Dibs Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 According to her, she was walking in front of them for half an hour. It wasn't like she was leaving. And there were many people there that you couldn't see on the video, and much more going on than the few mintues of video caught. Do you really think there was a group of cops in riot gear becuase of one lady? No, they were there to control a mob. Not always possible to cuff and stuff a large group of protesters. Couple other areas to note: After she was shot the first time she immediatley turned and started showing off for the cameras. Yeah, she's just as innocent as can be. After she was shot the first time, in the leg, SHE DIDN'T LEAVE!!! These people were instigating the cops because their mob mentality told them they were invincible. They are lucky they weren't hit with batons. 748080[/snapback] Did you watch the footage? I don't care what had previously happened nor what was happening with others, to shoot that woman was wrong, plain & simple. You could not get a better embodiment of peaceful protester. Shiit, she is a lawyer who was only there because the courtroom was closed. By your rationale, THIS GUY should have been run down because he was told for days not to be there. The woman & the guy in the link represent the American ideal/dream....the police actions is the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Give me all the footage from that day and I'll put together a 2 minute piece that will tell a completely different story. Funny how it is always "peaceful" protesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Give me all the footage from that day and I'll put together a 2 minute piece that will tell a completely different story. Funny how it is always "peaceful" protesting... 748218[/snapback] But editing footage to show things how you want them to be seen will not make you right. The footage is clear of the woman. Elizabeth Ritter The article(thanks millbank) shows what sort of person she is. Why do you defend the police in this instance. FYI, I am not anti-establishment/police/world trade/democracy/law/etc/etc/etc/etc I am pro all of those things....that is why when the police shoot peaceful protesters in the back(walking away!!) I do not defend the police. When the protesters are spitting/throwing things/etc/etc & the police are in the thick of it, I defend the police if they step over the line. Just because radical hippee types instantly jump to condemn everything the police & authorities do, does not mean that sometimes they do not deserve to be condemned for their actions. This case seems to be one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Agreed.Anybody that would stuff their pansy ass in full riot gear and hide behind a bunch of their buddies so they could stand back at a distance and shoot unarmed women in the face is definitely a gutless faggot. 747802[/snapback] Unfair Bro. At almost every riot/protest scene (Crown Heights being one exception), cops simply follow orders. "Gutless faggot?" Please. Also... >>>Miami police was the lead police agency during the FTAA. Miami Police Chief John Timoney declined comment for this article.<<< I worked for Chief Timoney when he was a captain, and can tell you that he is one of the most decent men I have ever known. He was loved by both police officers AND community residents. Many people were upset when he was not named commissioner (they gave it to Safir who was a Fed, but turned out to be a good man). If there was not more to the story, Chief Timoney would not put up with this type of thing. Perhaps cuffing her and tossing her in a van might have provoked a bloody riot; I don't know because I wasn't there. What I do know is that you were harsh on these cops, and that they in fact have a great boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Unfair Bro. At almost every riot/protest scene (Crown Heights being one exception), cops simply follow orders. "Gutless faggot?" Please. Also... >>>Miami police was the lead police agency during the FTAA. Miami Police Chief John Timoney declined comment for this article.<<< I worked for Chief Timoney when he was a captain, and can tell you that he is one of the most decent men I have ever known. He was loved by both police officers AND community residents. Many people were upset when he was not named commissioner (they gave it to Safir who was a Fed, but turned out to be a good man). If there was not more to the story, Chief Timoney would not put up with this type of thing. Perhaps cuffing her and tossing her in a van might have provoked a bloody riot; I don't know because I wasn't there. What I do know is that you were harsh on these cops, and that they in fact have a great boss. 748242[/snapback] I don't know anything about their boss & I guess if he is as good as you say he will act, but.....did you watch the speech given to the police by their Sargent(?). Those police need some serious re-training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 According to her, she was walking in front of them for half an hour. Walking in front of them?! Whoa.......it's a wonder that nobody was killed! If somebody was walking in front of me for too long I'd definitely shoot them in the face. Unfair Bro. At almost every riot/protest scene cops simply follow orders. I'm not blaming the guy who gave the orders because I don't think he gave orders to "shoot that harmless woman in the back while she was walking away". The orders were probably along the lines of "OK, time to break this up. Authorization of non-lethal weapons is approved", and I don't have a problem with that. I was talking about the idiot who at that point decided that a retreating woman was an appropriate target. And then to shoot her in the face while she's laying on the ground, cowering behind a piece of paper? No Chief ordered that and in my opinion the guy who pulled the trigger is a dishonorable, gutless punk who doesn't deserve to be on the job. Cya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 The only thing I see wrong with this scene is that the police insulted cockroaches by comparing them to protesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Walking in front of them?! Whoa.......it's a wonder that nobody was killed!If somebody was walking in front of me for too long I'd definitely shoot them in the face. I'm not blaming the guy who gave the orders because I don't think he gave orders to "shoot that harmless woman in the back while she was walking away". The orders were probably along the lines of "OK, time to break this up. Authorization of non-lethal weapons is approved", and I don't have a problem with that. I was talking about the idiot who at that point decided that a retreating woman was an appropriate target. And then to shoot her in the face while she's laying on the ground, cowering behind a piece of paper? No Chief ordered that and in my opinion the guy who pulled the trigger is a dishonorable, gutless punk who doesn't deserve to be on the job. Cya 748322[/snapback] I think there is little question whoever fired the shots was, as you say, a gutless punk. There are great cops and there are punks (just like in every other job). I've now read several accounts and still can't find a single justification for this. As for the the cop who gave the "pep talk"...he needs to be in another line of work. PROTECT AND SERVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I honestly can't believe they fired at her when she was hiding behind the sign. Rubber bullets are considered 'less-lethal' ammo, but are certainly not safe, especially when fired at one's head. I believe I remember a story of a college gal in Boston standing in the street after the Red Sox beat the Yanks, and she took a 'less-lethal' pellet in the eye and died. The cops said they were aiming for someone else who was throwing bottles, but still, they were firing head-high. I don't think there's any doubt that when a group of protesters get together, a mob mentality can easily (and often does) take over. While we expect police officers to hold themselves to a higher standard, it's clear that their own mob mentality can easily effect their actions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I'm not blaming the guy who gave the orders because I don't think he gave orders to "shoot that harmless woman in the back while she was walking away". The orders were probably along the lines of "OK, time to break this up. Authorization of non-lethal weapons is approved", and I don't have a problem with that. I was talking about the idiot who at that point decided that a retreating woman was an appropriate target. And then to shoot her in the face while she's laying on the ground, cowering behind a piece of paper? No Chief ordered that and in my opinion the guy who pulled the trigger is a dishonorable, gutless punk who doesn't deserve to be on the job.Cya 748322[/snapback] Maybe you are correct, but neither of us was there. With all due respect, I also doubt that you are schooled in riot control. Videos could easily be shown of the Crown Heights Riots which make police officers appear to be brutal. Meanwhile, cops were injured down the street by being hit with bricks, cherry bombs, and bottles of urine tossed from rooftops. Shots were also fired at police officers. I say this because I was there, however I don't expect you to necessarily believe me. I must admit that when I saw this video, my inclination would have been to simply subdue this c$nt, and simply take her away. That said, neither you nor I really know what was happening down the street nor around the corner. It is important for cops to get home safely at night. You know why? Because if I were to have been murdered while doing my job, you don't stand a chance in Hell. Think about this for a second if you will. Police Officers are armed and trained. That said, absolutely nothing matters as much as experience. Your chances for survival would appear to be bleak at best. You are a young guy who plays tackle football. You are probably tough enough to rip out my adam's apple and hand it to me, and I have no problem at all with this. The thing is, I dare say that I am more equipped to handle violent psychotics than are you. I also think (forgive me, my friend) that you would be at a loss as to what to do in a riot, whereas I could leave home now and it really wouldn't be such a big deal. Not at all. Bottom line? 3 things: 1) Neither of us was there. 2) Don't be too quick to judge, my friend. 3) Come to RWS on 10/22. We will forget this stuff and cheer for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Go Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 She was inciting a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 neither of us was there "You weren't there" is one of my favorite lines and I simply can't argue with it. We'll never know enough to be sure if it was an appropriate response but it just seemed excessive from the limited tape available. I must admit that when I saw this video, my inclination would have been to simply subdue this c$nt, and simply take her away. That said, neither you nor I really know what was happening down the street nor around the corner. That was my inclination as well. And what was happening elsewhere shouldn't change that, imo. If there were shltheads causing real trouble elsewhere then why waste time unloading on some retreating woman? If she wasn't complying with orders then secure her, remove her and get on to the real business at hand. It is important for cops to get home safely at night. I totally agree, and not only because both my bro-in-law and buddy are statetroopers. And if I thought for a splitsecond that the woman posed even the hint of a threat I would have supported their actions without reservation. But when they shot her she was either walking away or cowering on the ground, posing no threat to anybody in the area. You are a young guy who plays tackle football. I've got a 16 year old daughter so I'm not that young. And I just had back surgery a couple weeks ago so I'm on the shelf for this season and possibly permanently. As for the rest of that sentence, I'd rather cut off my own fingers than put a move on a good man like you. I also think (forgive me, my friend) that you would be at a loss as to what to do in a riot, Now here's the only part of your post with which I really disagree. I wasn't born tall, handsome, rich, or brilliant; but I was granted a preternatural calm in hairy situations and a really poor sense of self-preservation, which really makes for a great combination. I've been in the middle of riots among tens of thousands, I've had bleeding convulsing guys dying in my arms, I've been attacked by Rottweilers, I've been tear-gassed, I've been attacked with ballbats and lengths of hose stuffed with copper, I've been knocked off ladders by lightning and I've been upside down in a truck cab underwater; none of that good fun has ever elicited any more from me than a chuckle and a wry "Well, you don't see this every day". 1) Neither of us was there. Agreed 2) Don't be too quick to judge, my friend. Agreed Come to RWS on 10/22. We will forget this stuff and cheer for the Bills. Agreed with much gusto brother. Especially if it involves a cold one. Cya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I've been in the middle of riots among tens of thousands, I've had bleeding convulsing guys dying in my arms, I've been attacked by Rottweilers, I've been tear-gassed, I've been attacked with ballbats and lengths of hose stuffed with copper, 748877[/snapback] Maybe this should tell you you haven't made the best of decisions at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Maybe this should tell you you haven't made the best of decisions at times. 748892[/snapback] Gee, you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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