RayFinkle Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Is Marv a genius or a goat? I say he leans a bit more toward the goat side because of what he gave up to get McCargo, but Kyle would save his bacon. PS-This question is purely hypothetical of course as it is much too early to tell, so save the drama for your mama. It is just a question which was thrown out over a couple beers the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Is Marv a genius or a goat? I say he leans a bit more toward the goat side because of what he gave up to get McCargo, but Kyle would save his bacon. PS-This question is purely hypothetical of course as it is much too early to tell, so save the drama for your mama. It is just a question which was thrown out over a couple beers the other day. 753104[/snapback] It depends mostly on Whitner. This draft is marked by Whitner, and what we turned down in order to take him. After this, while looking at the Bills draft at this early stage, one is still left to wonder as to why the stupid, inexplicable emphasis on yet more defensive backs. If your scenario holds true, it would be something of an afterthought imo. Levy chose to focus his early draft resources on defensive backs. If either of the DTs is a good player, it would be pretty much a wash. That said, I am thrilled by what I have seen of Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Is Marv a genius or a goat? I say he leans a bit more toward the goat side because of what he gave up to get McCargo, but Kyle would save his bacon. PS-This question is purely hypothetical of course as it is much too early to tell, so save the drama for your mama. It is just a question which was thrown out over a couple beers the other day. 753104[/snapback] Marv had nothing to do with the draft. The question should be is "Tom Modrak a genius or a goat". If I had to find a word to descibe Modrak's drafts so far I would use "safe" as the word. I can't think of any player that would be considered a "stud" or a "superstar". I also can't think of any picks that would be considered complete wastes of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I think McCargo will take more time to develop. This draft was far from "safe". Whitner and McCargo were stretches. Don't get me wrong. I like our defensive emphasis. The first Cleveland drive suggests we're still young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 If either of the DTs is a good player, it would be pretty much a wash. That said, I am thrilled by what I have seen of Williams. 753110[/snapback] I disagree it be a wash if McCargo doesn't turn out. As we traded up to get McCargo which will always lead to the what IF we hadn't traded up we made have been able to draft OT Darryn Colledge or any player X and a DT like Claude Wroten or any player Y. As I've always said a draft is about getting the best collection of players. It's like back in 2002 had we not traded up with the 49ers for Ryan Denney we could of ended up with QB Josh McCown and DE Alex Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I think McCargo will take more time to develop. This draft was far from "safe". Whitner and McCargo were stretches. Don't get me wrong. I like our defensive emphasis. The first Cleveland drive suggests we're still young. 753127[/snapback] They were stretches. But I wouldn't say Modrak went out on a limb for either. It's not like the Losman or McGahee picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Fub Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 If I had to pick one in regards to the draft, I'd lean towards Marv is a genius. Whitner, Williams and Simpson have all looked good. Everyone else is a question mark so far, including McCargo. (IMO, you judge a GM based on how successful the draft is as a whole, not on an individual pick. Even the best GMs will have picks that are busts.) But, like you said, it's too early to tell. How a player looks 3 practice games into his career doesn't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 In three years we will know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyNowBuffalo Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 It depends mostly on Whitner. This draft is marked by Whitner, and what we turned down in order to take him. After this, while looking at the Bills draft at this early stage, one is still left to wonder as to why the stupid, inexplicable emphasis on yet more defensive backs. If your scenario holds true, it would be something of an afterthought imo. Levy chose to focus his early draft resources on defensive backs. If either of the DTs is a good player, it would be pretty much a wash. That said, I am thrilled by what I have seen of Williams. 753110[/snapback] I wouldn't call the emphasis on DBs inexplicable... You can have six on the field at a time, so you need depth... The current depth is riddled with underachievers (Wire) and street free agents (Baker, Greer, Leonhard)... You've got a starting corner who is a free agent next year... When others become eligible for free agency, they demand huge contracts and are difficult to retain... The other starting corner, while good, makes his most visible contribution on special teams, increasing (even if slightly) the likelihood of injury...You've got a rapidly declining starting free safety... Sentiment toward the premium on DBs is also visible throughout the league... I recall a Sporting News article where Shanahan (love him or hate him) said something along the lines that he would consider a DB in the top three rounds of the draft every year, if a good enough one were available... in 2002, the Eagles took three DBs in the first two rounds... OK... I'll stop now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 It depends mostly on Whitner. This draft is marked by Whitner, and what we turned down in order to take him. After this, while looking at the Bills draft at this early stage, one is still left to wonder as to why the stupid, inexplicable emphasis on yet more defensive backs. If your scenario holds true, it would be something of an afterthought imo. Levy chose to focus his early draft resources on defensive backs. If either of the DTs is a good player, it would be pretty much a wash. That said, I am thrilled by what I have seen of Williams. 753110[/snapback] What, exactly, did we turn down for Whitner? We have no idea what kind of trades were there, if any, so we can throw that out. Ngata? Doesn't seem to fit the DT mold that we are looking for. Bunkley? He's been complete crap so far. A QB? JP has the best chance out of all of them, having a year in the NFL as a starter under his belt, it'd be stupid to give up on him. Wimbley? I'm not sold on him, he's a tweener at best. What O-line pick would you have taken at #8? Davin Joseph? Nick Mangold? Talk about bigger reaches then the so called reach for Whitner. So please fill me in on what we gave up to draft Whitner, because quite honestly I don't see anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-gunner Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Whitner was a solid pick...it's been way too long since we have had quality safties at either spot. Like someone mentioned earlier..Mcargo is still pretty raw,its going to take some time for him to show his potential.K.Williams is a far more polished player at this point,he has been a great suprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 What, exactly, did we turn down for Whitner? 753247[/snapback] It should also be looked at that the, "stupid, inexplicable emphasis on yet more defensive backs," is nothing but overdramatic crap. We NEEDED safety....right? You can argue about where the safety was taken, fine, but it was NEEDED. Whitner was taken. Clements is gone next year, so drafting a young CB was a must. Youboty fell to the third round and was a great pick at to do just that. So really, I guess the "stupid, inexplicable" part falls on Ko Simpson. But it wasn't planned to draft Ko Simposon. I doubt it was even planned to draft a FS. But when you have a guy like Ko drop to the second day of the draft, you grab him. It was a pick of opportunity. And Marv said he wanted to draft Kyle Williams at that point, but everyone convinced him to take Ko, so we didn't even lose out on anything. Yes, we could have, and probably even should have, taken OL earlier. But with Lawyer Milloy being cut and Vincent and Clements likely gone next year, that "stupid inexplicable emphasis on defensive backs" most likely saved our defense from being a sieve next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 The thing about this draft is that we got SICK value for the DB picks when you take them all together. Ko and Youboty, should they live up to their pre-draft expectation, could both end up beign steals. Donte is the real question mark given his draft position, but if he pans out as a solid pick, then we just revamped 3/4 of our future starting secondary in a single draft. I think that Williams being a stud can certainly go a long way toward offsetting things if McCargo should end up being a flop. If we take four starters out of this draft, I think you have to say it was clearly a success - regardless of where people were drafted. I think you also have to consider the fact that McNally has been quite high on Brad Butler, too....he's clearly much more raw than the other four players, but who knows? I'm pretty happy with this draft, though I have to admit I was really freaked out at first. GO MARV!! GO BILLS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Is Marv a genius or a goat? I say he leans a bit more toward the goat side because of what he gave up to get McCargo, but Kyle would save his bacon. PS-This question is purely hypothetical of course as it is much too early to tell, so save the drama for your mama. It is just a question which was thrown out over a couple beers the other day. 753104[/snapback] Why did you spin it this way? Why not consider all the picks we took? What if most of those end up playing or starting for years to come? It's like you have some secret vendetta wording your question like you have. Most fans (even on other teams) would've considered whether or not they drafted well in any particular year. I have a feeling we did quite well this year but won't know for certain for another 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted August 27, 2006 Author Share Posted August 27, 2006 Why did you spin it this way? Why not consider all the picks we took? What if most of those end up playing or starting for years to come? It's like you have some secret vendetta wording your question like you have. Most fans (even on other teams) would've considered whether or not they drafted well in any particular year. I have a feeling we did quite well this year but won't know for certain for another 2-3 years. 753303[/snapback] Because both were DTs and we gave up an extra day one pick (potenial good player) for McCargo...like I said in my orignal post: PS-This question is purely hypothetical of course as it is much too early to tell, so save the drama for your mama. It is just a question which was thrown out over a couple beers the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Sound familiar, Jason Peters (stud) Mike Williams (bust) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 What, exactly, did we turn down for Whitner? We have no idea what kind of trades were there, if any, so we can throw that out. Ngata? Doesn't seem to fit the DT mold that we are looking for. Bunkley? He's been complete crap so far. A QB? JP has the best chance out of all of them, having a year in the NFL as a starter under his belt, it'd be stupid to give up on him. Wimbley? I'm not sold on him, he's a tweener at best. What O-line pick would you have taken at #8? Davin Joseph? Nick Mangold? Talk about bigger reaches then the so called reach for Whitner. So please fill me in on what we gave up to draft Whitner, because quite honestly I don't see anything. 753247[/snapback] Can't say I agree with you here Bluefire. Don't get me wrong I like Whitner and while I wasn't sold on the pick at first I am glad he was our selection at 8. But Bunkley and Wimblely have both been impressive so far in their young careers. Bunkley hasn't seen that much time due to a lengthy holdout but has played pretty well when given the opportunity. Wimbley looks like he's going to be an absolute stud. He had a great tackle for a loss and forced a fumble against Nall in limited action yesterday. That guy is extremely explosive and looks like he's going to be a special player in this league. As far as our draft as a whole, I hated it at first but have really started to change my mind in the weeks that followed. I think we'll see that Marv and Modrack got some great value in the middle to late rounds and that most these guys will contribute sooner than later. Lets not forget that DTs usually take a while to develop, so I'm not to worried about McCargo yet and Kyle Williams has been a pleasant surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Can't say I agree with you here Bluefire. Don't get me wrong I like Whitner and while I wasn't sold on the pick at first I am glad he was our selection at 8. But Bunkley and Wimblely have both been impressive so far in their young careers. Bunkley hasn't seen that much time due to a lengthy holdout but has played pretty well when given the opportunity. Wimbley looks like he's going to be an absolute stud. He had a great tackle for a loss and forced a fumble against Nall in limited action yesterday. That guy is extremely explosive and looks like he's going to be a special player in this league. 753315[/snapback] Wimbley looked good against our backups? What a surprise. Bunkley's been so-so during the times that I've watched him in pre-season, against versus backups, making me think he wouldn't have necessarily been better then Whitner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Wimbley looked good against our backups? What a surprise. Bunkley's been so-so during the times that I've watched him in pre-season, against versus backups, making me think he wouldn't have necessarily been better then Whitner. 753330[/snapback] The first good play he made was against our starters, the fumble against the second string. I like what I see from him, but who the fug knows......time will tell I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 It should also be looked at that the, "stupid, inexplicable emphasis on yet more defensive backs," is nothing but overdramatic crap. We NEEDED safety....right? You can argue about where the safety was taken, fine, but it was NEEDED. Whitner was taken. Clements is gone next year, so drafting a young CB was a must. Youboty fell to the third round and was a great pick at to do just that. So really, I guess the "stupid, inexplicable" part falls on Ko Simpson. But it wasn't planned to draft Ko Simposon. And Marv said he wanted to draft Kyle Williams at that point, but everyone convinced him to take Ko, so we didn't even lose out on anything. Yes, we could have, and probably even should have, taken OL earlier. But with Lawyer Milloy being cut and Vincent and Clements likely gone next year, that "stupid inexplicable emphasis on defensive backs" most likely saved our defense from being a sieve next year. 753275[/snapback] The secondary is a place where free agents are out the all the time. Besides, the Bills (and Marv) have a doccumented history of using their early draft selections on defensive backs, and then letting them walk in free agency. T. Smith, Clements, Burress, Winfield are examples of this, and Clements, as YOU say, is likely to join this losing parade. You might enjoy this and/or think that it is a good way to build a winning football team. I disagree. >>>>I doubt it was even planned to draft a FS. But when you have a guy like Ko drop to the second day of the draft, you grab him.<<<< A guy like Ko Simpson? Not sure what you mean by that. He was slated to go earlier, right? Are you indicating that this makes him a good selection? Well, Whitner was slated to go much later. Does this make him a bad pick? You see, I don't buy into this concept. Any way you slice it, we had 5 picks in the first 4 rounds, and came away with 3 defensive backs and a DT. In the process, we are said to have spurned multiple offers to trade down and gain yet additional picks. Again, if this sits right, or even looks like a good thing to you, great! From where I sit, it looks like your view is poorly ananlyzed "crap." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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