OGTEleven Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Turn it around. The cancer kid coach could have specifically put the cancer kid after the slugger, knowing that they would have to pitch to the slugger to keep from hurting the cancer kid's feelings. Play the guilt card. 740888[/snapback] So he was planning on being down one run in the bottom of the last inning with the tying run at third and two outs and his slugger due up? That guy is a genius. The other coach happened upon a situation, took advantage of it, and revealed his true (lack of) character. Then, after the game, he cemented the image by denying any knowledge of the kid's condition. You know, the kid that had survived cancer, visiited with the President of the United Staes, had to wear a helmet in the field and have his medication at the ready. Yeah, that kid. The other coach had no idea that there was something wrong with him. Baseball is baseball. He played within the rules. IMO, his priorities are beyond screwed. Hopefully that is the real lesson that the kids will learn. With that (and my other posts) said, I think Reilly is also guilty here. IMO, the coach deserves to take a lot of crap from the people in town. To have this thing publicized so every nut in the world can give him grief isn't exactly fair either. He's not Hitler, he's just a bullyish cowardly moron with no class. There are plenty of those to go around and most of them are not exposed nationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Here's an equally screwed up story that I just read at another message board. There was a link, but it required a login, so I didn't bother to post that: A local Little League team (Portsmouth) was playing in the regional semi final against Colchester Vermont in Bristol CT this afternoon. The info I heard second hand from the office from our reporter who's down there is that the Vermont team was up 9-8 in the top of the 6th (they're the home team) and they (and Portsmouth) realized that they forgot to use one player (how do you do that at this point?)Upon realizing this, The vermont team began throwing the ball around trying to allow a run to score to tie the game so they could bat the player in the bottom of the inning. The Portsmouth team decided to strike out intentionally to end the game losing, knowing that they would win based on the 'everyone must play' rules (one at bat or one inning in the field). So the Portsmouth kid struck out to end and lose the game and they were celebrating. Colchester parents were ready to riot... So they're awaiting appeal from national Little League headquarters... If it stands that Portsmouth 'wins' despite losing, I'll feel sorry for those kids (Vermont), but how the hell do you let that happen at this level? As much as I hope Portsmouth wins and goes to Williamsport(because I can make some good $ covering it), it's kind of a bummer way to 'win', but rules are rules... I can't imagine how they could give Vermont the 'win'.... but what a bizzare turn of events (side note, this crap gets way too much coverage, with the regional finals on ESPN on Sunday).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 So he was planning on being down one run in the bottom of the last inning with the tying run at third and two outs and his slugger due up? That guy is a genius. The other coach happened upon a situation, took advantage of it, and revealed his true (lack of) character. Then, after the game, he cemented the image by denying any knowledge of the kid's condition. You know, the kid that had survived cancer, visiited with the President of the United Staes, had to wear a helmet in the field and have his medication at the ready. Yeah, that kid. The other coach had no idea that there was something wrong with him. Baseball is baseball. He played within the rules. IMO, his priorities are beyond screwed. Hopefully that is the real lesson that the kids will learn. With that (and my other posts) said, I think Reilly is also guilty here. IMO, the coach deserves to take a lot of crap from the people in town. To have this thing publicized so every nut in the world can give him grief isn't exactly fair either. He's not Hitler, he's just a bullyish cowardly moron with no class. There are plenty of those to go around and most of them are not exposed nationally. 741034[/snapback] Again, he treated that kid just like everyone else. He gave him the opportunity to be the hero. The rest of this is just hippy crap. He didn't teach his kids to "win at all costs." That's a copout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Again, he treated that kid just like everyone else. He gave him the opportunity to be the hero. The rest of this is just hippy crap. He didn't teach his kids to "win at all costs." That's a copout. 741062[/snapback] right on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Again, he treated that kid just like everyone else. He gave him the opportunity to be the hero. The rest of this is just hippy crap. He didn't teach his kids to "win at all costs." That's a copout. 741062[/snapback] Seriously? How many nine year old baseball games have you seen? How many intentional walks in those games? I've seen about 150 with zero intentional walks. If the kid came up in sequence without an exception being made to get to him, I'd agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Again, he treated that kid just like everyone else. He gave him the opportunity to be the hero. The rest of this is just hippy crap. He didn't teach his kids to "win at all costs." That's a copout. 741062[/snapback] I'm sure he walked the good kid just to give cancer boy a shot at being a hero. That had to be what was going through his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The cancer kid, sick or not, is still a ball player, if he requires special treatment, maybe he shouldn't be playing. I'm sorry, but I don't think the other coach should be at fault. Sure its doesn't sound like the most upstanding thing to do, but thats the breaks. The coach should let his team possible lose the game because he doesn't want to offend the sick kid? If he's so sick he should not be playing. kids these days are being coddled way too much, you can't even fail a kid in school no matter how dumb they are unless a parent gives the school permission because it could effect the kids mental health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Seriously? How many nine year old baseball games have you seen? How many intentional walks in those games? I've seen about 150 with zero intentional walks. If the kid came up in sequence without an exception being made to get to him, I'd agree 100%. 741067[/snapback] And if the kid wasn't a cancer survivor but just a weak batter, we never would have heard about it. The real issue isn't the intentional walk, the real issue is "The poor kid has cancer!", which has nothing to do with baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Seriously? How many nine year old baseball games have you seen? How many intentional walks in those games? Plenty. Coached alot of them too. Can't say I ever coached in a league that had a championship game at that age. That's probably the thing I disagree with more than anything. Virtually every situation is a learning experience. Nothing more than that. I've seen about 150 with zero intentional walks. If the kid came up in sequence without an exception being made to get to him, I'd agree 100%. 741067[/snapback] Can't say I see it as a big deal. At the end of the day, it's a baseball game. I'm sorry the boy with cancer didn't write a better end to the story, but life isn't always a Disney movie. One of my fondest personal sports memories happened when I was about that age. I played on the league's laughingstock - we won 2 games that season. But one of them was against the team with the best record. That league had similiar rules to the league in the story. 3 innings, everyone bats every inning. We came up in our half of the bottom of the inning, needing everyone on the team to get on base and score to win. This meant that the 2 girls had to actually not only put the bat on the ball (something that was as rare as a coherent Roscoe P. Coetrain post), but actually get on safely. No one thought we had a chance. Their bench players were all laughing and joking about winning another game and blowing out the "worst team in the league." Yet somehow, we actually did the impossible and won the game, getting a standing ovation from all the parents at the fields that day (many coming over from other fields for the last few batters because we really were that bad). It's a lesson I've never forgotten, both about never giving up AND never thinking a goal is accomplished until it's actually finished. That was the fun one. The most disappointing was the next year when I overthrew the relay man, costing us first place for the season. I was obviously very disappointed (that's putting it mildly), but my parents reminded me it was only a baseball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I'm sure he walked the good kid just to give cancer boy a shot at being a hero. That had to be what was going through his mind. 741076[/snapback] Don't care. It's a fuggin' baseball game. The winners aren't satan and the losers aren't going to the firing squad. The reason it's a big deal is people like you who apparently see it as some kind of life validation. One team won, another lost. Whoopie. Life goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 3 innings, everyone bats every inning. We came up in our half of the bottom of the inning, needing everyone on the team to get on base and score to win. This meant that the 2 girls had to actually not only put the bat on the ball (something that was as rare as a coherent Roscoe P. Coetrain post), but actually get on safely. 741116[/snapback] Outfuc#ingstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Don't care. It's a fuggin' baseball game. The winners aren't satan and the losers aren't going to the firing squad. The reason it's a big deal is people like you who apparently see it as some kind of life validation. One team won, another lost. Whoopie. Life goes on. 741118[/snapback] The experience here is frightening. http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=48954 Why is it that, this young boy can be on a team that makes it to the championship round, never had this much publicity? The Coaches played by the rules afforded them. Its that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Plenty. Coached alot of them too. Can't say I ever coached in a league that had a championship game at that age. That's probably the thing I disagree with more than anything. Virtually every situation is a learning experience. Nothing more than that. Can't say I see it as a big deal. At the end of the day, it's a baseball game. I'm sorry the boy with cancer didn't write a better end to the story, but life isn't always a Disney movie. One of my fondest personal sports memories happened when I was about that age. I played on the league's laughingstock - we won 2 games that season. But one of them was against the team with the best record. That league had similiar rules to the league in the story. 3 innings, everyone bats every inning. We came up in our half of the bottom of the inning, needing everyone on the team to get on base and score to win. This meant that the 2 girls had to actually not only put the bat on the ball (something that was as rare as a coherent Roscoe P. Coetrain post), but actually get on safely. No one thought we had a chance. Their bench players were all laughing and joking about winning another game and blowing out the "worst team in the league." Yet somehow, we actually did the impossible and won the game, getting a standing ovation from all the parents at the fields that day (many coming over from other fields for the last few batters because we really were that bad). It's a lesson I've never forgotten, both about never giving up AND never thinking a goal is accomplished until it's actually finished. That was the fun one. The most disappointing was the next year when I overthrew the relay man, costing us first place for the season. I was obviously very disappointed (that's putting it mildly), but my parents reminded me it was only a baseball game. 741116[/snapback] Some of my best experiences were also in losing efforts. My favorite: We were clearly the second best team in the league. We had three losses against the undefeated top team and one against the rest of the league combined. Their team was stacked and they had not been in a close game all year. We were playing them for the last time. I don't think we'd gotten within 6-7 runs of them in the first 3 tries. We played them tight all night and managed to get a very tense game into extra innings. We failed to score in the top of the inning. I was the catcher. Our pitcher was tired. The first guy walked, next guy got a hit and third guy walked. Up stepped their best hitter. I still remember the pitch coming in....the sound of the bat....the kid jumping out of the tree overlooking centerfield because he didn't want the ball to hit him. We played great. We lost. We learned. I get it. Another as a spectator: My friend Jim overthrew the cutoff man like you. BTW, did you also overthrow the catcher, the 12 foot backstop and the concession stand like Jim? The ONLY thing I don't agree with about this story is that the coach made a highly unusual move to treat the cancer kid DIFFERENTLY than everyone else. After that, he lies about his knowledge of the kid's plight. That is low. I don't think it will hurt the kid's in the long run, but neither would manning up against the tough hitter and winning or losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 The ONLY thing I don't agree with about this story is that the coach made a highly unusual move to treat the cancer kid DIFFERENTLY than everyone else. After that, he lies about his knowledge of the kid's plight. That is low. I don't think it will hurt the kid's in the long run, but neither would manning up against the tough hitter and winning or losing. 741199[/snapback] But he didn't treat the cancer kid differently -- the coach probably would've walked Jordan no matter WHO was on deck -- since Jordan was the team's best player and you only needed one out to win the game. If the on-deck player was the fourth best player, I bet the same thing happens but never gets reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 But he didn't treat the cancer kid differently -- the coach probably would've walked Jordan no matter WHO was on deck -- since Jordan was the team's best player and you only needed one out to win the game. If the on-deck player was the fourth best player, I bet the same thing happens but never gets reported. 741201[/snapback] I've coached and watched about 150 games played at that age level and never seen an intentional walk, but what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I've coached and watched about 150 games played at that age level and never seen an intentional walk, but what do I know? 741203[/snapback] Wow, a whole 150 games?! Well obviously everyone in the thread must bow down before your immense knowledge of all things baseball. Except you havn't seen a game in Utah... You probably havn't seen a PONY league game (maybe something similar, but not that league - see Utah comment above). And frankly, 150 games is hardly anything. Assume a 10 team league with a 10 game season -- that's 50 games per season, so you've seen the equivalent of a whopping three seasons of ONE league. Of course there are THOUSANDS of leagues across the country, so just because you havn't seen an intentional walk doesn't mean they don't happen. Would you feel differently if I told you that I've seen intentional walks with kids that age? Or doesn't that count, because I havn't seen 150 games like you have? Not trying to be rude (ok, maybe a little...), but coming off saying, "I've seen 150 games, so obviously I know everything about little league baseball and the coach is obviously a jackass" just makes no sense whatsoever. And you never did answer my question about at what age kids should start caring about winning. I'm really curious, since obviously having a playoff format for a league doesn't mean they should care about winning according to you. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I was starting to think I was the only one on this side of the fence. 740718[/snapback] No... I am with you too. Just like Darin said, they treated him like everybody else. You play to win in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Not sure what this league is like - is it common to intentionally walk to win games, or is it supposed to be one of those leagues where everyone is supposed to play? Big difference in my mind. Assuming that intentional walks are seen from time to time, I don't have a problem when a coach decides to walk the other team's best hitter in a championship game. There is no problem if the coach makes that call willing to walk the best hitter in order to pitch to anyone else (even the second best hitter) and if he doesn't know that the next batter is a cancer kid. The coach is really in a loose-loose situation - if he walks the kid people say he's picking on a cancer kid, if he pitches to the best hitter and his kids loose the game his kids and their parents blast him. The only way I think that walking the best hitter is the wrong decision is if this is the type of league where it's not really about the competition and everyone plays and/or the coach knew the next batter was a cancer kid. 740733[/snapback] But... Then is this was the case... Intentional BBs would be against the rules. Obviously, they allowed intentional BB's in the rules... Why not use them during the game??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 But... Then is this was the case... Intentional BBs would be against the rules. Obviously, they allowed intentional BB's in the rules... Why not use them during the game??? 741246[/snapback] Don't worry, there's bound to be enough hippy outcry to change that rule. We don't want to hurt anyone's delicate self esteem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Don't worry, there's bound to be enough hippy outcry to change that rule. We don't want to hurt anyone's delicate self esteem. 741264[/snapback] According to OGTEleven it was just oversight that the intentional walk rule was still included... I do agree that not allowing a pinch hitter is a dumbass rule too... These kids are 9 and 10... Not 5 and 6... They know what winning is about. And don't let them sh*t you, even in the early leagues where they "don't" keep score... You bet the kids are (keeping score) in the back of their minds! Play to win. There was nothing dirty about what the coach did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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