JDG Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Uh...Thanks. John's brilliant response was "Preston's not a rookie". A guy who has no starts in the NFL, is pretty much exactly that. Here are Duke's "highlights" from his first season (according to BB.com): .... Add to that a new offense and what is essentially a rookie QB. Thanks. 755994[/snapback] Good grief! How low are we going to put the bar for Losman? Or better yet, how far down do we need to put the bar in order for him to go over it? JP Losman is *third year* player. He had more regular season snaps as a rookie than Carson Palmer did. Last year he played in nine game. JP Losman is *not* "essentially a rookie QB. He is a young QB. I'm really amazed at your vitriol on this issue. Is it really so hard to believe that Jauron, McNally, and Levy simply don't believe that Preston is good enough to be a center this year, no matter what his age? Isn't it entirely possible that Jauron, McNally, and Levy would have strongly considered starting Preston if Preston were a better player? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Good grief! How low are we going to put the bar for Losman? Or better yet, how far down do we need to put the bar in order for him to go over it? JP Losman is *third year* player. He had more regular season snaps as a rookie than Carson Palmer did. Last year he played in nine game. JP Losman is *not* "essentially a rookie QB. He is a young QB. Gee John, you're absolutely right. I'll just forget the clinic that Mularkey and co put on on "How Not to Develop an NFL QB." I'm really amazed at your vitriol on this issue. Is it really so hard to believe that Jauron, McNally, and Levy simply don't believe that Preston is good enough to be a center this year, no matter what his age? Isn't it entirely possible that Jauron, McNally, and Levy would have strongly considered starting Preston if Preston were a better player? 756003[/snapback] My "vitriol" has nothing to do with whether Preston is a good enough player. It has everything to do with your monolithically stupid comment about DT and SS being essentially the same as Center. But keep dancing around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike formerly from Florida Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 FS makes the calls 755509[/snapback] Hasn't it been said over and over again that the SS makes the call in the cover two D and is the most important position (which is why we reached for one in the first round?). Saying that, I thought the middle linebacker was the one making the calls and considered the leader on most defenses? But, I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Sylvan Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Hasn't it been said over and over again that the SS makes the call in the cover two D and is the most important position (which is why we reached for one in the first round?). Saying that, I thought the middle linebacker was the one making the calls and considered the leader on most defenses? But, I could be wrong. 756645[/snapback] I think for our defense, at least for last year, it would make sense that Vincent had made the calls. At least for the secondary, but regardless of position, wouldn't it make more sense for one of the team's D leaders to make the call or one of the smarter players? Why can't it vary from team to team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike formerly from Florida Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I think for our defense, at least for last year, it would make sense that Vincent had made the calls. At least for the secondary, but regardless of position, wouldn't it make more sense for one of the team's D leaders to make the call or one of the smarter players? Why can't it vary from team to team? 756658[/snapback] That would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 I think for our defense, at least for last year, it would make sense that Vincent had made the calls. At least for the secondary, but regardless of position, wouldn't it make more sense for one of the team's D leaders to make the call or one of the smarter players? Why can't it vary from team to team? 756658[/snapback] Its probably for the same reason that a rookie center could never start in the Super Bowl..... Oh wait, nevermind..... JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Gee John, you're absolutely right. I'll just forget the clinic that Mularkey and co put on on "How Not to Develop an NFL QB." My "vitriol" has nothing to do with whether Preston is a good enough player. It has everything to do with your monolithically stupid comment about DT and SS being essentially the same as Center. But keep dancing around it. 756014[/snapback] So, you are saying that Losman's rock-bottom performance last year was Mularkey's fault? And if he does it again this year, we shouldn't complain either because "he's really just still a rookie?" To review what happened here, the Buff News tried to explain the Bills' acquisition of Fowler as 'not being comfortable with a young guy at Center.' Somehow the Buff News never considered the possibility that maybe it wasn't Preston's age, it was his *ability* that led the staff to bring in Fowler. (I mean, is Fowler on a one-year deal or something so that Preston can have the job when he grows up?) In support, I pointed out that the staff doesn't exactly act like shrinking violets when it comes to starting true rookies, let alone *second-year* players, at other positions. At this point, you jumped all over me, and acted like it was a mathematical impossibility for a second-year player to start at Center in the NFL. The truth of the matter is that this conversation isn't about me proving that Jauron & Co. have no problem starting young players - it should be about you demonstrating that Jauron & Co. *are* reluctant to start young players. Of course, Jauron somehow had no problem starting a rookie Cade McNown in his first year as Head Coach. His Center that year? Olin Kreutz - a second year I've already tossed out the example of Dan Koppen, who was a 5th rounder, and who started as a rookie (let alone a second-year player, like Preston), and went on to win the Super Bowl. Al Johnson, center for the Cowboys started in his second year. Kevin Mawae started for the Seahawks as a rookie. Tom Nalen (5th rounder) started in his second year for Denver. Jeremy Newberry split time at Guard and Center in his second year for the Niners. Dominic Raiola started in his second year for the Lions. Alex Stepanovich (4th Round) started as a rookie for the Cardinals. Jeff Saturday started in his second year for the Colts. LeCharles Bentley and Nick Hartwig were both starting at least at Guard by their second years. But what do I know about football? Hey, maybe Preston will still develop. There certainly are guys who have taken a couple years. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it would somehow be absurd for a team to start a second-year player at Center, especially a team in a rebuilding year with a new QB (best for the QB to get experience with his long-term Center) in a rebuilding year. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Preston at center As you're too lazy to look it up... 755979[/snapback] Thanks! Say, would you mind helping me out a bit with some exchange rate info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 So, you are saying that Losman's rock-bottom performance last year was Mularkey's fault? And if he does it again this year, we shouldn't complain either because "he's really just still a rookie?" There are more factors to Losman's poor performance last season but the lion's share of the blame can be dropped squarely on Miami's offensive coordinator - the very same guy who no longer wanted to be a head football coach. At the end of this season, we can evaluate whether or not Losman struggles and determine what the reasons are then. To review what happened here, the Buff News tried to explain the Bills' acquisition of Fowler as 'not being comfortable with a young guy at Center.' Somehow the Buff News never considered the possibility that maybe it wasn't Preston's age, it was his *ability* that led the staff to bring in Fowler. (I mean, is Fowler on a one-year deal or something so that Preston can have the job when he grows up?) In support, I pointed out that the staff doesn't exactly act like shrinking violets when it comes to starting true rookies, let alone *second-year* players, at other positions. It's also not a stretch to UNDERSTAND how important PLAYING experience is at the center position, even more so when your QB is so limited in that area. Duke Preston has less than 100 plays in the NFL as an offensive lineman. None of which changes the initial point that CENTER IS NOT THE SAME AS DT and/or SS. At this point, you jumped all over me, and acted like it was a mathematical impossibility for a second-year player to start at Center in the NFL. The truth of the matter is that this conversation isn't about me proving that Jauron & Co. have no problem starting young players - it should be about you demonstrating that Jauron & Co. *are* reluctant to start young players. I don't have to defend a sensible decision, nor did I jump all over you because of the impossibility of a 2nd year player starting at center in the NFL. I jumped all over you because you made the ridiculous comparison between SS, DT, and Center. Of course, Jauron somehow had no problem starting a rookie Cade McNown in his first year as Head Coach. His Center that year? Olin Kreutz - a second year How'd that work out for him? Doesn't matter how many ways you say it or what silly examples you give, that argument is STUPID. I've already tossed out the example of Dan Koppen, who was a 5th rounder, and who started as a rookie (let alone a second-year player, like Preston), and went on to win the Super Bowl. Congrats on that. Now ask Belichick if Woody were healthy how many games Koppen would have started. I love when people act like the aberration is the rule. Like I said earlier, based on your lahjik, we should be drafting a Big 10 QB every year in the sixth round. One of them is bound to be the next Tom Brady. Al Johnson, center for the Cowboys started in his second year. Kevin Mawae started for the Seahawks as a rookie. Tom Nalen (5th rounder) started in his second year for Denver. Jeremy Newberry split time at Guard and Center in his second year for the Niners. Dominic Raiola started in his second year for the Lions. Alex Stepanovich (4th Round) started as a rookie for the Cardinals. Jeff Saturday started in his second year for the Colts. LeCharles Bentley and Nick Hartwig were both starting at least at Guard by their second years. Would that be the same Al Johnson who has been demoted to second string this preseason? Mawae started over 30 games at GUARD before he ever took a snap at center. Nalen had John Elway standing behind him with Schlereth and Habib on his flanks. Saturday had Peyton Manning. How'd Harrington's development go with Raiola? Not that any of this has anything to do with YOUR ridiculous paradigm. Hey, maybe Preston will still develop. There certainly are guys who have taken a couple years. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it would somehow be absurd for a team to start a second-year player at Center, especially a team in a rebuilding year with a new QB (best for the QB to get experience with his long-term Center) in a rebuilding year. 756695[/snapback] Who's kidding themselves? I've never seen Preston as the long term answer at Center (or any position for that matter). Shoot, I was praying Marv and co traded into round one to pick up OSU's Manchowder - answering that position for the next decade. As far as getting experience together, I'd prefer my young QB not be taking snaps from a virtual rookie. It's a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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