the upcoming season with most predicting 7, 8 or 9 wins for us.  Considering there is a totally new(apart from ST) coaching regime, this implies that the talent level on the team is not too bad & in fact could be quite good. 

This being the situation, do all you people realize you are basically saying that TD did at the very least a reasonable job of player talent evaluation?

That's right, TD left this team with a lot of decent-good players & a young core of potential greats.

Let's look at TDs starters for the 2006 season.

7 of 11 offensive

9 of 11 defensive

3 of 3 specialists

 

1st round picks....4

QB Losman:  Unproven but this off-season has give many here reason for hope.  Shows glimmers of greatness.

RB McGahee:  The only player apart from Spikes that the media recognize as a legitimate stud.

WR Evans:  Has shown he is the real deal....pro bowl this year?

CB Clements:  PRO BOWLER

 

2nd round picks....2

DE Schoebel:  Just under pro bowl level.

DE Kelsay:  OK to this point, could step up in the new system.

 

3rd round picks....2

DT Anderson:  3rd year & looks well suited to new system.  Will hold his own.

OLB  Crowell:  Very solid player.

 

4th-7th round picks....1

CB/KR McGee:  PRO BOWLER

 

Free Agents....8

FB Shelton:  Looked great in 2004

RG Villarrial:  Super solid(when uninjured)

LT Gandy:  Most believe was maligned last season, showing himself to be very solid.

ILB Fletcher: Just under pro bowl level.

OLB Spikes: PRO BOWLER

FS Vincent:  Led the team in INTs last season.

K Lindell:  Very Solid

LS Schneck:  PRO BOWLER

 

UDFA....2

RT Peters:  Up & coming star.

P Moorman: PRO BOWLER

 

I know I've been a bit rose coloured glasses here & I have also been a little disingenuous perhaps but.....there is no escaping the fact that TD was not too bad at evaluating talent.

O.K.  Fire Away!

760398[/snapback]

[Dibs]

Hi all, thanks for the congrats etc.

Please people, don't lock me into the 'TD defender' category.

Though I do think we have some really good talent(& potential talent), I was purposefully a bit rose coloured glasses on some of the one liners I wrote for the players.

I was also quite disingenuous only addressing the starter. I think having 20 new players out of 53 is perhaps more indicative of how it really is.

 

Please forgive me for those who might have gotten annoyed at this thread.

I was getting the impression that a few on the wall were perhaps getting a bit antsy leading up to the start of the new season & figured this was a great way to vent & get the last of the frustrations out about the past regime before we truly head into the new regime.

 

I hope everyone takes it as the tongue in cheek attempt to help vent frustrations that I intended.....if not....too bad I guess.

 

I am truly ready for some football!

GO BILLS!!!

[Pirate Angel]

Losmans footwork and timing seemd to be aweful under last years regime plus he never would of had to earn his spot. The new coaching staff seems to be pushing the right buttons on him- therefore if mm stayed JP would have been a dissasastrous bust, now this coaching staff has him headed to be a franchise QB

[I 90]

His downfall was not his picking talent it was choosing GW and MM over the likes of John Fox, C Weis, etc...    He picked some of the worst head coaches in the franchises' history.  That was the problem--and it was a BIG problem.  31-49 is all that matters.

760634[/snapback]

 

He was the consumate crowd pleaser when it came to hiring coaches. Gung ho Greggo as an antidote to laid back, players coach Phillips. Soft spoken offensive minded Mullarky to smooth out the taste of the now unhinged defensive "genious" (ask Snyder). Would Fox followed by Weis have looked any different ?

 

And those trades. Nobody put Buffalo on ESPN more than he. Sold out the stadium. I bought it all. To repeat, 31-49 is all that matters.

[Pyrite Gal]

Umm. I'd say the media widely recognizes him a s a loud-mouth underacheiver. Most of the media loves to mock him. He's done little to warrant much favorable press except make a successful comeback.

 

760429[/snapback]

 

 

Dibs may comcede to wearing rose colored glasses with his assessment of TD, but this statement offered in opposition to Dibs view looks like you are wearing dark colored glasses that obscure your view of reality.

 

The quote itself simply states an internal contradiction that a player who you say mounted a successful comeback is also an underachiever (huh?).

 

It also is simply a contradiction of reality.

 

1. The expectations of McGahee after he suffered a devastating knee injury in a Bowl game was that he likely faced ayear long if not more time comeback before he would be draftable and there was a fair chance his career was over.

 

2. However, McGahee worked out diligently and under the guidance of that idiot Rosenhaus actually put on a show of publicly working out that surprised many and led to the sense that though he still would need tons of rehab and time he likely would be drafted mere months after the injury.

 

3. The media went from generally expressing sorrow and shaking its head going tsk tsk too bad but stuff happens when he was hurt, tp being impressed by the fact he was even walking without a cane by draftime, to laughing at Rosenhaus for faking the phone call during the draft but giving McGahhe a free ride of it but being impressed that he got a 1st rpund pick.

 

Since then, the media as usual is a mixed bag rather than having a consensus on WM. Folks seem impressed that he is the fastest Bill ever to rush for 2000 yards and he obviously commands press attention from NFL Network and other places. The baby momma comment was stupid and most of us oldsters shake our heads with disdain at this comment, but most recognize that the NFL and WM are going after a kids world and a demographic around the teen years to the mid-20s so the fact that us oldsters think what he said is stupid, that actually adds to his appeal to the youth market. If anyinw is laughing its WM all the way to the bank.

 

At any rate, though anyone who sleeps with WM is clearly an idiot, those of us who care more about football than personalities if it does not impact the team's play are quite pleased to have an RN who finished 10th in the leafue in rushing yardage on our team and demand and reasonably expect better production from him this year when he will get his second full season starting if he is lucky enough to avoid injury.

 

Maybe you don't like him and that is fair and I hope you do not have sex with him. However, as far as football goes I simply do not see what you are basing your WM assessment on.

[BRH]

Yes Donahoe did make some sexy draft day moves (Bledsoe trade, McGahee, trade for Losman pick), found a few diamonds in the rough (McGee, Peters, Crowell) and brought in some high-profile free agents (Spikes, Milloy, Adams). 

 

snip snip

 

Honorable mention for this category: Telling us to save our postage in regard to letter-writing calling for GW's job. 

 

Honorable, honorable mention: His first year in Buffalo he made a point over telling the fans that "You'll never see my face in the media guide".  And he was right...until last season.  When a nicely done bio with a glossy picture of Smiling Tom somehow made in there.  Don't know the particulars behind it, don't know if he had anything to do with it, all I know is...it took a few years, but his face found its way into the media guide eventually. 

 

Honrable, honorable, honorable mention: Defending Mike Williams this past offseason to his real media buddies.  Seriously?  Really??  TD, give it up my man. 

 

Whew. 

 

That's why I'm not a TD fan.

760446[/snapback]

What a great post. I agree with every word.

 

How about honorable honorable honorable honorable mention: having his henchmen seize any signs and banners that might in some way cast some sort of negative reflection on him?

[loadofmularkey]

What a great post.  I agree with every word.

 

How about honorable honorable honorable honorable mention:  having his henchmen seize any signs and banners that might in some way cast some sort of negative reflection on him?

761091[/snapback]

 

Thanks!

 

Yeah I actually thought about the Fire Tom movement (or lack thereof thanks to Capt. McCluskey & Co. at OBD) about 10 minutes after I posted. Thanks for bringing it up. That really had potential to be a disaster for TD. ESPN, Saturday night...like those cameras weren't going to pick out "Fire Tom" and "Fire Mularkey" signs.

[Shamrock]

DE Schoebel:  Just under pro bowl level.

DE Kelsay:  OK to this point, could step up in the new system.

 

O.K.  Fire Away!

760398[/snapback]

 

If TD drafted Chad Kelsay Steelers 1999 and Chris Kelsay 2003 do you reckon he would have entertained Bo Schobel 2004 or Matt Schobel 2002? Conspiracy theory...

[Alaska Darin]

I didn't realize a guy like Dick Juaron was such an expensive hire !!???

760460[/snapback]

He wasn't. Coaches who don't have proven success usually aren't - which is why they tend to end up in places like Buffalo.

[Orton's Arm]

For my 1000th post I thought I would add a bit of controversy to the wall.

Good. I like talking about TD. In particular, I like examining TD's failure to build a good offensive line. During his five years in Buffalo, TD used eight picks in the first two rounds of the draft on offensive skill position players:

 

2001: Travis Henry (2nd round)

2002: Josh Reed (2nd round)

2003: Drew Bledsoe (1st round pick traded away)

2003: Willis McGahee (1st round)

2004: Lee Evans (1st round)

2004: JP Losman (2nd round)

2005: JP Losman (1st round)

2005: Roscoe Parrish (2nd round)

 

During that same timespan, he used just one pick in the first two rounds on an offensive lineman:

 

2002: Mike Williams (1st round)

 

Does this drafting record make sense? TD was handed a roster that included offensive skill position players like Eric Moulds and Antowain Smith. But other than a declining Ruben Brown, there weren't any offensive linemen who provided the team with much of anything when TD took over. When you have some good, long-term offensive skill position players already, but no offensive linemen, why create an 8:1 ratio for early round skill position players to offensive linemen?

 

I'm okay with making some investment in offensive skill position players. TD needed a quarterback, and I wouldn't have minded him using an early draft pick on a young one. But I take issue with his strategy of investing heavily in the #2 and #3 WR positions, and in trying to find an upgrade for Antowain Smith, while at the same time sharply limiting his investment in the offensive line. In addition, I question why he waited until 2004 to draft his QB of the future, when Rob Johnson was released after 2001.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

 

I'm okay with making some investment in offensive skill position players.  TD needed a quarterback, and I wouldn't have minded him using an early draft pick on a young one.  But I take issue with his strategy of investing heavily in the #2 and #3 WR positions, and in trying to find an upgrade for Antowain Smith, while at the same time sharply limiting his investment in the offensive line.  In addition, I question why he waited until 2004 to draft his QB of the future, when Rob Johnson was released after 2001.

761449[/snapback]

 

Interesting thoughts, though I see some psychological tics are hard to shake. I love the subjunctive: "TD needed a quarterback, and I wouldn't have minded him using an early draft pick on a young one." Well, he did use such a pick. Does this mean you did not mind? Or do not mind? Or are not out of your mind?

 

As for why he waited until 2004 to draft a young QB, two words: Drew Bledsoe. Although it is hard for us to remember/admit it, there were big hopes that DB solved the QB problem for several years to come. Some may claim to have known all along, but it was not until midway through 2003 that it was clear the time to draft a QB was sooner rather than later...

[Vinny4sum]

Let us use a management example to grade the GM.

 

If tomorrow at McDonalds the MGR is fired and a new one is hired. The new MGR meets with the drive up kid, the flipper boy and the frie girl and lights a fire under them. Then the next day the group of employees have the most productive flipping, frying drive-up day ever! Who gets the credit the old manager for hiring the employees or the new manager for getting the best of his team?

 

I go with the new guy who knew how to deal with people.

[Albany,n.y.]

Moorman was a street free agent via NFL Europe, not an undrafted from college free agent. He spent 2 camps with Seattle & played 2 years in NFL Europe prior to signing with the Bills.