Duke Preston...no longer a center prospect?

[LabattBlue]

I noticed that all of Preston's time in the game last night was spent at OG and I believe when Fowler wasn't in there, that Geisinger was in at OC. On the bb.com depth chart, it doesn't even list Preston at OC. I assumed that he would be the backup center come opening day, but it doesn't even look like he is playing the position.

 

Has anyone at training camp noticed if he has taken any snaps at OC?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

No he hasn't. He's been playing backup RG so far and was moved there sometime earlier this year. Geisinger is the backup center now.

[Pyrite Gal]

I noticed that all of Preston's time in the game last night was spent at OG and I believe when Fowler wasn't in there, that Geisinger was in at OC.  On the bb.com depth chart, it doesn't even list Preston at OC.  I assumed that he would be the backup center come opening day, but it doesn't even look like he is playing the position.

 

Has anyone at training camp noticed if he has taken any snaps at OC?

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Great question. I would not assume that just because Geisinger was in at back-up C though that it means we have given up on Preston as the answer if Fowler cannot answer the call (a real possibility as he has suffered a series of injuries that cost him gametime in his brief career). I think Fowler has demonstrated with is play taking the job from longtime Vike Cory Withrow last year, getting kudos for improved play by tthe Vikes with him in front of Culpepper, pulling off a great win streak with him doing C for Brad Johnson and then interestingly the Vikes doing the elfoldo coinciding with his injuy that Vikes played well with him in and poorly without him last year.

 

I think this (and also a nice feature about him during the Bills game) indicates he is the real deal as a starter player and not simply just a Vikes reject. However, his injury hiostory makes having a Plan B at center a definite need.

 

Given that Preston also gets the first call if/when Villarial goes down and CV is well enough into the backside of his career it probably is a question of when, we really need an answer at back-up C as it will be impossible for Preston to be in two places at one time.

 

The key I think is that the Bills run game was productive in the second half and the question was who was in there during this run. I assume it was Gesinger and if he is worthy of being a back-up that will be good news for the Bills.

 

I am confident (even with some questionable play by Reyes last night) that the probable Bills OL starters this year are better than the starters last year (if anyone wants to defend Anderson, Teague or MW feel free). The question (even for those who judge being better than last year's crew as not meaning you are good enough) the key for the Bills is to develop plan Bs for the 5 OL positions.

 

At this point Preston, Gibson and Butler looks like it but this is a pretty shaky crew as far as back-ups because Preston is the only one of these three I even feel good about as a back-up.

[jarthur31]

Wow this is certainly very telling. Preston certainly has the size for the position but he must be dumb as a rock not to earn backup duties here.

[Nanker]

This is old news.

You can find the in-depth skinny in This D&C August 8th Article.

[port allegany]

There may also be a good side to this whole "Preston...no long a center?" question. It may be that the Bills are content with Fowler as their center for the next few years and like Preston enough to want to get him on the field somewhere. If he is a legit G prospect, then next year we could have Peters (RT), Preston, Fowler, Reyes, Gandy as a young line with some playing experience and experience playing together. From there, they could cherry-pick quality additions through the draft or free agency. Putting Preston exclusively at G might just speed up his development at that position and the transition to a younger line. Let's hope there's some logic going on in Buffalo.

[Lurker]

I assumed that he would be the backup center come opening day, but it doesn't even look like he is playing the position.

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I don't think they have much confidence in CV being effective/healthy for very long, so Duke might be in the lineup sooner than we think. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I wonder if it was just a coincidence that both of WM's running plays were to the right side -- and both got stuffed. This situation bears watching, IMO.

[Phlegm Alley]

It is all about versatility. Mouse said that if you can play multiple positions on the OL, then that makes you much more of a commodity to the team. I'm sure DP would be able to play C in case of injuries.

[LabattBlue]

It is all about versatility.  Mouse said that if you can play multiple positions on the OL, then that makes you much more of a commodity to the team.  I'm sure DP would be able to play C in case of injuries.

742886[/snapback]

This goes back to my originial post. Is he even practicing at center?

[Mickey]

The key I think is that the Bills run game was productive in the second half and the question was who was in there during this run.  I assume it was Gesinger and if he is worthy of being a back-up that will be good news for the Bills.

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The key question is not just who was in there when we ran well but who were they up against. First string? Second? Third?

[stuckincincy]

This goes back to my originial post.  Is he even practicing at center?

742891[/snapback]

 

I'd guess he's getting some snaps. I'd also like to see him under center during the pre-season for some series.

 

Looking at DL alignments and barking out assignments when they stunt, against an opponent, is worthwhile experience.

 

Your defensive pals in practice may hit hard but do have one's best interests in mind.

 

The opposition thinks no more of you than a slab of gorgonzola and wants to remove the snot from your nose.

[Mickey]

This goes back to my originial post.  Is he even practicing at center?

742891[/snapback]

I think that Villarial is giving the coaches quite a bit of concern and that of all the back-ups, they like Preston the best so they are prepping him for RG. In fact, he is still my candidate for "biggest surprise starter" come opening day.

[JaBu]

Wow this is certainly very telling.  Preston certainly has the size for the position but he must be dumb as a rock not to earn backup duties here.

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To the contrary, Preston is very smart. As I recollect he had one of the highest wonderlic scores of our draftees that year.

 

Also, from his profile: Preston is a highly intelligent athlete who lettered four times in football and baseball at Mount Carmel High School, where he twice earned San Diego Tribune academic honors.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/preston_raymond

[Pyrite Gal]

Wow this is certainly very telling.  Preston certainly has the size for the position but he must be dumb as a rock not to earn backup duties here.

742443[/snapback]

 

I thinl this post points out a lot in that these moves may well be"telling" but what it tells a poster involves not simply what the move if but what it "tells" the observer who then posts the "obvious" conclusions to be drawn from this move.

 

Unfortunately, the poster perspectives often seem to be drawn from information the rest of the world does not have. Are there any articles posted anywhere which you would be nice enough to share with us that sites Preston as being dumb as a rock . his level of center ability in any way impacting on decisions where he will play back-up or alternately is this simply just another fact-free opinion.

 

The Bills may well be playing Preston a ton or even exclusively at RG because:

 

1. They are comfortable with the abilities of this man who played C in college to operate as a back-up C here with only a small amount of reps taken by him at C in games. If they feel he needs more reps at RG as a first priority then the move to give him more or even all of his time in this first quarter of camp may have nothing to do with his proficiency at C and in fact may be driven by the Bills already being comfortable with his ability to back-up there if need be.

 

2. They really want Geisinger to take this job as they need someone to fill this role anyway in addition to Preston if he is there first choice as he more likely is going to have to spell CV and he cannot play two positions at once no matter how smart or dumb he is. It makes all the sense in the world if you are trying to assess or develop Geisinger as being a quality C to give him every rep you can early to maximize his training or simply to choose a Plan B at C sooner.

 

What you say may be right, but there is zero outside info to substantiate your conclusions as best as I can tell.

 

In addition, just as there is a remote chance your take is correct, not onloy could the exact opposite take also be true and be a conclusion consistent with these actions, but in fact the take that they are comfortabl with Preston's C skill that they feel no need to give him reps at the position may also be unlikely but makes more sense that your take on the meaning of these moves.

[Dibs]

...What you say may be right, but there is zero outside info to substantiate your conclusions as best as I can tell....

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Awesome isn't it

[Phlegm Alley]

Preston takes snaps at Center

 

Duke and Geisenger seitched spots yesterday at practice. Preston, apparently, is going to be the versatile OL this year, subbing in at G and C if needed, and hopefully Geisinger will be able to contribute the same.

[Dan Gross]

Preston takes snaps at Center

 

Duke and Geisenger seitched spots yesterday at practice.  Preston, apparently, is going to be the versatile OL this year, subbing in at G and C if needed, and hopefully Geisinger will be able to contribute the same.

749084[/snapback]

 

As stated in the link, they will only dress 7 OL for games, which means 1 "inside" backup (C + G) and 1 "outside" backup (T). Since they knew Preston knows the center role they have been working him at guard to prepare him to be that "inside" backup.

[Phlegm Alley]

As stated in the link, they will only dress 7 OL for games, which means 1 "inside" backup (C + G) and 1 "outside" backup (T).  Since they knew Preston knows the center role they have been working him at guard to prepare him to be that "inside" backup.

749097[/snapback]

 

 

I'm pretty worried about our OL depth this year, especially at the Tackle positions. I wonder if the FO will be active once cutdowns start taking effect one week from today, and try to bolster this OL.

[Pyrite Gal]

I'm pretty worried about our OL depth this year, especially at the Tackle positions.  I wonder if the FO will be active once cutdowns start taking effect one week from today, and try to bolster this OL.

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I think the most worrisome thing in terms of how folks are being used (really a far better measure that the "professional" assessments of us fans about how folks are bending and whether players are taking the right angle on plays) is that Greg Jerman appears to be our #3 tackle who will fill in for Peters and Gandy if they needa blow or gosh forbid get hurt.

 

I think folks are missing the point if they merely focus on our starting 5 on OL.

 

1. They (Gandy, Reyes, Fowler, CV (soon to be Preston), Peters are simply much better players than last year's starters (Gandy, Bennie, Teague, CV, MW). Last year's starting five proved to be such a huge disappointment with MW not continuing on trajectory which saw him improve from the bust he was in the 04 OTAs to the his game ball winning performances during the winning streak and Bennie proving to be a total misread by JMac once he got some money in his pocket, and Teague being game but overmatched at C it may not be saying much that they are better than last year, but the starting OL is vastly improved.

 

In fact, if one looks at the performance in the real world in 05 of these players there is good reason to hope/expect this year's starting 5 to perform well.

 

Gandy- He surprised me and most others by being an adequate performer at LT. he is still a youngster but moving into his prime as a player and is working under an experience position coach (a big difference for the Bills as we suffered under Vinky and Ruel under TD/GW). OL players get dinged all the time and can suffer downturns, but experience and chemistry matter lots to the performance of this unit and a good player who remains lucky with injuries can be productive even late in his career. It is never impossible that an OL player will implode (ala MW/Bennie) but the likelihood appears to be Gandy should play adequately once again and there is the possiblity he may really surprise getting and even deserving a big contract.

 

Reyes- I think it is a superficial read to judge him as a mere Panther reject, because they did pass on resigning him but not because he is a bad player, but because they had a well-regarded draft pick whose contract was beginning to escalate in payment in Mathis such that they went to him as the far better long-term bet to start. The good news for Bills watchers is that NC apparently was set to go with Mathis last year but did not because Reyes was playing well at RG and sitting him might disrupt the chemistry of a productive OL.

 

There are questions about Reyes such as why he did not inspire much of a bidding war since he is not that old and because he played well at RG last year and we have him slotted in at LG.. Still, he should be at least adequate and as a player who can still get a long-term deal he has something personal to play for in terms of bucks as well as pride.

 

Fowler- He is a natural center who was well-regarded in the draft rather than a shifted from LT player who picked up C because he is bright as Teague was. Yet, even though Teague shiwed he could perform eventually in terms of doing line calls, AND snapping to the QB (thank gosh for Bledsoe having good hands as his early shotgyun snaps were often an adventure), AND performing athletically as an OL player. However, i always felt that though Teague could do each of these individual tasks, that he had trouble multi-tasking when he had to do 2 or 3 of these items at the same time. None of us outside observers knows for sure what is going on on the line with an individual play, but it wouid not surprise me that in those times which he was simply bulrushed into Bledsoe's lap it was likely that he was concentrating on the mental challenge of correctly switching up the blocking scheme and an onrushing DT would put him on his butt with a strong physical move.

 

Fowler on the other hand has done well in spot appearances with CLE which drafted him (ex. he played C as a back-up in a couple of games where Suggs got 100 yards rushing for CLE) and last year when he moved to MIN, Culpepper became a more statistically productive QB when Fowler replaced Wuthrow at C and when Culpepper went down the Vikes peeled off a nice winning streak with Johnson at QB behind Fowler. Folks may want to give Johnson the credit for their improvement, but in addition to the fact it is a team effort and good results mean Fowler deservs some props, if you want to look for correlations between line-up and performance, it is interesting that the team production improved when Fowler took the C job and the QB Culoepper was the same.

 

Johnson derserves kudos because I think the win streak they had and the improvement of the OL performance owes a lot to Johnson getting rid of the ball a lot quicker than Culpepper who liked to run around (Bryant McKinnie IMHO was helped a lot when he did not have to hold blocks as long). However, it is interesting that the Vikes playoff hopes ended in their last couple of games when they were forced to go back to Withrow (this longtime Vike was eventually cut) because Fowler got hurt.

 

Fowler brings some question marks to the Bills as he has never played a full 16 games and has had some nicks which cost him games during his brief career. Though I think it is a misread to merely label him a reject because MN did not resign him (they correctly went with multi-time Pro Bowler Matt Birk as their C as he was lost last year to IR) he needs to prove he can do 16 as a starting C. It is also an open question why CLE spent a 2nd rounder on Jeff Faine soon after acquiring Fowler if he is a good enough player to start (this may well have been a BAP pick as Faine was well-regarded) and it may be just because CLE is addled and stupid when it come to player selection as they let both Fowler and Faine go and also have bad luck as big FA purchase Bentley went down with a season-ending injury early this pre-season. Ironically, while we will see whatever back-up to bentely they have starting at C this next pre-season game, two recent former Browns are going to be starting at C for the Bills and Saints.

 

At any rate, I like Fowler's athleticism as already the Bills are showing plays which utilize him as a pulling C on WM sweeps. If the Bills can pull this off such that the guard and tackel seals the inside and block DL pursuit to the outside, Fowler pulls and takes on the OLB in the second tier and with the WR eiter blocking or clearing out the CB with a crossing pattern then we will get to see the WM stiff arm on some hapless safety who come offer to stop him from going outside. I love the fact fowler is athletic enough to pull from C.

 

CV- I think that we upgrade when we move to Preston at RG given his work last year late in relief of an injured CV (WM rung up 100 yards and also the Bills were productive againsty Cin with Preston seeing significant time in relief of CV). I like CV becauswe we needed an older hand around when we cut Ruben, but he is well into the backside of his career and what used to be nicks he played through now are injuries which cost him time. I think he likely is the first OL player to do down and I like Preston as his replacement and view this as an upgrade .

 

Peters- Nothing but upsdie.

 

At any rate, folks are correct to whine about last year's OL (they sucked) but miss the boat in not recognizing that this year's starters are at the least a substantial improvement in talent (assuming Gandy gets at least a little better which by age and exoerience he should and given the likely move from CV to Preston). Even better, given the performance and production of the 2005 work of Reyes and Fowler, this group may well not simply be better than bad, but may well be adequate.

 

The big deal here I think is how long we stay lucky with injuries (in the NFL likely some OL player will go down at some awful point(s) and whether we can get development of back-ups who can fill in without missing a beat (ar at least too many beats) when a starter goes down or give them a blow when they get nicked or exhausted in a game.

 

The news that Jerman came in for Peters when Peters went down in practice the other day is a little disconcerting. Peters came back, but also Jauron articulated they plan to activate 7 OL players on Sunday. After Preston as a back-up at G and potentially C it gets open to question and when/if Preston becomes a starter I start looking for straws to draw.

 

I wished that Butler had shown enough that he got demanded reps as a back-up (a similar development accomplishment to Preston) but though the season is far from over, it looks likeJerman might be the best we can do. I feel OK with him in spot duty because he can let it all hang out for a few plays, but if he needs to pace himself to try to last as a starter his performance has not been nearly adequate to what we need.

 

I think Geisinger has gotten the C reps over Preston not becaue Geisinger has won the job, but because his performance these first two games was to see if he was up to the job. I cannot tell from TV or with my fan knowledge.

 

The key questions I have about the OL are:

 

1. How is Gobson doing and has he shown enough at G to make this roster (or even the unlikely possibility he has shown enough at G we can try him at T even though he failed there before we need help>

 

2. How is Butler developing? Can he match Preston's accomplishments?

 

3. Why is Jerman listed on the depth chart as a back-up LG as he seems to be our first call at tackle.

 

4. Anything at all on the youngsters, Pennington, Merz and even Mcfarland? None of these players can reasonably be expected to start, but they could be coached ibnto being reasonable back-ups?

 

The OL situation is not as bad as folks are saying (my guess is for a bout 4 games) and after that we need to show some forward progress in developing back-ups. Even with the usual luck of an NFL team at least one of these back-ups is not ONLY going to need to be well-coached (JMac has the resume and has shown the ability to do that) but one of these athletes is gonna have to be special. We already have gotten hit with that bolt of lightening once with Peters and if our plan is to get hit with lightening again I do not like our chances if we have to deal with a problem.

[obie_wan]

Wow this is certainly very telling.  Preston certainly has the size for the position but he must be dumb as a rock not to earn backup duties here.

742443[/snapback]

 

I think not-

 

The more intelligent reason is that they fully expect him to be starting at RG.