It ain't a problem until it is a trend

[Kelly the Dog]

JP fumbling doesn't have me worried at all.

 

Yet.

 

Quarterbacks will fumble. There aren't any that don't. He isn't known as a fumbler. He wasn't a fumbler in college. He wasn't a fumbler last year. He wasn't a fumbler last week. This week he fumbled twice. That's two too many. They were clearly his fault and we can't win if he does it a lot. In fact, I'm one of his biggest supporters but I don't want him in if he does it a lot.

 

Losman was never a turnover machine. He may have thrown a ton of bad passes last year but he didn't throw a lot of INTs. He played half a season and he threw 8. That's 16 for the year in his first year. Not a lot. Not a trend. few too many but not a major problem. He also threw 8 TDs. That also equates to 16 a year. That's bad. That's a trend. That's a problem. He doesn't throw enough TDs. It's something we need to worry about because it's a trend. This year, he simply must throw for a lot more TDs. If he doesn't, it will continue to be a problem and we may need to look elsewhere.

 

Right now, there is no reason to dwell at all on his fumbles. It is not a trend. If he does it a lot more. Then and only then will it need to be re-evaluated.

[generaLee83]

JP fumbling doesn't have me worried at all.

 

Yet.

 

Quarterbacks will fumble. There aren't any that don't. He isn't known as a fumbler. He wasn't a fumbler in college. He wasn't a fumbler last year. He wasn't a fumbler last week. This week he fumbled twice. That's two too many. They were clearly his fault and we can't win if he does it a lot. In fact, I'm one of his biggest supporters but I don't want him in if he does it a lot.

 

Losman was never a turnover machine. He may have thrown a ton of bad passes last year but he didn't throw a lot of INTs. He played half a season and he threw 8. That's  16 for the year in his first year. Not a lot. Not a trend.  few too many but not a major problem. He also threw 8 TDs. That also equates to 16 a year. That's bad. That's a trend. That's a problem. He doesn't throw enough TDs. It's something we need to worry about because it's a trend. This year, he simply must throw for a lot more TDs. If he doesn't, it will continue to be a problem and we may need to look elsewhere.

 

Right now, there is no reason to dwell at all on his fumbles. It is not a trend. If he does it  a lot more. Then and only then will it need to be re-evaluated.

747155[/snapback]

 

Good post as always fair and balanced one.

 

I agree with the minor concern over the fumbles. It is correctable and probably will be.

 

What really concerns me is that I thought that this team was building depth through free agency and the draft. What I observe is that our 2nd and 3rd stringers are getting manhandled. This may not matter now but it will come week 5 or 6 when the strain of the season begins to show up in the form of injuries. This is definitely beginning to look like a trend and it shoudl concern all of us.

[inkman]

Good post as always fair and balanced one.

 

I agree with the minor concern over the fumbles.  It is correctable and probably will be.

 

What really concerns me is that I thought that this team was building depth through free agency and the draft.  What I observe is that our 2nd and 3rd stringers are getting manhandled.  This may not matter now but it will come week 5 or 6 when the strain of the season begins to show up in the form of injuries.  This is definitely beginning to look like a trend and it shoudl concern all of us.

747156[/snapback]

 

 

I think the major problem with the backups is the extreme lack of depth along the lines. On the OL, Preston and Butler are serviceable back ups. On the DL, Kelsay and McCargo are quality but on both sides of the ball, their is no one after them. McFarland, Pennington, Mogan, Sape, Anderson, and the other cast of non-descript charcters suck a lot.

[Brandon]

I wouldn't worry about the fumbles at all. He's never shown a tendency to be a fumbler before. He just had a bad game in that regard.

 

I'm not too concerned with TD passes or even INTs. As long as he doesn't throw more than 1 INT per game on average, I can live with it. TD passes can be misleading. More is always better, less isn't always bad. Troy Aikman had only one season with 20+ TD passes. You have to take the overall performance of the offense into account as well. I also think that the often ignored stats of yards per attempt and completion are very important. If JP is averaging 7.0+ yards per attempt and 12.0+ per completion, he's probably doing something right, regardless of what the TD/INT ratio says. He was close on the latter last year, but has some work to do on the former.

[Bill from NYC]

JP fumbling doesn't have me worried at all.

 

Yet.

 

Quarterbacks will fumble. There aren't any that don't. He isn't known as a fumbler. He wasn't a fumbler in college. He wasn't a fumbler last year. He wasn't a fumbler last week. This week he fumbled twice. That's two too many. They were clearly his fault and we can't win if he does it a lot. In fact, I'm one of his biggest supporters but I don't want him in if he does it a lot.

 

Losman was never a turnover machine. He may have thrown a ton of bad passes last year but he didn't throw a lot of INTs. He played half a season and he threw 8. That's  16 for the year in his first year. Not a lot. Not a trend.  few too many but not a major problem. He also threw 8 TDs. That also equates to 16 a year. That's bad. That's a trend. That's a problem. He doesn't throw enough TDs. It's something we need to worry about because it's a trend. This year, he simply must throw for a lot more TDs. If he doesn't, it will continue to be a problem and we may need to look elsewhere.

 

Right now, there is no reason to dwell at all on his fumbles. It is not a trend. If he does it  a lot more. Then and only then will it need to be re-evaluated.

747155[/snapback]

 

Don't you think it somewhat depends on how well Nall plays? Or, would you rather hand the job to JP under any and all conditions?

 

He was already handed the job once for no reason and it was a disaster.

I like what Jauron is doing. JP needs to earn the job this time. He has talent, but he is not some sort of prodigy, unless one wants to overlook all of his errors and faults and make believe that he is.

 

That said, worry not! If JP is 10% as good as YOU think he is, Canton is a snap, let alone a slot as the Bills starting QB.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

What really concerns me is that I thought that this team was building depth through free agency and the draft.

No, what the Bills were building is starting quality through FA and the draft FIRST. The depth will come later.

[Kelly the Dog]

Don't you think it somewhat depends on how well Nall plays? Or, would you rather hand the job to JP under any and all conditions?

 

He was already handed the job once for no reason and it was a disaster.

I like what Jauron is doing. JP needs to earn the job this time. He has talent, but he is not some sort of prodigy, unless one wants to overlook all of his errors and faults and make believe that he is.

 

That said, worry not! If JP is 10% as good as YOU think he is, Canton is a snap, let alone a slot as the Bills starting QB.

747197[/snapback]

1. No. Nall got himself hurt. Not his fault but it ruined his chances. He fell too far behind. If he didnt get hurt, he likely would be starting the Browns game, but he did, so he won't. Jauron has been pretty upfront about this all the way. JP wasn't handed the job under any conditions, he won the job under these conditions: He played the best, Holcomb played terrible in practice and games, Nall played erratic in practice and got hurt and then played well in mop up time. Those are the conditions and the reason JP will start.

 

2. Name one poster out of the 5000 here that has said anything remotely close to that. I have yet to see one.

 

3. I have never said JP was great. I have said repeatedly that he has great tools and we're not sure if he is even good. I have not once said he was great but dozens and dozens of times I have said he was terrible. Or played lousy. Or cannot do a or b. Or we don't know if he will be good or great. The only thing I have ever said about him is that it's obvious he should start because he has the most potential and best tools and best pedigree.

[jarthur31]

Yes, his mistakes may be correctable but not his internal clock. If he doesn't realize he's holding he ball too long, he never will. IMO, 4 secs is enough time to make your reads and make a throw. I think JP needs to be put on a timer to fix this.

[RayFinkle]

JP fumbling doesn't have me worried at all.

 

Yet.

 

Quarterbacks will fumble. There aren't any that don't. He isn't known as a fumbler. He wasn't a fumbler in college. He wasn't a fumbler last year. He wasn't a fumbler last week. This week he fumbled twice. That's two too many. They were clearly his fault and we can't win if he does it a lot. In fact, I'm one of his biggest supporters but I don't want him in if he does it a lot.

 

Losman was never a turnover machine. He may have thrown a ton of bad passes last year but he didn't throw a lot of INTs. He played half a season and he threw 8. That's  16 for the year in his first year. Not a lot. Not a trend.  few too many but not a major problem. He also threw 8 TDs. That also equates to 16 a year. That's bad. That's a trend. That's a problem. He doesn't throw enough TDs. It's something we need to worry about because it's a trend. This year, he simply must throw for a lot more TDs. If he doesn't, it will continue to be a problem and we may need to look elsewhere.

 

Right now, there is no reason to dwell at all on his fumbles. It is not a trend. If he does it  a lot more. Then and only then will it need to be re-evaluated.

747155[/snapback]

 

A little break down on some current QBs average fumbles based off of career regular season stats:

 

FAVRE fumbles once every 58 attempts

BRADY fumbles once every 54 attempts

R JOHNSON fumbles once every 62 attempts

CULPEPPER (the fumble machine) fumbles once every 32 attempts

LOSMAN fumbles once every 29 attempts

[Trip]

A little break down on some current QBs average fumbles based off of career regular season stats:

 

FAVRE fumbles once every 58 attempts

BRADY fumbles once every 54 attempts

R JOHNSON fumbles once every 62 attempts

CULPEPPER (the fumble machine) fumbles once every 32 attempts

LOSMAN fumbles once every 29 attempts

747502[/snapback]

 

Yeah, and those players have a lot of NFL games under their belts.

 

It's useless to compare JP's stats so far, to current NFLers careers.

 

Compare other QB's first 9 games if you want it apples to apples.

 

And Losman compares favorably to a lot of very good ones in his first 9 NFL games.

 

And it looks - so far - like he's ready to take another step.

 

So, we'll see.

[Kelly the Dog]

A little break down on some current QBs average fumbles based off of career regular season stats:

 

FAVRE fumbles once every 58 attempts

BRADY fumbles once every 54 attempts

R JOHNSON fumbles once every 62 attempts

CULPEPPER (the fumble machine) fumbles once every 32 attempts

LOSMAN fumbles once every 29 attempts

747502[/snapback]

Losman played half a season last year, his first, and lost 3 fumbles.

Brady played a full season and lost three.

Culpepper played less than Losman and lost three.

Favre played a full season and lost seven.

Johnson played himself out of the league.

[RayFinkle]

Yeah, and those players have a lot of NFL games under their belts. 

 

It's useless to compare JP's stats so far, to current NFLers careers.

 

Compare other QB's first 9 games if you want it apples to apples.

 

And Losman compares favorably to a lot of very good ones in his first 9 NFL games.

 

And it looks - so far - like he's ready to take another step.

 

So, we'll see.

747510[/snapback]

good point.

 

FAVRE 39

BRADY 34

RJ 53

CULPEPPER 43

JP 29

[Trip]

Okay, but I guess my real point is, and many have made it many times, we don't know what JP is yet.

 

Almost all QB's are bad in their first 9 games.

 

Great ones are bad (Aikman, Bradshaw, etc. just about all of them except for a handful like Brady and Montana) good ones are bad (Eli, etc.) and bad ones are obviously bad.

 

JP can still fall into any of the categories.

 

The stage he's in now in his development is where the good ones and the great ones start to pick it up quickly, and it looks like in the last two games he's doing that.

 

The fumbles are no concern, like the Fair and Balanced one said.

[Kelly the Dog]

Go back and watch the San Diego game last year when he had three of his seven fumbles.

[Trip]

I remember those quite well.

 

I'm still not concerned about it.

 

If he keeps doing it, then I'm worried.

 

Drew Bledsoe (and just about everyone else) has had multiple fumble games.

 

Fumbles happen when QB's start scrambling around trying to make plays (unless you're Bledsoe). As he gets more comfortable, the ball will start coming out quicker and he'll learn to throw it away.

[Kelly the Dog]

I remember those quite well.

 

I'm still not concerned about it.

 

If he keeps doing it, then I'm worried.

 

Drew Bledsoe (and just about everyone else) has had multiple fumble games.

 

Fumbles happen when QB's start scrambling around trying to make plays (unless you're Bledsoe). As he gets more comfortable, the ball will start coming out quicker and he'll learn to throw it away.

747533[/snapback]

None of them were a problem. The one he lost was a perfect handoff to McGahee and McGahee just dropped it. The Chargers recovered and the NFL credits that to the QB. One he got hit from behind, fumbled and just fell on it. The third he was scrambling and ran to the sideline and dropped the ball OB. None of them were bad handling of the ball like both of yesterdays were.

[Trip]

That Chargers game was depressing.

 

Hopefully we don't have to sit though any of those this year.

[HurlyBurly51]

I think JP needs to be put on a timer to fix this.

747487[/snapback]

 

Oh no, I just had a Drew Blesdoe flashback

[generaLee83]

A little break down on some current QBs average fumbles based off of career regular season stats:

 

FAVRE fumbles once every 58 attempts

BRADY fumbles once every 54 attempts

R JOHNSON fumbles once every 62 attempts

CULPEPPER (the fumble machine) fumbles once every 32 attempts

LOSMAN fumbles once every 29 attempts

747502[/snapback]

 

Every single quarterback on your list has tons more attempts than JP.

 

Favre has taken over 9 million snaps in his NFL career. And no I cannot back that up but it sure sounds right.

[macaroni]

Good post as always fair and balanced one.

 

What really concerns me is that I thought that this team was building depth through free agency and the draft.

747156[/snapback]

 

 

Building depth ????????? BUILDING DEPTH??????????

 

Our starters can't play worth diddley-poo, and you want to build depth?????

 

This team needs to build an O-Line ........ this team needs to find a starting QB, this team needs to find WRs capable of starting, this team needs TKO healed to the point where he can play up to his prior levels.

 

 

We don't need no stinkin' depth, we need to build this teams starters first.