ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Why wasn't stuff like this cut down BEFORE the storm? This story is from early August 2006! Yes 2006! I sure hope it is a priority now... Why wasn't it when the things were saplings? Heck... As a casual observer... I even noticed this abnormality on my only visit to NOLA some 15 years ago... I guess they needed time for the obvious (IMO) to blow over... With so many trees, who is to say what really blew apart the levees a year ago? A domino effect that could have caused much of the demise of the system... We will never know... All washed away in the mess. One thing for sure is, that a year later... Somebody has finally took notice. I am sure the "tree huggers" are saddened... What enviro "lobbies" would have road-blocked this initiative had it been started long before Katrina? Heck, why even let them get past the sabling stage... I guess it is all about who will maintain things and how much it costs... Nobody likes to think about crap like that until it is too late. Will we really know? And if somebody knew?... Who would man up to it? The answer is nobody... Because EVERYBODY is part of the prior incompetence. The storm happened... Now they need to get their act together... About 150 trees have recently been marked for removal on the land side of the Mississippi River levee as the Army Corps of Engineers presses forward with its politically sensitive campaign to cut all trees in New Orleans and East Jefferson that could topple during high water and potentially undermine levee stability. The initiative exploded into public view last month as contractors began chopping down trees that corps officials said threatened the stability of levees and floodwalls intended to keep Lake Pontchartrain at bay during a tropical storm or hurricane. Trees growing in the slopes and toes of the river levee could also uproot during high stages of the river and must come down as well, corps officials said. Toward that end, corps arborists and engineers began painting bright orange markings on trees in East Jefferson that must go, and will next mark offending trees on the New Orleans riverfront. For now, only trees on the land side of the levee will be removed, though some may ultimately come down on the water side as well, if they are growing in the levee itself. In most cases, engineers said, the batture provides ample space between the levee and the trees that grow along the water's edge. Project manager Michael Stout said Monday it isn't clear when that cutting will begin, or whether it will start in Jefferson or Orleans. "We are developing a riverfront cutting plan now," Stout said. "But getting trees off the (hurricane protection system) levees remains the priority. We are well aware that we are in the hurricane season." In mid-July, with little publicity and no community input, corps contractors cut down 370 trees in East Jefferson in less than four days. That triggered howls of protest and condemnation by residents, community groups and elected officials caught unawares by the chainsaws. Corps officials are taking greater pains to publicize future cuttings and have briefed Orleans officials about the 70 or so trees that will be removed this month along floodwalls and the lakefront levee in New Orleans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Another point... That seems to be lost on some people is why the heck does anybody need to be notified? Certain vegetation has been deemed to hinder the engineered structure... Case closed. There is no discusion of removal, it shouldn't be open to debate... Guys show up with chainsaws, cut the large stuff down and then perform routine mowing/cleaning ops... Is this the same crap that got NOLA into the mess? Cut the damn stuff down and move-on... What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromagnum Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Heck... As a casual observer... I even noticed this abnormality on my only visit to NOLA some 15 years ago... .[/i] Here's a popular mechanics article.Check it out EII, any good? http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/ea...html?page=1&c=y 755786[/snapback] Hey EII were you in this area in new orleans? This is where GWB was last year, when he personaly explored the damage from the hurricane/flood.. You can see the people next to him and the high flood waters, and actual fish floating down the streets... http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/...ion_fishing.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Hey EII were you in this area in new orleans? This is where GWB was last year, when he personaly explored the damage from the hurricane/flood.. You can see the people next to him and the high flood waters, and actual fish floating down the streets... http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/...ion_fishing.jpg 755830[/snapback] That looks like it is downtown... Canal or Esplanade???... Funny editing... I was only there once. I do have a Mustang float coat like daddy... It is red though, I guess if I fall in, red doesn't have the priority as survival orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromagnum Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 That looks like it is downtown... Canal or Esplanade???... Funny editing... I was only there once. I do have a Mustang float coat like daddy... It is red though, I guess if I fall in, red doesn't have the priority as survival orange. 755848[/snapback] In the post, I put a popular mechanics link article on katrina it's right above the fishlink in your post check it out, and is it informative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 In the post, I put a popular mechanics link article on katrina it's right above the fishlink in your post check it out, and is it informative? 755850[/snapback] Thanks... Oops, I didn't see that! I never waded though PM's coverage. I will now. What I am just saying is... What if one tree uprooted?... Here and there, would we ever know??... The "snowball" effect would be huge. How would you ever prove it? I distinctly remember NOLA making it out of the storm... Looking back, I even called my father in WNY the day before the storm hit and said "Keep watching, the Corps is gonna be front and center --- They are gonna take some heat." Not that I was the only one that knew this was coming... It is just strange and ery looking back a year ago... A total helpless feeling when you started to get reports AFTER the storm that supposely the "pumps were failing." Say what you will... This is just one working man's (my take) on situation that I feel was totally preventable... We get mired in the grand dynamics of the storm and every thing that followed. The link appears to be informative... Yet, I just can't get past the fact that it happened. I want to know the real reason those levees broke... My gut feeling tells me it is so, so simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 If trees really weakened the levees, there is only one logical and rational explanation GW Bush planted the trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 If trees really weakened the levees, there is only one logical and rational explanation GW Bush planted the trees 755882[/snapback] I pulled this out of CroMags link: FOUNDATION FAILURE The cause of breaches on the 17th Street and London Avenue canals remains a mystery. Over-dredging in the 17th Street Canal may have removed lining sediments near the floodwall’s sheet-pile wall, allowing water to percolate through deep levee soils. Swimming pools and other structures built too close to the barrier may have compromised its integrity by compressing its foundation. Who knows?... Does he like to swim in a pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromagnum Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 The massive roots systems searching and entangling and burrowing do damage. Highwater table, soil makeup, constant riverflow and wakes on a tidal system. Poor maintance, and neglect to improve levees that were found to be at risk. Well I built me a raft. And she's ready for floating. Old mississippi she's calling my name. catfish are jumping' paddle wheel pumping. BLACKWATER KEEP ROLLING ON PAST JUST THE SAME. Missisippi moon won't you keep on shining on me. http://www.katrinahelp.com/hurricane-katrina-4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 It strikes me an inordinate number of trees and vegetation that is NOW finally being cut. 350 went... 70 the next month... Those are massive numbers... How much more remain? Each one of those represent a compromise I know that they just aren't over reacting and cutting everything... If they are marked... There is DUE reason they go. Why now? Something this simple should have never been left to fester. Maybe because it is partly my job... I get so worked up about it. I just stand proud behind the fact that not one federallly maintained levee broke during the upper Miss flood of 1993... I just can't make heads or tails out of it. But it's not just a question of money, says Neil Grigg, a professor of civil engineering at Colorado State University. Levees - like roads and bridges - need constant attention, too. "Once the levee's built and it's in there, and people forget about it, as they will do, things happen to make its condition deteriorate." He enumerates some of those things: animals can burrow into it, weeds and trees can grow on the slopes, water can weaken it. "It needs a lot of maintenance and a lot of attention, continuously, if it's going to be something you can rely on. It's like these other infrastructure problems, it's not something you can just put in place and forget about it, it requires a lot of attention in the future." Civil engineers agree that the future of New Orleans must include a rigorous and regular levee maintenance program, and a more robust pumping system… and money to pay for it all. MIT Professor Rafael Bras recommends finding a way to increase the sediment that the Mississippi River once deposited to build up the land on which New Orleans sits. "What you have in New Orleans is a delta," he explains, "and if you do not supply the sediment to the delta, then, in essence, you have increased erosion and that erosion will endanger your situation further. One way of dealing with the vagaries of nature is to let nature help also by making sure we have enough sediment (as possible) getting to the delta." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 If trees really weakened the levees, there is only one logical and rational explanation GW Bush planted the trees 755882[/snapback] But only because he wanted to give them to the timber industry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 But only because he wanted to give them to the timber industry... 756041[/snapback] NO BLOOD FOR TREES!!! WHEN CLINTON LIED, NO TREES DIED!! WE ONLY INVADED IRAQ TO GET TREES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 In the Popular Mechanics piece, did you guys happen to notice it's written by one Benjamin Chertoff? That's right. His cousin is Michael Chertoff, secretary of Homeland Defense. He also wrote PM's 'Debunking 9/11' piece. I don't mean to say that Benjamin can't earn himself a living by writing. But you DON'T have him write a piece that purports to dissect the real problems of two of the biggest disasters in our history when his cousin is the one heading the department (Understood that HS was not around until after 9/11, and MC appointed later, it does reflect on the department). And that there's a lot of issues completely missing from the pieces... it begs the question. Was this piece bought and paid for by the govt too? When the media claims to be telling the Truth, do they smell the stench of their own bullsh-- as they prop up the establishment? When our leaders slam against other countries like pre-war Iraq, Russia, etc. for propaganda news that raises an eyebrow at best and is dubious at worst b/c of connections b/w the writer and said leaders.... don't they realize that when they do the SAME FUGGIN' THING, they come off as liars, hypoocrites and tyrants? Or do they (I guess correctly) assume that people are too tired from working their 60-hour a week jobs to really care that much? How are we different from every other country we view as bad b/c of the pervasiveness of their thought control over their people? We feel better than them b/c we have a piece of paper saying "Bill of Rights"? There's no such thing as credibility anymore. It is an alien concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 In the Popular Mechanics piece, did you guys happen to notice it's written by one Benjamin Chertoff? That's right. His cousin is Michael Chertoff, secretary of Homeland Defense. He also wrote PM's 'Debunking 9/11' piece. I don't mean to say that Benjamin can't earn himself a living by writing. But you DON'T have him write a piece that purports to dissect the real problems of two of the biggest disasters in our history when his cousin is the one heading the department (Understood that HS was not around until after 9/11, and MC appointed later, it does reflect on the department). And that there's a lot of issues completely missing from the pieces... it begs the question. Was this piece bought and paid for by the govt too? When the media claims to be telling the Truth, do they smell the stench of their own bullsh-- as they prop up the establishment? When our leaders slam against other countries like pre-war Iraq, Russia, etc. for propaganda news that raises an eyebrow at best and is dubious at worst b/c of connections b/w the writer and said leaders.... don't they realize that when they do the SAME FUGGIN' THING, they come off as liars, hypoocrites and tyrants? Or do they (I guess correctly) assume that people are too tired from working their 60-hour a week jobs to really care that much? How are we different from every other country we view as bad b/c of the pervasiveness of their thought control over their people? We feel better than them b/c we have a piece of paper saying "Bill of Rights"? There's no such thing as credibility anymore. It is an alien concept. 756055[/snapback] I don't know that this comment really responds directly to your post, but .... I was VERY impressed with Matthews ending his show this week by basically commending the media on the incredibly good job they did of reporting on Katrina. I must say, the man has chutzpah. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I was VERY impressed with Matthews ending his show this week by basically commending the media on the incredibly good job they did of reporting on Katrina. 756115[/snapback] This whole "One Year Later" thingy is more about he media's own self-importance than it is about the event itself. It is to the point of being nauseating. It is one thing to see whether there is progress in rebuilding, but I am seeing more and more stories about how the media covered the event, the impact of the media on the event, how great the media was during the event, personal diaries of the reporters who covered the event, etc. The event itself is secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I was VERY impressed with Matthews ending his show this week by basically commending the media on the incredibly good job they did of reporting on Katrina. 756115[/snapback] They were congratulating themselves a year ago as the city was flooding. It'd be "great job covering the devastation" and the next story would be about the piles of bodies at the Superdome, the children being raped, and the survivors turning to cannibalism to survive. Not to mention the reporter woman in the canoe in 6 inches of water. But, yeah, the media is really trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Not to mention the reporter woman in the canoe in 6 inches of water. 756228[/snapback] That was actually a month later, somewhere else, I believe. Funny as sh--, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 That was actually a month later, somewhere else, I believe. Funny as sh--, though. 756230[/snapback] I think it was in North Virginia where 6" is up to one's shoulders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Not to mention the reporter woman in the canoe in 6 inches of water. 756228[/snapback] Let's not forget the infamous Sean Penn incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I think it was in North Virginia where 6" is up to one's shoulders... 756257[/snapback] :fyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts