Pyrite Gal Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 starting ST play is more important than back-up play to Levy and it appears Jairon as well. I tjink that most fans are addicted to the idea that position play is the thing and thus they overemphasize the value of back-up position play as a factor in determining the relative value of a player. Thus there are now posts which present the problem of the choice of final cuts of WRs being a choice between keeping Aiken or keeping Davis and they now give the nod to Davis because of his outstanding TD tonight. I think Tasker was right insaying tonight that there was no way they cut Aiken, as to do would send a clear message that ST is not a priority for this team or even very important if they cut a player who is regarded as being one of the lead ST contributors on this team even though he has never shown great production as a position player during his career. The braintrust realizes that the O and the D on this team are works in progress at best and if this team is gonna post Ws (a critical priority for this team given they have not made the playoffs in 6 seasons and given the Golden Boys having no gurantee how long they will be on this planer) it is gonna be because as in 2004 an outstanding ST performance allowed this team to post a winning record though the D, O and ST suffered a production outage in the last game against Pitts. Even more strangely a post listed Wilson as definitiely making this team which he might if he was also productive on ST in addition to catching every thring thrown his way. Yet, despite some great postion performance by Wilson, at best he is 7th or 8th of the WRs on the depth chart and even if he somehow sticks because the Bills keep 7 WRs he will see little time on the field except in garbage time as a position player. I don't see why some folk do not get it yet that if you want to use the word just with any player it should be referring to a player being "just" a good back-up position player rather than just an ST player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 starting ST play is more important than back-up play to Levy and it appears Jairon as well. I tjink that most fans are addicted to the idea that position play is the thing and thus they overemphasize the value of back-up position play as a factor in determining the relative value of a player. Thus there are now posts which present the problem of the choice of final cuts of WRs being a choice between keeping Aiken or keeping Davis and they now give the nod to Davis because of his outstanding TD tonight. I think Tasker was right insaying tonight that there was no way they cut Aiken, as to do would send a clear message that ST is not a priority for this team or even very important if they cut a player who is regarded as being one of the lead ST contributors on this team even though he has never shown great production as a position player during his career. The braintrust realizes that the O and the D on this team are works in progress at best and if this team is gonna post Ws (a critical priority for this team given they have not made the playoffs in 6 seasons and given the Golden Boys having no gurantee how long they will be on this planer) it is gonna be because as in 2004 an outstanding ST performance allowed this team to post a winning record though the D, O and ST suffered a production outage in the last game against Pitts. Even more strangely a post listed Wilson as definitiely making this team which he might if he was also productive on ST in addition to catching every thring thrown his way. Yet, despite some great postion performance by Wilson, at best he is 7th or 8th of the WRs on the depth chart and even if he somehow sticks because the Bills keep 7 WRs he will see little time on the field except in garbage time as a position player. I don't see why some folk do not get it yet that if you want to use the word just with any player it should be referring to a player being "just" a good back-up position player rather than just an ST player. 758277[/snapback] ....but.... if Davis is as good at ST as some here are saying(as good as Aiken), it would make sense to give the roster spot to him. He is young & still could evolve into a fast/deep WR threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 starting ST play is more important than back-up play to Levy and it appears Jairon as well. I tjink that most fans are addicted to the idea that position play is the thing and thus they overemphasize the value of back-up position play as a factor in determining the relative value of a player. Thus there are now posts which present the problem of the choice of final cuts of WRs being a choice between keeping Aiken or keeping Davis and they now give the nod to Davis because of his outstanding TD tonight. I think Tasker was right insaying tonight that there was no way they cut Aiken, as to do would send a clear message that ST is not a priority for this team or even very important if they cut a player who is regarded as being one of the lead ST contributors on this team even though he has never shown great production as a position player during his career. The braintrust realizes that the O and the D on this team are works in progress at best and if this team is gonna post Ws (a critical priority for this team given they have not made the playoffs in 6 seasons and given the Golden Boys having no gurantee how long they will be on this planer) it is gonna be because as in 2004 an outstanding ST performance allowed this team to post a winning record though the D, O and ST suffered a production outage in the last game against Pitts. Even more strangely a post listed Wilson as definitiely making this team which he might if he was also productive on ST in addition to catching every thring thrown his way. Yet, despite some great postion performance by Wilson, at best he is 7th or 8th of the WRs on the depth chart and even if he somehow sticks because the Bills keep 7 WRs he will see little time on the field except in garbage time as a position player. I don't see why some folk do not get it yet that if you want to use the word just with any player it should be referring to a player being "just" a good back-up position player rather than just an ST player. 758277[/snapback] Maybe. The thing is, there are 29 players who are not starters out of 53 counting the kicker and and punter. Several of the starters play special teams. Not every back-up does or needs to play special teams. The Bills have an abundance of pretty terrific ST players, as well as a great ST coach. And like I said in another thread, Andre Davis is very good as a ST gunner. If Wilson can do things that Aiken cannot do as a receiver, it's not out of the realm of possibility that an excellent ST player like Aiken could be released. I am not predicting it will happen, but it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 starting ST play is more important than back-up play to Levy and it appears Jairon as well. Agree with the sentiment in the rest of the post, but I think with the big cuts still coming that your opening statement remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Maybe. The thing is, there are 29 players who are not starters out of 53 counting the kicker and and punter. Several of the starters play special teams. Not every back-up does or needs to play special teams. The Bills have an abundance of pretty terrific ST players, as well as a great ST coach. And like I said in another thread, Andre Davis is very good as a ST gunner. If Wilson can do things that Aiken cannot do as a receiver, it's not out of the realm of possibility that an excellent ST player like Aiken could be released. I am not predicting it will happen, but it's possible. 758291[/snapback] I just can't see them cutting both leaders of the ST units, Wire and Aiken. Then again, perhaps it's presumptuous to think that Wire is getting the axe. I think they end up keeping 7 WRs; Evans, Price, Reed, Parrish, Aiken, Davis & Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 ....but....if Davis is as good at ST as some here are saying(as good as Aiken), it would make sense to give the roster spot to him. He is young & still could evolve into a fast/deep WR threat. 758287[/snapback] because we don't have 5 players like that already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsiepierski34 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Who's Jairon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Maybe. The thing is, there are 29 players who are not starters out of 53 counting the kicker and and punter. Several of the starters play special teams. Not every back-up does or needs to play special teams. The Bills have an abundance of pretty terrific ST players, as well as a great ST coach. And like I said in another thread, Andre Davis is very good as a ST gunner. If Wilson can do things that Aiken cannot do as a receiver, it's not out of the realm of possibility that an excellent ST player like Aiken could be released. I am not predicting it will happen, but it's possible. 758291[/snapback] I think what Aiken has that Davis in no way equals is two ywars of experience working as a leader under April of the #1 performing ST unit in the league/ In essence, in terms of how he seems to be viewed by decision-makers such as Marv and April (and likely by Jauron as well since he was hired by Marv after they developed a good relationship), Aiken is correctly viewed as contributing as much to the Bills getting Ws as virtually any starter on the team except for a few Pro Bowl level performers, I think it would be a big deal to see Jauron cut Aiken as is as likely to happen as if he were to cut a player like Kelsay or Crowell. In other words, I am prettu suire this will not happen. I think that the viewer is not looking at this the same way the Bills braintrust does if one simply views ST play and ability as simply a mechanistic function where a newbie like Davis or a developing player like Wilson can achieve being of the same ST value as Aiken because he tackles well or has a faster 40 time. Aiken presents a real world advantage to April in that he knows after two years fairly well what Aiken can do and cannot do and as he works to develop ST plays and approaches which are successful he can do a better job at doing this working to build around the strengths and weaknesses of Aiken rather than trying to build around the potential strengths and weaknesses of a Davis even if they appear relatively equal to (or even exceed slightly) those of Aiken. I hope Wilson has not used up his PS eligibility because I suspect this is going to be the only way he makes this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 This team has a plethora of deep threats -- Evans, Price, Parrish. Aiken provides a physical element at the position that nobody else possesses. I would still like to see him get some more shots in the offense. Watching him kick ass on special teams makes me wonder if he could be even more valuable than Josh Reed as down-field blocker. ....but....if Davis is as good at ST as some here are saying(as good as Aiken), it would make sense to give the roster spot to him. He is young & still could evolve into a fast/deep WR threat. 758287[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 starting ST play is more important than back-up play to Levy and it appears Jairon as well. I tjink that most fans are addicted to the idea that position play is the thing and thus they overemphasize the value of back-up position play as a factor in determining the relative value of a player. Thus there are now posts which present the problem of the choice of final cuts of WRs being a choice between keeping Aiken or keeping Davis and they now give the nod to Davis because of his outstanding TD tonight. I think Tasker was right insaying tonight that there was no way they cut Aiken, as to do would send a clear message that ST is not a priority for this team or even very important if they cut a player who is regarded as being one of the lead ST contributors on this team even though he has never shown great production as a position player during his career. The braintrust realizes that the O and the D on this team are works in progress at best and if this team is gonna post Ws (a critical priority for this team given they have not made the playoffs in 6 seasons and given the Golden Boys having no gurantee how long they will be on this planer) it is gonna be because as in 2004 an outstanding ST performance allowed this team to post a winning record though the D, O and ST suffered a production outage in the last game against Pitts. Even more strangely a post listed Wilson as definitiely making this team which he might if he was also productive on ST in addition to catching every thring thrown his way. Yet, despite some great postion performance by Wilson, at best he is 7th or 8th of the WRs on the depth chart and even if he somehow sticks because the Bills keep 7 WRs he will see little time on the field except in garbage time as a position player. I don't see why some folk do not get it yet that if you want to use the word just with any player it should be referring to a player being "just" a good back-up position player rather than just an ST player. 758277[/snapback] It is logic such as this that has kept Wire on this roster. So if a guy can play well but sucks at teams, he should be cut? What about depth? I want Coy gone. Like yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 It is logic such as this that has kept Wire on this roster. So if a guy can play well but sucks at teams, he should be cut? What about depth? I want Coy gone. Like yesterday. 758364[/snapback] I actually think it has been the Bills weakness at the safety position rather than his ST wrk which has jept him employed by the Bills. He got his starter job at S (a position he has never played before at any level of organized ball (because GW/Hray badly miscalculated how much there old buddy Jenkins had left. We then stretched a bunch to apply the cap room necessary to lure Milloy here as TD's twp FA signing to replace Wire as starting SS, Chad Cota and Ainsely Battle both suddenly retired after reaching agreement with us. Wire was made the ST captain (his attitude and commitment to charitable acts indicative of character were pretty good) however, I think he was poorly developed as a player because he often seemed to blow plays on ST as he tried to overcompensate for losing a starter's job (such as when he took an impossible angle according to Tasker to block a punt against the Bengals his second year and roughed the kicker giving them a 1st down which led to a TD which put the game in overtime. Certainly the Bills gave him credit for good ST play I do not think he deserved, but I think think the real problem was using him as a position player at a position where he did not have the pass coverage experience and wasted his development time trying to teach him pass coverage when they actually should have tried to turn him into the next Steve Tasker right from the start IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 I just can't see them cutting both leaders of the ST units, Wire and Aiken. Then Wire is not a leader of the ST unit. Last year he had 6 tackles on ST - and as many solo/primary tackles as penalties (3). Certainly the Bills gave him credit for good ST play I do not think he deserved, but I think think the real problem was using him as a position player at a position where he did not have the pass coverage experience and wasted his development time trying to teach him pass coverage when they actually should have tried to turn him into the next Steve Tasker right from the start IMHO. Well Smub - like death and taxes - at least I know our disagreement on CW will always be there... Trying to say now that it's not even Wire's fault for his lack of ST ability - that now even the fact that he isn't a ST star isn't his fault because he wasn't 'properly developed' is really kind of ridiculous. This is like saying the Bills wasted 'development time' on Chris Watson by trying to teach him pass coverage instead of being a premiere punt returner. What about all the other hundreds of ST studs in the history of the league - were they all specially chosen and carefully nurtured and developed from the start to be ST stars? Hell No! The opposite! How is it that guys like Stamer and Haggen and Aiken *somehow* mangaged to do it without being singled out to be the beneficiary of a plan to be 'developed' into a ST stud 'right from the start'. Those players did it because they have the skill and talent and instinct and attitude to do it - they are football players with the ability to compete and contribute at the NFL level. Steve Tasker wasn't some coaches pet project who was groomed to be a ST star - it was something intrinsic to him, not some development project. At some point you are going to have to stop blaming everybody except Wire himself for the fact that he just has never been any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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