Time Warner Fights Back

[Fla Bills Fan]

The difference is that DirecTV actually listens to you when you call with an issue/complaint.

 

Oh, and although rates have been going up the past few years with DirecTV, they actually went *DOWN* for two out of three years at one point.

 

The whole "I don't watch it so I don't want to pay for it" argument is crap anyway.  I don't watch ESPN2 at all, so I shouldn't have to pay for it (nevermind the fact that ESPN charges something like $2/subscriber and nobody complains about that).  I don't watch Lifetime or O so I shouldn't have to pay for it.  If you only paid for the channels you watched, you'd be paying a LOT more money.

 

I don't have kids, so I shouldn't have to pay school taxes. 

CW

754456[/snapback]

Let's not forget the very popular shop at home channels. I wonder how many hrs. a month members of this board watch them

[Just Jack]

Let's not forget the very popular shop at home channels. I wonder how many hrs. a month members of this board watch them

754924[/snapback]

I'll do better than that, I'll tell you how much time I've spent on them since I first got my own apartment/cable back in '97.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About 5 minutes.

[Fezmid]

Let's not forget the very popular shop at home channels. I wonder how many hrs. a month members of this board watch them

754924[/snapback]

I didn't include those because the shopping channels actually pay the providers to be broadcast... So those channels make your bill go down...

 

CW

[Fezmid]

It is the greedy NFL Network, owned by a monopolistic cabal of billionaires

When I saw "monopolistic cabal," I thought you were talking about the cable company....

 

The solution is simple - switch to DirecTV or Dish. Have your cake and eat it too. And as everyone knows, if you have any DirecTV questions, let me know.

[drg2021]

The difference is that DirecTV actually listens to you when you call with an issue/complaint.

 

Oh, and although rates have been going up the past few years with DirecTV, they actually went *DOWN* for two out of three years at one point.

 

The whole "I don't watch it so I don't want to pay for it" argument is crap anyway.  I don't watch ESPN2 at all, so I shouldn't have to pay for it (nevermind the fact that ESPN charges something like $2/subscriber and nobody complains about that).  I don't watch Lifetime or O so I shouldn't have to pay for it.  If you only paid for the channels you watched, you'd be paying a LOT more money.

 

I don't have kids, so I shouldn't have to pay school taxes. 

CW

754456[/snapback]

Exactly.Directtv fixed the problem with the Sabres games promptly last season,and im thankfull i have Directtv.I dumped Adelphia when it was reaveled the Rigas were taking the money.I lost in my 401k because of those scumbags Apperantly TW is gonna be worse than Adelphia was.Fix the problem with the NFL network by getting the dish:)No worries with dtv

[Ramius]

Well, i am !@#$ed either way with comcast. I'd hafta upgrade to the digital cable package (from $40 basic to $70) to get NFL network. Comcast doesnt offer it with regular cable, only digital. I hate comcast.

[Ned Flanders]

or Dish. 

755040[/snapback]

Drinking early today, Fezzer?

[drg2021]

Well, i am !@#$ed either way with comcast. I'd hafta upgrade to the digital cable package (from $40 basic to $70) to get NFL network. Comcast doesnt offer it with regular cable, only digital. I hate comcast.

755158[/snapback]

Try Directtv.

[TigerJ]

The bottom line is that fans are the pawns in this corporate chess game. The corporations are using us to try and get the upper hand, but the don't really care about us.

[sven233]

I never said that.  I said that 90% of the country isn't really all that interested in watching the NFL Network.

Well, for one, we don't know what fees those other networks are charging.  It would also be interesting to compare ratings for those other networks that "noone watches" vs. NFL Network ratings.

 

The simple truth of the matter is that you act like Time Warner is refusing to offer the NFL Network to its customers.  Not true.  Time Warner is offering to let consumers who want the NFL Network pay for it.    It is the greedy NFL Network, owned by a monopolistic cabal of billionaires that is refusing to let Time Warner offer the NFL Network to those people who want it.    The NFL Network wants Time Warner to offer the Network to everyone, or not at all.    And right now the NFL Network is choosing "not at all." 

 

JDG

754858[/snapback]

 

Again, you are not making sense at all! You keep using the argument that only certain people want to watch NFL Network! Well, certain people only want to watch MTV, HGTV, A&E, FOX News, CNN, etc. Why do they get to be on basic cable for everyone to see and the NFL Network can't? It is the EXACT same thing. I am willing to bet the NFL network would have just as good, if not BETTER, ratings than many of the cable networks currently available if they were in the same number of households.

 

Again, there is a reason that the NFL Network battle is making NATIONAL headlines. IT IS BECAUSE THERE ARE A TON OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE IT ON THEIR BASIC CABLE PACKAGE.

 

Again, do you really think there would be this big of an outrage if this were over A&E or Lifetime? No, because people don't care about those networks, but yet, we still have to pay for them. The NFL is the biggest sport in the country and PEOPLE CARE. That is why this is making national news.

 

So, your argument that most people don't want to watch the NFL Network doesn't fly. There are several other networks that people don't want either and yet we still have to pay for them. Why not offer them on a tier as well so the 3 people that want to watch them can pay for it and the rest of us don't have to? So, this doesn't boil down tot he NFL Network.

 

It boils down to what cable companies determine people want to watch. And all that I am saying is that NFL Network should not have to deal with any restrictions that other networks don't have. The same rules should apply to every network. And right now, Time Warner is singling out NFL Network and not allowing them the same rights that all these other networks already have......the right to be on basic cable.

 

But until some cable company comes up with A la Carte, the rules will not change. So, until that time, all networks, including the NFL Network, should have the right to be on basic cable. You can't say have certain rules for A&E and Lifetime and then different rules for NFL Network.

 

TIME WARNER IS DEAD WRONG AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

[daquixers_is_back]

Agreed ^^^ ... I dont see Time Warner winning this. In fact it is only hurting themselves for future years and deals with the NFL.

[JDG]

Again, you are not making sense at all!  You keep using the argument that only certain people want to watch NFL Network!  Well, certain people only want to watch MTV, HGTV, A&E, FOX News, CNN, etc.  Why do they get to be on basic cable for everyone to see and the NFL Network can't?  It is the EXACT same thing.  I am willing to bet the NFL network would have just as good, if not BETTER, ratings than many of the cable networks currently available if they were in the same number of households. 

 

Again, there is a reason that the NFL Network battle is making NATIONAL headlines.  IT IS BECAUSE THERE ARE A TON OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE IT ON THEIR BASIC CABLE PACKAGE.

 

Again, do you really think there would be this big of an outrage if this were over A&E or Lifetime?  No, because people don't care about those networks, but yet, we still have to pay for them.  The NFL is the biggest sport in the country and PEOPLE CARE.  That is why this is making national news. 

 

So, your argument that most people don't want to watch the NFL Network doesn't fly.  There are several other networks that people don't want either and yet we still have to pay for them.  Why not offer them on a tier as well so the 3 people that want to watch them can pay for it and the rest of us don't have to?  So, this doesn't boil down tot he NFL Network.

 

It boils down to what cable companies determine people want to watch.  And all that I am saying is that NFL Network should not have to deal with any restrictions that other networks don't have.  The same rules should apply to every network.  And right now, Time Warner is singling out NFL Network and not allowing them the same rights that all these other networks already have......the right to be on basic cable.

 

But until some cable company comes up with A la Carte, the rules will not change.  So, until that time, all networks, including the NFL Network, should have the right to be on basic cable.  You can't say have certain rules for A&E and Lifetime and then different rules for NFL Network.

 

TIME WARNER IS DEAD WRONG AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

755405[/snapback]

 

 

On every cable system in the country, the cable company decides what networks are on the basic package, and what networks are on additional tiers. You act like Time Warner is descriminating against it, when in fact almost every cable system in the country regularly decides which networks will be on basic cable, and which will be in higher tier packages. Indeed, where does the NFL get off in refusing to let Time Warner carry the Network in a sports tier???? It is the NFL that wants the special treatment. The NFL Network is getting the same treatment from TimeWarner as Fox Sports Net - same as many boutique sports channels.

 

You really don't know what you are talking about. Lifetime is the #5 cable network. A&E is the #10 cable network. I don't know where the NFL Network comes in, but it is not even in the Top 25. It is worth noting that Lifetime has more than 2.5 times the rating of the 25th ranked cable network, so we know it has at least that much on the NFL Network - and probably a lot more. There isn't outrage about Lifetime and A&E because both networks are on basic cable on just about every (if not evey single) system in the country because, well, people watch those networks - unlike the NFL Network.

 

The battle between the NFL Network and Time Warner isn't exactly making National Headlines. It is making headlines among NFL beat writers, because that is what they cover. It also is making headlines in cities with Time Warner cable since it directly affects those places. It certainly has not made much in the way of mainstream news. I watch ABC World News Tonight just about every day and can't recall seeing it mentioned yet (although there is a small chance I might have missed it, I think that is unlikely).

 

JDG

[sven233]

On every cable system in the country, the cable company decides what networks are on the basic package, and what networks are on additional tiers.  You act like Time Warner is descriminating against it, when in fact almost every cable system in the country regularly decides which networks will be on basic cable, and which will be in higher tier packages.  Indeed, where does the NFL get off in refusing to let Time Warner carry the Network in a sports tier????  It is the NFL that wants the special treatment.  The NFL Network is getting the same treatment from TimeWarner as Fox Sports Net - same as many boutique sports channels.

 

You really don't know what you are talking about.  Lifetime is the #5 cable network.  A&E is the #10 cable network.  I don't know where the NFL Network comes in, but it is not even in the Top 25.  It is worth noting that Lifetime has more than 2.5 times the rating of the 25th ranked cable network, so we know it has at least that much on the NFL Network - and probably a lot more.  There isn't outrage about Lifetime and A&E because both networks are on basic cable on just about every (if not evey single) system in the country because, well, people watch those networks - unlike the NFL Network.

 

The battle between the NFL Network and Time Warner isn't exactly making National Headlines.  It is making headlines among NFL beat writers, because that is what they cover.  It also is making headlines in cities with Time Warner cable since it directly affects those places.  It certainly has not made much in the way of mainstream news.  I watch ABC World News Tonight just about every day and can't recall seeing it mentioned yet (although there is a small chance I might have missed it, I think that is unlikely). 

 

JDG

755460[/snapback]

 

You are completely missing the point! You just don't get it! I'm not trying to compare NFL Network to Lifetime or A&E or any other network. All that I am saying is that why are many people paying for networks that couldn't care less about and not being allowed access to the channel they want?

 

And trying to compare NFL Network ratings to any of the networks you did is just DUMB and STUPID! Of course they are going to have higher rating because they are in a GAZILLION more homes than NFL Network is! It is impossible to compare!

 

And regardless of what you do think, it is a big story. Articles in every major newspaper in the country and several other media outlets make up national news. Is it as big as all the fighting going on over in the Middle East? NO! But, it has caught the attention of several national outlets.

 

Look, the NFL Network is not asking for a special ruling here. They simply want to be placed on a basic tier to not force people that want their network to pay for it like ANY OTHER STATION THAT IS CURRENTLY ON BASIC CABLE! They just want the same treatment as any other network on basic cable is getting. Nothing more, nothing less. DISH NETWORK, DIRECTV, and over 200 OTHE CABLE COMPANIES AGREE WITH THEM AND KNOW THAT BRINGING NFL NETWORK TO EVERY CUSTOMER ON A BASIC PACKAGE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Time Warner just is fighting a losing battle and they know it! And they will see it more and more as people start switching to sattelite. It has already started and it won't slow down anyime soon.

 

Cable companies, including Time Warner have had a MONOPOLY over the TV industry for years. They were the only game in town for so long and got away with whatever they wanted to..........WHY DO YOU THINK CABLE BILLS ARE THROUGH THE ROOF??? Because they could. Well, now there are actually companies around that LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMERS and give them what they want FOR LESS MONEY. And what is happening? Well, Time Warner is fighting a public battle against the nation's most popular sport and its fans. They are fighting with their own customers! Talk about great customer service! I don't care what the company's problem is with the NFL Network or the NFL, but you have to give the customers what they want. And it is pretty clear they want the NFL Network. So what, they make 42.1 BILLION this year and not 42.8 BILLION! (Actually, they still may make the same amount anyways after they stop subscribers from leaving!) YOU GIVE THE CUSTOMER'S WHAT THEY WANT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO RAISE RATES TO GIVE THEM THIS NETWORK! Is the NFL totally innocent here? NO! They are all money grubbing fools......Time Warner and the NFL! But while they have their chick fight over stupid things, the customer is losing out.

 

TIME WARNER: THE POWER OF YOU! (To do absoluely nothing about your programming)

[GG]

DISH NETWORK, DIRECTV, and over 200 OTHE CABLE COMPANIES AGREE WITH THEM AND KNOW THAT BRINGING NFL NETWORK TO EVERY CUSTOMER ON A BASIC PACKAGE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. 

755579[/snapback]

 

Except that the NFL Network is NOT part of basic cable on the other major cable companies' lineups.

[Lothar]

Look, the NFL Network is not asking for a special ruling here.  They simply want to be placed on a basic tier to not force people that want their network to pay for it like ANY OTHER STATION THAT IS CURRENTLY ON BASIC CABLE!  They just want the same treatment as any other network on basic cable is getting.  Nothing more, nothing less.  DISH NETWORK, DIRECTV, and over 200 OTHE CABLE COMPANIES AGREE WITH THEM AND KNOW THAT BRINGING NFL NETWORK TO EVERY CUSTOMER ON A BASIC PACKAGE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.  Time Warner just is fighting a losing battle and they know it!  And they will see it more and more as people start switching to sattelite.  It has already started and it won't slow down anyime soon.

755579[/snapback]

Sven - I think you're missing the point here. The NFL and its network wants to charge a giant premium to TWC and all the other cable companies to carry it. Some of these companies are balking at paying a hefty fee to a network that doesn't have that many viewers. Instead, and to offset costs, they are suggesting that the network be in a premium package. Since NFLN will carry 8 games this year, they know they need national coverage to get decent ratings. Why not compromise and say we'll include it free the first year, see what kind of ratings we get and then determine the fee structure. In football terms, it's like a UDFA demanding a large signing bonus when he hasn't proved it on the field. And of course, you can compare this to other channels. Personally, I just want PBS, National Geographic, Comedy Central and the sports stations but I'm guessing I'm in the minority so I have to pay for the other 600 craptastic channels. I doubt any of 'em are asking for numbers like the NFL is though.

 

“Cable subscribers should root for Time Warner and fear the NFL Network like a blitzing linebacker. If the NFL Network becomes as powerful as ESPN some day, you know who eventually will be thrown for a loss with constant rate increases to offset new programming costs? You, the subscriber.” — Alan Pergament. August 4, 2006. “Subscribers Have Much at Stake in NFL Spat.” Buffalo News

[Fezmid]

Drinking early today, Fezzer? 

755168[/snapback]

Dish is nowhere near as good as DirecTV IMHO, but it's still better than the EVil Empire, aka: Cable.

 

CW

[UpperDeck]

I don't want to lose the NFL Network either but there was so much conjecture here that I thought I'd look for some facts:

 

Cable and Satellite Television Network Tiering and a la Carte

 

Pretty wordy government gibberish but there are some interesting facts. "James Robbins, chief executive of Cox Cable, reportedly stated at a Goldman Sachs investors conference that ESPN accounted for 4% of Cox subscribers’ viewing, but 18% of Cox programming costs."

 

Cable's Pricey Ticket

 

"Sports networks are the most expensive programming on basic cable. The license fees for all the networks on an 80-channel basic-cable package cost an operator around $12 per subscriber last year, Morgan Stanley estimates. Nearly half of that stems from just a handful of programming networks: ESPN (around $3 monthly), at least one regional sports network (around $2), and smaller channels like ESPN2, ESPNews, ESPN Desportes (another 35¢ cents for the package)."

 

"By comparison, the license fee for other basic-cable networks can be just pennies per subscriber; some networks, such as MTV or TBS, commonly run 25¢-50¢. (Disney Channel, however, gets $1 per sub.)"

 

"New networks will only add to that. The NFL Network wants 75¢ per subscriber."

[Dan Gross]

Except that the NFL Network is NOT part of basic cable on the other major cable companies' lineups.

755604[/snapback]

 

Yeah, that person didn't get the particulars exactly right. NFL Network is NOT part of basic cable, but it is also NOT part of a dedicated "Sports Tier" on any of those cable networks. That is where the battle lies....

[sven233]

Sven - I think you're missing the point here.  The NFL and its network wants to charge a giant premium to TWC and all the other cable companies to carry it.  Some of these companies are balking at paying a hefty fee to a network that doesn't have that many viewers.  Instead, and to offset costs, they are suggesting that the network be in a premium package.  Since NFLN will carry 8 games this year, they know they need national coverage to get decent ratings.  Why not compromise and say we'll include it free the first year, see what kind of ratings we get and then determine the fee structure.  In football terms, it's like a UDFA demanding a large signing bonus when he hasn't proved it on the field.  And of course, you can compare this to other channels.  Personally, I just want PBS, National Geographic, Comedy Central and the sports stations but I'm guessing I'm in the minority so I have to pay for the other 600 craptastic channels.  I doubt any of 'em are asking for numbers like the NFL is though.

 

“Cable subscribers should root for Time Warner and fear the NFL Network like a blitzing linebacker. If the NFL Network becomes as powerful as ESPN some day, you know who eventually will be thrown for a loss with constant rate increases to offset new programming costs? You, the subscriber.” — Alan Pergament. August 4, 2006. “Subscribers Have Much at Stake in NFL Spat.” Buffalo News

755624[/snapback]

 

I do like the idea that you have for a compromise. Here is the thing. We have all kind of lost site of what the point here is. The real reason we are having this discusion is because us football fans will be losing one of our favorite networks for very stupid reasons.

 

Regardless of who is right or wrong (Time Warner or the NFL), the real issue we are having with it is that we are losing a network that we all want at THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME OF YEAR......THE START OF FOOTBALL SEASON! If these 2 HUGE businesses would just find a way to settle, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. There is just a lot of frustration out there because these multi billion companies are fighting over, what would be a couple extra bucks to you and me.

 

Time Warner just looks like fools in this situation because they ARE THE ONLY MAJOR COMPANY not to carry the NFL Nework. There is pleanty of blame to go around. Time Warner is to blame, the NFL is to blame........whatever. The fact of the matter is, the only ones being hurt by this are the customers.

 

As for your compromise, while it does make sense to try it on a trial basis and then work it out based on the numbers, but the problem is, neither company, especially Time Warner, would let that happen. It would just lead to more fighting and petty bickering down the road.

 

I don't know what the solution is. The fact is, people who want the NFL Network, should not have to pay extra for it. However, maybe the NFL is expecting too much per subscriber. To me, the solution is easy. Just split the difference. The NFL wants $0.90 per subscriber and to be on basic cable. Time Warner wants NFL Network on a Sports Tier so they themselves can collect more money from their subscribers. Why don't they settle on $0.65-$0.70 per subscriber and on basic cable? That would make both companies money.....NFL through the subscriber fees, and Time Warner through additional customers that won't switch to Dish or DirecTV and new customers they can bring in because of the features they can offer.

 

I know, it is not that simple, but this is totally out of hand and only us, the customers are getting hurt. Both entities need to realize this and step up. They NEED to work this out.

[Kelly the Dog]

It also depends on how you look at the NFL network, which has only been in existence about two years or so. It doesn't have nearly the numbers that a lot of the established cable networks have, so on one hand you can honestly say that it isn't worth it to the cable companies. On the other hand, the ascension of the NFL network has been meteoric in its short existence, especially considering the miniscule number of homes it originally reached. As well as getting one of the most sought after contracts in all of television: Live exclusive prime time NFL games. So you could honestly say that anyone claiming it's not getting viewers of other stations is quite disingenuous.