He wants it?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I'm not backing any side. If Israel had confined itself to attacking Hizbollah alone rather than blowing up the infrastructure of Lebanon in an act of collective punishment, I would have agreed that it was legitimate self-defence.

 

As for Nasrallah's comments, yes, they are stupid and I certainly don't condone them. However, I wouldn't judge every single Arab on the basis of what he said, as you appear to be doing.

737934[/snapback]

 

It's more I condemn the Arab people because they exist in an environment where this kind of thought flourishes to this day. This isn't 1906. It's 2006. Civilized, rational people don't think like this. Why does this kind of stuff exist with such vigor in the Arab world?

[chicot]

It's more I condemn the Arab people because they exist in an environment where this kind of thought flourishes to this day. This isn't 1906. It's 2006. Civilized, rational people don't think like this. Why does this kind of stuff exist with such vigor in the Arab world?

737936[/snapback]

 

That's a fair point. I agree that this sort of stuff should be stamped out. Apart from being morally repugnant (as are all forms of racism), it also serves as a distraction from legitimate questions about Israel's policy and does the Arab cause no favours whatsoever.

 

Having said that, the racism is not entirely on one side alone. If you study the quotes of former Israeli leaders you'll find quite a few examples of anti-Arab racism. From memory, Yitshak Shamir once described the Palestinians as "grasshoppers" and Ehud Barak made the claim that Arabs are genetically incapable of telling the truth.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm not backing any side. If Israel had confined itself to attacking Hizbollah alone rather than blowing up the infrastructure of Lebanon in an act of collective punishment, I would have agreed that it was legitimate self-defence.

 

As for Nasrallah's comments, yes, they are stupid and I certainly don't condone them. However, I wouldn't judge every single Arab on the basis of what he said, as you appear to be doing.

737934[/snapback]

 

It seems to me that you tend to romanticize the Arab terrorists more than actually back them. You also have for years held the west to higher "standards," which I consider unfair.

Hizbollah wanted this conflict, or they would not have captured soldiers and they wouldn't STILL be firing missles. Now, they are getting their ba!!s blown off, and I really don't care so much (and perhaps this makes me less of a person).

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

It seems to me that you tend to romanticize the Arab terrorists more than actually back them. You also have for years held the west to higher "standards," which I consider unfair.

Hizbollah wanted this conflict, or they would not have captured soldiers and they wouldn't STILL be firing missles. Now, they are getting their ba!!s blown off, and I really don't care so much (and perhaps this makes me less of a person).

738018[/snapback]

 

Actually, Bill, we can type out "balls" here.

[meazza]

Here's a direct quote from the side you're backing, Sheik Nasrallah's Hizbollah:

 

"“What do the Jews want? They want security and money. Throughout history the Jews have been Allah's most cowardly and greedy creatures.  If you search the entire face of the earth you will not find anyone more miserly  than the Jews or more greedy than they” (Al-Manar, September 28, 2001)."

 

Naw, the Arabs are a sweet, innocent people...not the new fascists of the 21st century.

 

This is a threat that MUST be met head-on. The euro-pussies can't be counted on for support. They think TALK solves everything. Funny, when I grew up, I learned that ACTIONS speak louder than words. Hizbollah backs up their words. Why shouldn't OUR side?

737933[/snapback]

 

the side I'm backing?

 

ok i'm ending this here. I don't know when anyone here could ever find a post saying i support hez'bollah, but since you seem to believe so, it must be true

[meazza]

Labelling someone as anti-Israel is rather easier than defending Israeli actions in the ME. With some people who post here it might even be an accurate label but since I don't know them it would be a tough call. However, if I were you, I might take exception to the pedophile label.  Allowing someone to post something like that on a public board......

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it's the perfect end to an argument. when one has nothing to say, refer to childish insults.

 

although for what reason exactly? because I told someone they were overreacting for calling people on this board anti-semites?

[GG]

Wow, I cannot remember a time when I have seen a written passage so taken out of context and skewed to present a different perspective as you did. Good job.

737913[/snapback]

 

Wow, I cannot remember a time when I have seen someone come in from left field to chime in and totally miss the point.

[chicot]

It seems to me that you tend to romanticize the Arab terrorists more than actually back them. You also have for years held the west to higher "standards," which I consider unfair.

Hizbollah wanted this conflict, or they would not have captured soldiers and they wouldn't STILL be firing missles. Now, they are getting their ba!!s blown off, and I really don't care so much (and perhaps this makes me less of a person).

738018[/snapback]

 

I'm not so sure that Hizbollah is getting their balls blown off. I think most of those killed in Lebanon have been civilians rather than Hizbollah fighters. Most of the media reports I've read (including some from the Israeli and US media) are suprised at the resilience of Hizbollah and quite a few have been critical of the performance of the IDF.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm not so sure that Hizbollah is getting their balls blown off. I think most of those killed in Lebanon have been civilians rather than Hizbollah fighters. Most of the media reports I've read (including some from the Israeli and US media) are suprised at the resilience of Hizbollah and quite a few have been critical of the performance of the IDF.

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Romanticizing again? The primary reason there are any left is that they are probably hiding in Nursery Schools. They could never defeat Israel.

Never.

[chicot]

Romanticizing again? The primary reason there are any left is that they are probably hiding in Nursery Schools. They could never defeat Israel.

Never.

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Not in the sense that they could ever invade or conquer Israel but there are plenty of conceivable scenarios in which Hizbollah could claim a victory of sorts.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

the side I'm backing?

 

ok i'm ending this here.  I don't know when anyone here could ever find a post saying i support hez'bollah, but since you seem to believe so, it must be true 

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You seem a wee bit critical of Israel. I guess that's to be expected as you're canadian (wanna-be euro).

 

I'm glad a few countries in this world have the balls to do what's right, even if everyone else criticizes them for it.

[Tux of Borg]

Not in the sense that they could ever invade or conquer Israel but there are plenty of conceivable scenarios in which Hizbollah could claim a victory of sorts.

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Part of the problem with extremists is they think they win when they actually lose. They aren't going to win sympathy from the international community when they commit terrorist acts and then go hide in hospitals.

[RickW]

Wow, I cannot remember a time when I have seen someone come in from left field to chime in and totally miss the point.

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My apologies for not choosing the correct field from which to enter. However, since I have "chimed-in" on a private debate, I will make a timely exit.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I'm not so sure that Hizbollah is getting their balls blown off. I think most of those killed in Lebanon have been civilians rather than Hizbollah fighters. Most of the media reports I've read (including some from the Israeli and US media) are suprised at the resilience of Hizbollah and quite a few have been critical of the performance of the IDF.

738070[/snapback]

 

Of course, the simple fact that Hizb'Allah is a civilian militia makes it rather easy to skew the "combattant/non-combattant" numbers...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Part of the problem with extremists is they think they win when they actually lose.  They aren't going to win sympathy from the international community when they commit terrorist acts and then go hide in hospitals.

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They're not? That's exactly what they're doing today, and all of the Arab world, most of the muslim world and MUCH of the rest of the world is begging Israel to stop...

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Part of the problem with extremists is they think they win when they actually lose.  They aren't going to win sympathy from the international community when they commit terrorist acts and then go hide in hospitals.

738102[/snapback]

 

Asymmetric warfare. Lose on the battlefield, win in the arena of public opinion...and you win the war. The Viet Cong were slaughtered in the Tet Offensive...but people still think of that as an American disaster. Public opinion is everything.

[GG]

No, it's not Europe circa 1200 because Europeans were not displaced to make way for a Jewish state. You are correct to say that there are many problems in the Arab (and Islamic) world that are nothing to do with Israel. You are right that people should be more indignant about what is happening in Sudan.

 

None of this however changes that fact that the creation of Israel was a disaster for the Palestinian people. That has still not been resolved. You can't wish it away. You can't pretend that because there are other injustices this one should be ignored. In the long run it is in Israel's best interests to come to a lasting settlement on this issue and that means giving up all of the land it is illegally occupying, not a slice here or a slice there, and allowing the creation of a viable Palestinian state.

737893[/snapback]

 

The disaster heaped on the Palestinians by the creation of Israel cannot be viewed as a singular event, as it ignores the disaster heaped upon the Kurds in the creation of Turkey and Iraq, or the disaster placed on the Ahwazi Arabs in Iran. Why are they less worthy of terrorist attacks and world pity?

 

Again, this goes to the double standards that Israel is forced to live with. Its creation is deemed suspect, but the same post-colonial mandates that created the current Middle East nations are perfectly fine by the rest of the world. The UN and League of Nations sanctifying national borders are obviously legit when it comes to adherents of Islam, but not when it comes to the Jewish state.

 

How many times can we have the circular argument about the viability of the Palestinian state? With whom were the Israelis negotiating prior to 2004? Who really doesn't want a peace deal?

 

Just another question, don't you stop for a moment and ask if it's a coincidence that on the eve of Abbas' call for a referendum to resume negotiations with Israel, Hamas stepped up its rocket attacks and then crossed the border, only to be followed two days later by similar Hezb attacks? Stunning coincidence, no?

 

Yet, Israel is expected to turn her cheek.

[chicot]

Part of the problem with extremists is they think they win when they actually lose.  They aren't going to win sympathy from the international community when they commit terrorist acts and then go hide in hospitals.

738102[/snapback]

 

That's one of the realities of asymmetric warfare. When you are massively outgunned you don't stand around in a field and wait to be bombed.

[Chilly]

It's more I condemn the Arab people because they exist in an environment where this kind of thought flourishes to this day. This isn't 1906. It's 2006. Civilized, rational people don't think like this. Why does this kind of stuff exist with such vigor in the Arab world?

737936[/snapback]

 

I don't know what to think of this post.

 

A lot of whats going on in Lebanon is because they aren't as civilized as us: A new democracy that can't force out partial control by forces outside of the government and within it because it is weak.

 

Its easy for us to sort out the wacka's (just kidding wacka) in our society, because we already have the capabilities and system of doing so.

 

Terrorists in the US don't have much of an effect, and much of an incentive, due to that. People like Eric Rudolph, Ted Kaczynski (who I still think looks like George Clooney), Terry Nichols, etc are nuts, and I'm sure that theres a bunch more whackos in the US. If they were over in a middle eastern country, you could bet that they'd be having a bunch more impact then they had here in the US.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I don't know what to think of this post.

 

A lot of whats going on in Lebanon is because they aren't as civilized as us:  A new democracy that can't force out partial control by forces outside of the government and within it because it is weak.

 

Its easy for us to sort out the wacka's (just kidding wacka) in our society, because we already have the capabilities and system of doing so.

 

Terrorists in the US don't have much of an effect, and much of an incentive, due to that.  People like Eric Rudolph, Ted Kaczynski (who I still think looks like George Clooney), Terry Nichols, etc are nuts, and I'm sure that theres a bunch more whackos in the US.  If they were over in a middle eastern country, you could bet that they'd be having a bunch more impact then they had here in the US.

738189[/snapback]

 

The problem in Lebanon is that they've ACCPETED Hizbollah into the government, desppite how the Christians ans Sunnis and Druzes might feel about them. They've allowed an intrinsically anti-Semitic group to become part of their government. How do you deal with that if you're Israel? This is the sticky part of the equation.