The Poojer Posted September 4, 2006 Posted September 4, 2006 i think it is more of a perspective thing, we as a society like to root against those with a buttload of talent and ego to match, then as we age we begin to appreciate the talent more and set aside the ego and realize what we have been witnessing. We like to root for the underdog at the expense of the favorite. Look at some people today that do not like tiger woods because he is "too good". Eventually we as a society come around and begin to appreciate the magnitude of the talent and begin to celebrate it as the career winds down. I like Aggasi and even, for some reason, liked him during his early Image is Everything days. But, what I think is funny is that in the 70s and early 80s, all these tennis fans thought Conners was an ahole who was ruining the sport. Then, in 91, he made that run and everybody loved him. At the same time, Aggasi was at his peak of being hated. I can't remember the specifics, but I remember how much the fans hated him. What I do recall is watching some of this one night at a bar with a friend and we were joking how when Aggasi tanks a set because he knows he's going to lose it and he wants to save his energy for the next set, he's was reviled. But, Conners was doing the same exact thing and being called "the wily veteran." Fast forward 15 years, and now Aggasi '06=Conners in '91. So, if you just stick around long enough, the people who hated you when you were young will love you when you're old! 761095[/snapback]
loadofmularkey Posted September 4, 2006 Posted September 4, 2006 I like Aggasi and even, for some reason, liked him during his early Image is Everything days. But, what I think is funny is that in the 70s and early 80s, all these tennis fans thought Conners was an ahole who was ruining the sport. Then, in 91, he made that run and everybody loved him. At the same time, Aggasi was at his peak of being hated. I can't remember the specifics, but I remember how much the fans hated him. What I do recall is watching some of this one night at a bar with a friend and we were joking how when Aggasi tanks a set because he knows he's going to lose it and he wants to save his energy for the next set, he's was reviled. But, Conners was doing the same exact thing and being called "the wily veteran." Fast forward 15 years, and now Aggasi '06=Conners in '91. So, if you just stick around long enough, the people who hated you when you were young will love you when you're old! 761095[/snapback] I think it's fun to watch an athlete grow up before your eyes, like Agassi. As he got older, he toned his act down (not that I ever thought his "act" was all that wild to begin with). But the hair got shorter (granted he has a receding hairline), the neon clothes went away (granted neon clothes went out of style for good sometime around '92), the girl changed (the annoying Brooke Shields to the likeable Steffi Graf) and he became a family man. Over the past few years he seemed like a real classy, genuine guy and that's why it became easy to root for him, even the ones who maybe didn't at first.
bbb Posted September 4, 2006 Posted September 4, 2006 All this is true - Andre really evolved. But, Jimmy really didn't and he was just rewarded with love for getting old.
Simon Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 when Aggasi tanks a set because he knows he's going to lose it and he wants to save his energy for the next set, he's was reviled. But, Conners was doing the same exact thing and being called "the wily veteran." The problem with Agassi in his prime was that he tanked wayyyyyyy too many final sets. That guy just flat out quit in more tight tough matches than any player I have ever seen. His lack of guts and heart was why I reviled him when he was younger. I found it ironic that he also gave up during his very last game this weekend . A fitting way to end a career that was as much about wasted talent as it was anything else.
Ramius Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 The problem with Agassi in his prime was that he tanked wayyyyyyy too many final sets. That guy just flat out quit in more tight tough matches than any player I have ever seen. His lack of guts and heart was why I reviled him when he was younger.I found it ironic that he also gave up during his very last game this weekend . A fitting way to end a career that was as much about wasted talent as it was anything else. 761908[/snapback] A reatrded assinine statement like this proves you absolutely zero knowledge on the game of tennis if you think agassi tanked the last set sunday and has been tanking final sets his entire career.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 1. I don't know how anyone can say a guy who won all four Slams on three different surfaces wasted his talent -- Andre is the ONLY one EVER to do so (Laver, et al won when the Ozzie open and the U.S. were on grass). Can you say Andre was capable of much more that he didn't realize? Of course. He knows that. But we've watched him grow, become a real gentleman of the game, and take the sport on his shoulders. That's something that Sampras, great as he was, couldn't do. Andre certainly could be overwhelmed by the best of servers like Sampras, but he had a game that was always competitive. 2. I saw Blake-Moya and Gasquet-Hewitt the past two nights. Blake is going to have a tough one assuming he is to meet Federer. But I liked the way he showed up, especially down so badly in that tiebreak. Gasquet played a hell of a match. I really despise Hewitt, and wanted the French kid to win. Too bad cramping basically ended a real close call for him. He can pull off some amazing shots and will be one to watch. He displayed some great groundstrokes and backhand shots. As an aside, there was a beautiful, probably 20-year-old ballgirl out there and the crowd kept cheering for her every time she ran out there to pick one up during the Hewitt-Gasquet match. I think they made her switch a shift out because people kept doing it and it was distracting from the tennis action. Those funny quirks really make a match memorable. 3. Another run at the Open is over for me (at least seeing it in person). I strongly recommend it to anyone who has the opportunity. You'll have a new appreciation for the game, specifically the speed of it. TV has nothing on the real live thing.
Simon Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 A reatrded assinine statement like this proves you absolutely zero knowledge on the game of tennis if you think agassi tanked the last set sunday and has been tanking final sets his entire career. I occasionally forget that anybody who disagrees with your infinite wisdom is automatically a know-nothing retard. Fortunately there is no shortage of examples to remind me. And perhaps you should actually read what I said before you make up something completely different and call me an idiot for saying it. I didn't say he quit in matches his entire career, I said when he was younger. You know back when you were about 5-10 years old and wouldn't have a clue whether your hero was giving an honest effort or mailing it in out of frustration. But yeah, I'm retarded and you were an omniscient 7 year old. And I didn't say he tanked the final set on Sunday, I said he gave up in his final game. You know, the one he lost 40-0 and didn't even bother extending his racket on the last point? But yeah, I'm retarded because I disagree with you. Get over yourself son. You ain't half as smart as you think you are and the rest of the world isn't half as idiotic as you're convinced it is. Not to mention that dismissing alternate opinions out of hand is a fine example of stupidity. A Wile E. Coyote quality super-genius such as yourself ought to recognize that. Can you say Andre was capable of much more that he didn't realize? Of course. He knows that. Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying. The guy had as much talent as I've ever seen and could have been the greatest player of all time. But his lack of tenacity and unwillingness to really grind when he was in his prime was just a terrible waste and a real turn-off to folks who knew that he was capable of so much more than he accomplished. Cya
taterhill Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 why is this 10 pages? someone give me the cliff notes...
smokinandjokin Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 why is this 10 pages? someone give me the cliff notes... 762171[/snapback] I've probably read about eight total posts in the thread, but here's my recap: Andre was a hairbag pretty boy who used to bang Brooke Shields...He had game but also wasted a lot of talent....Now he's a bald old man with a bad back who bangs a chick with a huge beak who is a better tennis player than he is. He retired, he cried, end of an era, blah blah blah. Oh yes, as a footnote, in my own personal opinion, men's tennis is the most retarded sport. The points are three seconds long due to 150mph serves. It has become two guys grunting, which is not cool on any level. Federer is great but he's not persuading anybody to pick up a racket.
smokinandjokin Posted September 5, 2006 Posted September 5, 2006 Mauresmo is a handsome fella 762204[/snapback] Mach 3 Turbo- Mauresmo Edition! Forehand and backhand grips.
ajzepp Posted September 5, 2006 Author Posted September 5, 2006 1. I don't know how anyone can say a guy who won all four Slams on three different surfaces wasted his talent -- Andre is the ONLY one EVER to do so (Laver, et al won when the Ozzie open and the U.S. were on grass). Can you say Andre was capable of much more that he didn't realize? Of course. He knows that. But we've watched him grow, become a real gentleman of the game, and take the sport on his shoulders. That's something that Sampras, great as he was, couldn't do. Andre certainly could be overwhelmed by the best of servers like Sampras, but he had a game that was always competitive. 2. I saw Blake-Moya and Gasquet-Hewitt the past two nights. Blake is going to have a tough one assuming he is to meet Federer. But I liked the way he showed up, especially down so badly in that tiebreak. Gasquet played a hell of a match. I really despise Hewitt, and wanted the French kid to win. Too bad cramping basically ended a real close call for him. He can pull off some amazing shots and will be one to watch. He displayed some great groundstrokes and backhand shots. As an aside, there was a beautiful, probably 20-year-old ballgirl out there and the crowd kept cheering for her every time she ran out there to pick one up during the Hewitt-Gasquet match. I think they made her switch a shift out because people kept doing it and it was distracting from the tennis action. Those funny quirks really make a match memorable. 3. Another run at the Open is over for me (at least seeing it in person). I strongly recommend it to anyone who has the opportunity. You'll have a new appreciation for the game, specifically the speed of it. TV has nothing on the real live thing. 762015[/snapback] Yep, that's one of the things that made Andre great, and also what made him competitive on grass, even though he was much more of a baseliner - he was the greatest returner of serve since Jimmy Connors. The serve and volley game of grass can put you into the clubhouse quick if you can't return serve. But Andre took it to another level, because he initially had to compensate for the fact that he wasn't all that great at the net. The guy is so amazingly versatile, though, that he was able to use his strengths and improve his weaknesses enough to where he became a very solid grass player (which is my favorite surface). I'll miss the guy....he was awesome. And you're a lucky bastard that you go to go and see some of this live...I'm determined to get to wimbledon one day, but I want to hit flushing meadows too.
Simon Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 he was the greatest returner of serve since Jimmy Connors. I think it's arguable to say that you can even forget the "since Jimmy" addendum. Like him or not I think Agassi was the greatest returner of serve that ever played the game. At least teh best I've ever seen. Cya
ajzepp Posted September 6, 2006 Author Posted September 6, 2006 I think it's arguable to say that you can even forget the "since Jimmy" addendum. Like him or not I think Agassi was the greatest returner of serve that ever played the game. At least teh best I've ever seen.Cya 762618[/snapback] You know, when Andre made the finals at wimbledon against Ivanisevic, I thought he was dead meat. Goran was serving the hell out of the ball and was impossible to break. I don't know if that was Andre's greatest with, but it's probably his best in my mind. His ability to react and return his serves was just ridiculous. So I'd have to agree with you that you could defintely make a case that he was the best ever. Like Jimmy, the guy would just rip winners off the other guy's serve....just amazing to watch. A lot of guys can get the racket positioned to return the ball, mainly using the speed of the serve and just directing back over the net....but Andre was able to make a full stroke for winner after winner and totally offset the server's advantage. Pretty cool stuff!
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 I've probably read about eight total posts in the thread, but here's my recap: Andre was a hairbag pretty boy who used to bang Brooke Shields...He had game but also wasted a lot of talent....Now he's a bald old man with a bad back who bangs a chick with a huge beak who is a better tennis player than he is. He retired, he cried, end of an era, blah blah blah. Oh yes, as a footnote, in my own personal opinion, men's tennis is the most retarded sport. The points are three seconds long due to 150mph serves. It has become two guys grunting, which is not cool on any level. 762194[/snapback] Watch Nadal and Federer play each other and tell me that's boring. Watch it live, tell me it's boring, and we'll just simply agree to disagree. And if you find 22 guys grunting and patting each other on the ass cool, yet 2 guys separated by 20 yards grunting is a problem, explain that to me.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 Yep, that's one of the things that made Andre great, and also what made him competitive on grass, even though he was much more of a baseliner - he was the greatest returner of serve since Jimmy Connors. The serve and volley game of grass can put you into the clubhouse quick if you can't return serve. But Andre took it to another level, because he initially had to compensate for the fact that he wasn't all that great at the net. The guy is so amazingly versatile, though, that he was able to use his strengths and improve his weaknesses enough to where he became a very solid grass player (which is my favorite surface). I'll miss the guy....he was awesome. And you're a lucky bastard that you go to go and see some of this live...I'm determined to get to wimbledon one day, but I want to hit flushing meadows too. 762254[/snapback] Yeah, it's great to be able to do it. I mean, I wish I could go to more Bills and Sabres games, but this is definitely a treat. You should by all means go and check out the Open whenever you get the chance.
ajzepp Posted September 6, 2006 Author Posted September 6, 2006 Watch Nadal and Federer play each other and tell me that's boring. Watch it live, tell me it's boring, and we'll just simply agree to disagree. And if you find 22 guys grunting and patting each other on the ass cool, yet 2 guys separated by 20 yards grunting is a problem, explain that to me. 763189[/snapback] Right on!
smokinandjokin Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 Watch Nadal and Federer play each other and tell me that's boring. Watch it live, tell me it's boring, and we'll just simply agree to disagree. And if you find 22 guys grunting and patting each other on the ass cool, yet 2 guys separated by 20 yards grunting is a problem, explain that to me. 763189[/snapback] To begin, I am a fan of tennis. As far as athleticism goes, tennis players have to rate near the top, and are as well-conditioned as any athletes in the world. I enjoy playing a little bit, and I used to really enjoy watching it. I have watched Federer vs Nadal. They are both outstanding. They actually play points and hit some incredible shots. However, there are so many players who have technologically enhanced rackets which has turned the game into a battle of 140mph serves. Occasionally a stab return will bounce in, and then the server buries a forehand. Point over. What a match. 7-6, 7-6, 6-7, 7-6. In football, dudes are grunting while trying to murder each other. In tennis, one guy grunts out a booming serve, the other guy grunts out a return that hits the frame of his racket, and then they wipe themselves off with a towel and do it again. So yes, I think football is much cooler. Federer has the chance to be the greatest of all time. But I don't think there's too many kids who say "I want to be like Roger Federer." Granted, if he was American, of course the hype machine would have huge billboards in Times Square and make the dude a legend. So that's not necessarily his fault. By the way, Sharapova's screaming is excellent.
ajzepp Posted September 6, 2006 Author Posted September 6, 2006 Yeah, it's great to be able to do it. I mean, I wish I could go to more Bills and Sabres games, but this is definitely a treat. You should by all means go and check out the Open whenever you get the chance. 763193[/snapback] Geesh man, I've had total withdrawal since leaving Philly in '99. The few years I spent there going to school was great cause it's such a ridiculously rabid sports town. I was able to immerse myself in the Flyers, Phantoms, Sixers, and Iggles. I still missed my Bills, but I still felt connected, you know? But shiit, being in Atlanta SUCKS. I've been to a few falcons games and even had really good seats, but they're just boring. I've been a Braves fan since I was a kid, so that's a plus, but it still doesn't compare to back up north. So yeah, I'm dying to get back to some Bills games, maybe some Sabres games, and then hopefully get to some of these major events like the US Open at some point. I just love sports and I need to feel like I'm in the middle of what's going on or else I get really grumpy
buckeyemike Posted September 6, 2006 Posted September 6, 2006 By the way, Sharapova's screaming is excellent. 763214[/snapback] And that line, my friend, can be taken in sooooo many different ways.
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