Contract Details of Whitner

[Frez]

Some Contract Details: The deal signed by Donte Whitner is the second largest rookie contract in team history behind Mike Williams's deal. It is for five years, instead of the six allowed by the collective barganing agreement. He is expected to earn around $29 Million with more than $13 Million of that guaranteed. He will get 15 percent more than last year's no. 8 pick and $12 Million more than the no. 9 pick in this year's draft.

[buffalo mike2]

Some Contract Details: The deal signed by Donte Whitner is the second largest rookie contract in team history behind Mike Williams's deal. It is for five years, instead of the six allowed by the collective barganing agreement. He is expected to earn around $29 Million with more than $13 Million of that guaranteed. He will get 15 percent more than last year's no. 8 pick and $12 Million more than the no. 9 pick in this year's draft.

736961[/snapback]

That is alot, I saw that. Let's just hope this guy brings it hard every Sunday for the next 5 years.....

[Kelly the Dog]

Those are the figures from the Cleveland Plain Dealer. I wouldn't be so fast to count them as accurate. But it's possible.

[Max997]

that is way too much for a rookie safety

[Ramius]

Those are the figures from the Cleveland Plain Dealer. I wouldn't be so fast to count them as accurate. But it's possible.

736963[/snapback]

 

Right on. Also, incentive money is included in that number as well, even if it isnt likely to be or wont be earned. Lets see the real numbers before we start to panic, although, its too late already it appears.

[buffalo mike2]

that is way too much for a rookie safety

736964[/snapback]

Glass half empty or full? Let's just hope this guy turns out to be such a bad ass that contract turns out to be a bargin- the best we ever had....

[Max997]

Glass half empty or full? Let's just hope this guy turns out to be such a bad ass that contract turns out to be a bargin- the best we ever had....

736971[/snapback]

 

 

unfortunately i dont think he is that type of safety, he is not in the Rodney Harrison or Troy Polo mold

[Dawgg]

Agreed, but these types of opinions are shunned upon here.

 

 

that is way too much for a rookie safety

736964[/snapback]

[ans4e64]

wow, i wonder with those numbers if the Bills just gave in to him and his agent, if its that much more than last year's number 8, and this years number 9, i cant imagine whitner asking for more and him coming down

[dave mcbride]

who freakin' cares?? really. the bills are under the cap by a good amount, and the cap is going up next year. seriously, who freakin' cares??

[IndyJay1234]

who freakin' cares?? really. the bills are under the cap by a good amount, and the cap is going up next year. seriously, who freakin' cares??

737021[/snapback]

 

 

Who cares who cares.. As fans with the money they just wasted on Whitner we could have gotten our season tickets for 7 bucks less each or a free beer at the next game. Oh wait.. that is not how it works at all is it.. darn.. ok.. your right Who cares.

[MDH]

who freakin' cares?? really. the bills are under the cap by a good amount, and the cap is going up next year. seriously, who freakin' cares??

737021[/snapback]

 

 

The Bills are throwing a lot of the cap space they are using to a guy that hasn't played a down yet is the second highest paid at his position...and his position is one that is generally pretty easy to fill with mid-round draft picks.

 

Whitner might well be a good player (the things I’ve heard about him all sound good) but it’s almost to the point that he’s not worth the pick/money even if he turns out to be a Pro-Bowl type player. He’d have to be a dominating force, a Troy Polamalu, to justify the investment. That’s a pretty risky move Imo.

 

This is pretty much what Bado has been trying to tell people but people seem more concerned with telling others they’re an idiot than they are with listening to an opposing point of view.

 

And to your point about the cap space; shouldn't the fans care that the Bills are under the cap by a good amount? It doesn't appear the Bills are doing their absolute best to put a winning product on the field. The salary cap only levels the playing field if your team uses all the space available and the Bills aren't doing that. If they end up using that space to frontload some contract extentions (or re-sign Clements) then I’ll think it’s justified, but if they just stand pat I’ll be scratching my head wondering why they’re not using the space available.

[Dawgg]

Very well said. Could not have said it better.

 

The Bills are  throwing a lot of the cap space they are using to a guy that hasn't played a down yet is the second highest paid at his position...and his position is one that is generally pretty easy to fill with mid-round draft picks.

 

Whitner might well be a good player (the things I’ve heard about him all sound good) but it’s almost to the point that he’s not worth the pick/money even if he turns out to be a Pro-Bowl type player.  He’d have to be a dominating force, a Troy Polamalu, to justify the investment.  That’s a pretty risky move Imo.

 

This is pretty much what Bado has been trying to tell people but people seem more concerned with telling others they’re an idiot than they are with listening to an opposing point of view.

 

And to your point about the cap space; shouldn't the fans care that the Bills are under the cap by a good amount?  It doesn't appear the Bills are doing their absolute best to put a winning product on the field.  The salary cap only levels the playing field if your team uses all the space available and the Bills aren't doing that.  If they end up using that space to frontload some contract extentions (or re-sign Clements) then I’ll think it’s justified, but if they just stand pat I’ll be scratching my head wondering why they’re not using the space available.

737039[/snapback]

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The Bills are  throwing a lot of the cap space they are using to a guy that hasn't played a down yet is the second highest paid at his position...and his position is one that is generally pretty easy to fill with mid-round draft picks.

 

Whitner might well be a good player (the things I’ve heard about him all sound good) but it’s almost to the point that he’s not worth the pick/money even if he turns out to be a Pro-Bowl type player.  He’d have to be a dominating force, a Troy Polamalu, to justify the investment.  That’s a pretty risky move Imo.

 

This is pretty much what Bado has been trying to tell people but people seem more concerned with telling others they’re an idiot than they are with listening to an opposing point of view.

 

And to your point about the cap space; shouldn't the fans care that the Bills are under the cap by a good amount?  It doesn't appear the Bills are doing their absolute best to put a winning product on the field.  The salary cap only levels the playing field if your team uses all the space available and the Bills aren't doing that.  If they end up using that space to frontload some contract extentions (or re-sign Clements) then I’ll think it’s justified, but if they just stand pat I’ll be scratching my head wondering why they’re not using the space available.

737039[/snapback]

 

 

The draft is a risk, end of story.

 

Yeah, we drafted Whitner to be a probowl caliber SS, thats the whole point. Thats why we took him 8th. As it is, the SS position is handing out some serious bucks because of the emergence of the TE position. Its the "hot" position and if you dont have a guy with superior athletic ability and cover skills then your in trouble.

[jarthur31]

Right on. Also, incentive money is included in that number as well, even if it isnt likely to be or wont be earned. Lets see the real numbers before we start to panic, although, its too late already it appears.

736970[/snapback]

 

Heh, you know how this board operates. If one person doesn't wake up with their rosebud's all puckered up, another will.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

The draft is a risk, end of story.

 

Yeah, we drafted Whitner to be a probowl caliber SS, thats the whole point.  Thats why we took him 8th.  As it is, the SS position is handing out some serious bucks because of the emergence of the TE position.  Its the "hot" position and if you dont have a guy with superior athletic ability and cover skills then your in trouble.

737050[/snapback]

 

 

exactaly te and safeties are becoming must have positions. Slow prodding guys who were traditionaly used at ss to support the run are becoming a thing of the past with more and more teams using athletic receiving threats at te. Your gates, shockeys, gonzalez, mcmichael, crumpler ben watson, vernon davis etc etc. You need guys like the ed reed, the polamalu's guys who can cover the te in your base defense and if need be drop down and cover slot receivers. Whether or not Whitner was a reach or not is all relative imo. If he can help the defense its worth it, if not he's just another bust in a long line of draft busts.

[Pyrite Gal]

Very well said. Could not have said it better.

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I find the views Max, Bado, you and others have about the cap to be true as far as they go but they seem to be a view which is simplistic in terms of a what I think is a more accurate consideration of the cap.

 

Clealry the asessed worth of a player (assessment ending up as an educated guesstimate at best how well a player perfoms) is the basis for where he is chosen in the draft and thus defines the contract which goes with this pick.

 

However, there are a large number of factors which ultimately determine what that contract recieved by the player will be which really are quite different from how well a player perfoems (and even how the market guesses he will perform).

 

I think that these factors render the statement that some amount is too much to pay for a player at a particular position to be not a correct one (particularly at this time where the cap amount has increased a lot with the new CBA being agreed to), The fact is that we are about to see a significant general increase in the salaries for all positions as the larger pool of money has to be distributed to the players under the CBA.

 

A team managing its cap budget needs to look at the length of all of its contracts, look at the positions they have under contract and expect to fill, and then estimate how much they will need spend and win to set the salary levels that they can afford to pay.

 

Thus, if a team anticipates that it already has made contract allocations over the next several years to positions which will require the most dollars, they actually will have a larger amount available to pay players at other positions which traditionally have not gotten these salaries. They (and the players) may also make an estimation that the salary amount for a particular position is going to go up as the salaries of all positions will go up and thus they are willing to pay or insist that they be paid based on where the salaries are likely to be at the end term of the contract rather than what was traditionally paid to that player.

 

To some extent if safeties are always paid less than QBs then even if all salaries are going up safeties will still be paid less than QBs, thus picking a safety in a draft position slotted for a higher contract would be out of whack. However, even this logic appears to be old thinking based on the positions where safeties are being drafted in this draft or over the last few years.

 

Its simply hard to credibly argue the Bills drafted a safety way tog high when they picked the second safety taken in this draft. Perhaps you then want to argue that the first safety taken Huff was a special case and that drafting a safety in the 1st round is a grand departure from the norm. However:

 

A. The 3rd safety drafted was taken a mere 8 picks later when the Fins took Allen, so anyone who says safetues should be taken in later rounds is calling w other teams paid to do this stupid. Maybe but it gets a bit harder to maintain.

 

B. Roy Williams a safety was taken at about this level and most folks are impressed enough with this play that they feel this pick was justified so there is recent evidence that a safety taken this soon can pay benefits. One can argue that Whitner is gonna be bad player but this is different argument than arguing that you should take any safety later.

 

C. The NFL like it or not is a lemming like league which imitates what i working for others, The role played by Williams and high profitle players like Troy Polalamu certainly does not mean Whitner, Huff or Allen will play any better, but it certainly means that this position is likely to be drafted higher and thus slotted to higher contracts. The point you are making seems to act as if a players salary and his level of play are the same. They are not in this imperfect but real world. It seems contradictory for you to argue on one hand the Bills violated a market rule that safeties should be picked later when actually their pick of the 2nd of 3 safeties picked in the 1st round places them firmly in the middle of following the market.

 

D. The Bills themselves are actually moving to a Cover 2 from a zone blitz and this move places a higher premium on getting a safety capable of playing the centerfielder pass coverage role. A player of Whitner's skills fits this model perfectly , In addition, looking at the Bills cap situation, two of their higher priced players they are going to possibly or likely replace soon are Vincent and Clements.

 

If they let these two walk after this year, one would see a DB cap expenditure for Mcgee, Yobouty, Simpson, and Whitner with Greer, Baker and King probably dueling to play. I think the Bills DB cap and player situation looks pretty reasonable with this crew.

 

One can argue what one wants about the quality of the players and reality will tell us what is right. However, the notion that a safety pick was too high at #8 simply sems like old thinking which is not substantiated by recent events.

[Estro]

way too high considering ed reed just resigned as the highest paid safety at about 5 mill per year

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

way too high considering ed reed just resigned as the highest paid safety at about 5 mill per year

737081[/snapback]

 

 

its really all in how its structured

 

Baltimore Ravens SS Ed Reed signed a seven-year contract extension with base salaries of $585,000 (2006), $595,000 (2007), $605,000 (2008), $3.6 million (2009), $6.0 million (2010), $6.5 million (2011) and $7.2 million (2012).

 

that's a great bargin for the first 3-4 years reed probably wont see the bigger money in the last 3

[Bill from NYC]

I find the views Max, Bado, you and others have about the cap to be true as far as they go but they seem to be a view which is simplistic in terms of a what I think is a more accurate consideration of the cap.

737080[/snapback]

 

Fair enough. How do you feel about this article? Hope, a proven NFL talent, signed for less than Whittner.

This in itself is admittedly not unusual in the NFL. The thing is, it does appear that despite what you say about the recent trend (which I do not dispute) of drafting safties earlier, Hope (again, a proven player) signed a deal calling for less than Whittner received.

Now, how many OGs that were drafted in 06 will sign for more than the Vikes gave Hutch? Did the Jests give Ferguson as much as the 49ers gave Jennings (I truly do not know)?

It appears that Marv just HAD to draft Whittner, even though FA safeties will always be more affordable and available than are blockers, or for that matter DEs. Marv wanted this guy SO much that he turned down what appeared to be generous offers to trade down in order to acquire much needed extra picks. Then of course, 2 of his next 3 picks (after trading away a 1st day pick) were yet more defensive backs. The holdout was insult to injury.

This unorthodox (to say the least) strategy MIGHT work. Time will of course tell, but to imply that Badol and others who are not in love with this seemingly bizzare chain of events are somehow out of touch is wrong imo.

My friend Badol isn't getting any younger, but when we will be in RWS this season cheering the Bills, Badol will not be the one who is 87 years old. He is even younger than 81!