Poster below assert that we have "all this talent"

[Ramius]

I have more leftovers in my frig than are on the OL.  Jason Peters was pumping gas in Shrevport three years ago.  Evan is legit.  But he no better than 19 or 20 of all the WRs in the league.  Look at the top 20 WRs and tell me who you would want.

 

McGahee was a super college back, on an amazing Canes team.  He is a talent, but NO better than the top 10 pro bowl backs in the league.  YOU want him over Rudy JOhnson?  How does he compare to L.T.?  He doesn't...

 

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Lee Evans is easily a top 20-25 NFL WR. Is he unbeatable, no, but i'd take him over a lot of other starting WR's in the league. I dont feel like it, but i can list the current starting WR's that Evans is better than.

 

Also, Jason Peters is one highly rated OL prospect, who the league and media sources are just starting to notice. Who cares that he was undrafted, he's playing good.

 

And Willis is better than rudi johnson. Rudi played in a much better offense, hence the higher numbers.

 

 

 

Now, i will translate into roscoe p coetrain speak so you can understand it:

 

 

Evan easily a top 20-25 WR. he unbeatable, no, but take him much before lot of other startin WR in league. i can list the curant starting WR who not better than Evan.

 

Jason Peter is one highly rated OLinemen prospect, who league and media sources starting to notice. Who care that he undrafted, he good.

 

Willis be better than rudy johnson. Rudy played in higher offense, had more higher numbers.

[drnykterstein]

^ lol

[ajzepp]

Now, i will translate into roscoe p coetrain speak so you can understand it:

Evan easily a top 20-25 WR. he unbeatable, no, but take him much before lot of other startin WR in league. i can list the curant starting WR who not better than Evan.

 

Jason Peter is one highly rated OLinemen prospect, who league and media sources starting to notice. Who care that he undrafted, he good.

 

Willis be better than rudy johnson. Rudy played in higher offense, had more higher numbers.

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[Pyrite Gal]

I think this post takes a specific phrase in the post and draws some difficult to support general conclusions from it and then attacks the unsupportable general conclusions. This is true and easy to do (professional arguers on Cable news do this all the time) but really does not add much information or good thinking about the issue.

 

The originator of this thread might provide a more useful post if he asked the question how might one interpret the original notion to which makes the most sense and then respond to that.

 

One could insist that there is no way to interpret the original assertion that would have it make sense. However, I think a failure to be able to do this probably says more about limited thinking and imagination of the reader than the limits of the assertion made.

 

For example, I think the specific post you are refering to is not using the word talent in the way you find shortcomings with. You seem to be jidging whether the Bills individual players have some absolute level of talent now, when he is talking about the Bills acquiring talented youthful players who have not been fully trained or developed yet as pros.

 

I think one can agree both with you that this team lacks players with the productivity to make the playoffs this season, but also agree with him if one judges the youngsters (from rookies drafted this year to developing players like JP) as having talent to make the playoffs soon.

 

I think he is specifically arguing that JP needs to begin to turns the talents that got him drafted into production right now. Comments on that point would be consistent with the comment but I think your thread misses the point.

 

This interests me actually not because I agree with the original poster but actually because I disagree with both him and you.

 

I do not think that JP's or Holcombs ability is going to determine most directly whether the Bills get a bunch of Ws or Ls thi season. If Fairchild foes not come up with a good O scheme with the talents we have I do not think it will be a detereming factor how well the QB plays. Like Shepard in 2001 if the scheme sucks the team (and likely the QB will suck, but even if JP or KH were to play as well as they could this team would suck anyway.

 

Likewise, I think the OL play will be a rate limiting factor which determines a lot about how well the QB plays. If the OL performs well, then McGahee will perform well and the QB will have a much easier tim passing than if opponents do not haveto worry about the run.

 

If the pass protection breaks down a JP QB'ed O looks a lot like Tulane proably and KH simply gets killed.

 

Likewise I think one can focus on WM where if he runs well I think even an adequate QB can pass and if he runs poorly it does not matter how good the QB is in front of Anthony Thomas,

 

I think the poster is wrong to feel that the QB's play will determine alot for this team. Maybe if the QB was good enough to be an Elway or Favre he would drive this team, but our QB ain't gonna be no HOF guy this year/

 

I disagree with you because though there is not one on the O that I think is abovee-average compared to the rest of the NFL, I do think they have specific talents. If these talents are employed correctly with a good scheme and his teammates use their limited talents to support the whole this O can be productive.

 

Specifically:

 

1. Our WRs have a tremendous talent in terms of speed.

 

If Evans combines his tremendous speed with some athleticism so that he is a credible #1 WR, an if PP retains the ability to be a productive #2 with his speed, and If Parrish is able to use his speed and shiftiness to be a valuable addition in 3 receiver sets, then this group's talents do a lot. PP has already shown he does not have the overall talent to be a #1. However, if Fairchild produces plays which allow these WRs to get quick separation and his scheme has some nick crosses and pick plays that complicate coverage without getting penalized then their talents can be qquite productive and formidable even though they do not have the talent (besides Evans possibly) to be above average WRs.

 

The same is true of Reed whose case of droppsies showed he lacked essential talent. However, he seems to have solved the droppsie issue and his time as a former RB makes it quite possible he can produce a lot of RAC for us.

 

2. Our OL is better than last year's starters.

 

I don't know if anyone out there wants to argue that MW and Bennie Anderson were really pretty good or that Teague was athletic but not overmatched. They would be lauged off TSW if they did this. Instead they might argue not that the past starters were bad but instead that the new starters are bad. This claim I think latysto much on their former teams not paying to keep them and concludes they played badly last year. i think this conclusion would be wrong and the record shows it/

 

Reyes was let go because Carolina saw correctly that Mathis had more upside. Fowler was not pursued by the Vikes because their returning from IR center Burk is a better player.

 

There is a reasonable question why the rest of the NFL did not pursue if they were so great. The answer is that they are not great, but that they are easily better than what we had and many reasons to think they will reproduce their good play for Carolina and for the Vikes for us.

 

3. In additrion to OL and WR we have talents but not all talents at RB. WM showed his limitations in the second half of last season bvt showed also that he can be a very prouctive player in the first half of last season.

 

Does this team have talent? No not total talent, but some specific ones which if we plan and perform well could end up to some great prodiction by this team.

 

It looks doubtful all of these things can work out since they are so interdepent buy understanding the talents and the limitations they have I<HP leads to understandingthis football team.

[ajzepp]

I think this post takes a specific phrase in the post and draws some difficult to support general conclusions from it and then attacks the unsupportable general conclusions.  This is true and easy to do (professional arguers on Cable news do this all the time) but really does not add much information or good thinking about the issue.

 

The originator of this thread might provide a more useful post if he asked the question how might one interpret the original notion to which makes the most sense and then respond to that.

 

One could insist that there is no way to interpret the original assertion that would have it make sense.  However, I think a failure to be able to do this probably says more about limited thinking and imagination of the reader than the limits of the assertion made.

 

 

 

 

my head is spinning

[stuckincincy]

I think the

 

 

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Good going my friend! No misspellings or late-night strains.

 

Got some good rest?

 

Seriously - your posts are tops - thought-provoking...

[Adam]

We do have all that talent- we're just setting things up, so we can sneak up on everyone this year!

[ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN]

Willis is a higher caliber player, IMO. I put Rudy Johnson in the category of a Travis Henry or Lamont Jordan. I think Willis will be a top 5 back in the next two or three years.

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Hey, Rudi had twice as many td as willis, and 1400 yards. not bad. to compare his with travis henry is stupid. and lamont jordan is terrific.

 

willis is great - dont get me wrong. but he aint an all pro. he is a 1100 yard rusher who comes out on 3rd down.

[Rico]

Hey, Rudi had twice as many td as willis, and 1400 yards.  not bad.  to compare his with travis henry is stupid.  and lamont jordan is terrific. 

 

willis is great - dont get me wrong.  but he aint an all pro.  he is a 1100 yard rusher who comes out on 3rd down.

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If they switched teams and Willis played on the Bengals O, he would be all-pro, no doubt in my mind.

[ajzepp]

Hey, Rudi had twice as many td as willis, and 1400 yards.  not bad.  to compare his with travis henry is stupid.  and lamont jordan is terrific. 

 

 

 

Not stupid at all....they've both had two very productive seasons - Travis in '02 and '03, and Rudi in '04 and '05. Their numbers aren't that different.

[ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN]

It looks doubtful all of these things can work out since they are so interdepent buy understanding the talents and the limitations they have I<HP leads to understandingthis football team.

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Look, you have to be a realist when you watch the game and make conclusions that may not be warm and fuzzy and made with rose colored glasses -- that see "BILLS ARE GREAT - BILLS ARE GREAT!" When you watch us play NE or INDY or TAMPA or WASH OR DALLAS OR etc, we got shredded on both sides of the ball. Those finest teams have numerous of high pedigee blue chipers intermingled with layers of later round fiber and depth and solid play. For 10 years now, this Bills club has had inferior talent on the field -- at that is evident when you watch the game and we are never able to compete in the 4th quarter or compete if an injury AT ANY POSITION takes place.

 

EXAMPLE:

NE has two all pro TEs and countless def. lineman. To distinquish, just on NE and us, in this one example, we had Mark Campbell and Shoebel -- and an overpriced Sam Adams. Do you see the comparision? We aint even talking about Dillon, Ty Warren, Seymore, Harrison, Brady, etc.

 

The above example uses NE, the best team around. But, when we look at an above average team, say Cincy, we see the same -- across the board -- difference. We look at Cincy's QB, RB, WRS, OL, DL, LB and corners. THey are better across the board than the Bills by a long shot.

 

Levy recognizes this. He sees that by drafting juniorr underclassmen at value will make sense layer. We get 4 guys as junior insted of one senior who is an inpact guy. Supply and demand -- if you will.

 

But you need some luck to have your late rounders fill in the depth area and roll player areas. Polian was great at that. ANd of course havin Bruce, Bennett, Kelly, Thurman, Richter, Wolford and Reed made that easy.

 

The 06-07 bills are just thin and green in all ways. They mimic San Fran with questions at every spot, with the exception of corner and RB.

[ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN]

Not stupid at all....they've both had two very productive seasons - Travis in '02 and '03, and Rudi in '04 and '05. Their numbers aren't that different.

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maybe you are right. but we will never know. what we do know, emperically (which makes it a fact) is that rudi had 12 tds last season and 1400 yards. i like willis, but no one considers him a GREAT player or pro bowler. the condsider him a pounder with no break away speed or 3rd down ability. Every one who palys for the Canes at RB onthe college film, with there nice dark green jerseys, etc looks AMAZING. Is Willis getting the down field blocking, is the OL good, is Losman able to keep the Def honest and keep the safety out a 8 man front? Dunno. My point is that GREAT player and real talents beat those odds.

 

L.T. - the best RB since Emmitt Smith, beat those odds with a sad team for years now. He sees an 8 man front an punishes it. A great player stands out. Clemens, who I think is a great player stands out. He picks off passes and maked remarkable player for 4 quarters. That is one guy. Where are the others?

[ajzepp]

maybe you are right.  but we will never know.  what we do know, emperically (which makes it a fact) is that rudi had 12 tds last season and 1400 yards.  i like willis, but no one considers him a GREAT player or pro bowler.  the condsider him a pounder with no break away speed or 3rd down ability.  Every one who palys for the Canes at RB onthe college film, with there nice dark green jerseys, etc looks AMAZING.  Is Willis getting the down field blocking, is the OL good, is Losman able to keep the Def honest and keep the safety out a 8 man front?  Dunno.  My point is that GREAT player and real talents beat those odds. 

 

L.T. - the best RB since Emmitt Smith, beat those odds with a sad team for years now.  He sees an 8 man front an punishes it.  A great player stands out.  Clemens, who I think is a great player stands out.  He picks off passes and maked remarkable player for 4 quarters.  That is one guy.  Where are the others?

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I don't think Willis is in LT's class either....LT is the best back in the game, bar none. And yeah, Rudi had a better year than Willis did last year. I just think most people would consider Willis to have a better future ahead of him than Rudi Johnson. Whether Willis actually realizes that potential is another story....but his pedigree coming out of college was much higher than that of Rudi Johnson....we'll just have to wait and see how Willis does.

[Swift Sylvan]

We had a lot of pro-bowl alternates......

[ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN]

I don't think Willis is in LT's class either....LT is the best back in the game, bar none. And yeah, Rudi had a better year than Willis did last year. I just think most people would consider Willis to have a better future ahead of him than Rudi Johnson. Whether Willis actually realizes that potential is another story....but his pedigree coming out of college was much higher than that of Rudi Johnson....we'll just have to wait and see how Willis does.

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There have been hundreds who have better pedigree in college than others. But remember, Willis has a cadevors elbow ligament holding his knee together. His speed may NEVER come back to break into the second layer and secondary and he has show little skill to catch the ball. the NFL is now all about 2,000 yard backs who can catch 50 balls and paly 3 downs. WIllis is getting a rep as a pounder and in between the tackle runner. Rudi scoots around the edge and is a legit pro bowler. He doesn't have the prototypical body. NEither did Emmitt SMith...

[TigerJ]

Buffalo is well down the list of teams with proven talent. I don't think there is any secret about that. It's quite possible that Buffalo's receivers could be a very pleasant surprise, and the line could gel at least somewhat this season. In defense, Buffalo is deep at DB and LB (if Spikes is as far along in his rehab as he appears to be). From the outside looking in it appears as if Buffalo has only on solid starting defensive lineman, Aaron Schobel. There are questions about everyone else. Can Anderson build on his late season improvement in 2005. Can Tripplett hold up as a starter. Are McCargo and Williams anywhere near as good as the Bills thought they were when they drafted them. Can Kelsay put a lousy sophomore season behing him. He gained weight to take reps at DT and sacrificed speed and quickness. Can Denny pressure the QB in this defense when he rarely has to this point in his career. Who will win the 4th DE spot? Obviously it won't be an established NFL player.

 

I won't go into the QB spot since we all know about that and have been discussing it to death on other threads.

[Pyrite Gal]

WIllis is getting a rep as a pounder and in between the tackle runner.

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I think the way the Bills used McGahee last year was one of the big failings of our O braintrust. Everyone is well aware of the failure to use him on 3rd down and this seems likely to change with the installation of a ST. L type O which attempts to use McGahee in the Marshall Faulk role and looks to develop his play as a receiver and use him as a checkdown and safety valve.

 

In addition, though I think that the amazing success WM had using his stiff arm running around the edges makes it really silly to concentrate on running him between the tackles. Given his successful use of the stiff arm and the powerful and feared tool it had become, this using him between the tackles seemed to be more of a choice than a need dictated by WM having trouble running the edge.

 

The reason I think that TC and MM made this choice was that they were more devoted to running their scheme rather than running the best scheme for the player they had. They must have felt constrained by the demands of running an O which was effective for Bledsoe and part of this entailed sending WM out to the edge so folks would not sell out to blitz up the middle.

 

TC seemed to feel without the need to run outside he could pound away inside. However, he proveed to be too clever by half and the Bills O became more predictable as he kept doing playcalling to make his approach work rather than diversify his approach as a defense of Bledsoe.

[Alaska Darin]

The post speaks for itself.  The talent is thin.  You want to talk about the spelling of a players name.  Are you interested in football and the conversation of the talent or jsut trying to make your 10 or so friends on this board giggle at your attempts at humor all day?

I'm not interested in football conversation with people who obviously don't know much about the game. Brian Moorman has been on our team for five years now, plenty of time for even a casual fan to know his name and the Pro Bowl is nothing more than a popularity contest - a meaningless gauge.

 

You got 23, 000 posts, are any of them of substance?

I don't "got" any posts there, Cletus.

 

Read the post, give some opinion on the talent.  No enemys here, jsut a candid review of the field talent.  Talk about that...it makes you look better.

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There is little talent difference between teams in the NFL. Some teams have more confidence and good teams have systems better suited to their players (you know, like not asking Jeff Posey to cover tight ends/backs when it's really, really obvious he can't do it). It's little surprise to me when long tenured, successful NFL coaches go to new teams and immediately win with "talent" that looked worse than average just a season prior.

 

As far as how I look to you, get over yourself. Life isn't about high school popularity. I could give a flying rat's ass about your perception of me.

[krazykat]

A poster below states that we have no QB to go "with ALL this talent."

 

Who is "all this talent" we have?  I think the Bills are in the BOTTOM 1/4 of the league in regards to PURE talent on their team.  Look at their pro bowl appearances and failures to have stat leaders other than Brad Morman.

 

---

 

But to say there is "all this talent" is a misstament.  THis team under TD has some of the worst talent around at every position.  Even poor teams have gusy who stand out and makes plays and display their talent and pro bowl ability.  Look at at Arizona, Texans and Detroit.

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Funny some of the responses.

 

It doesn't matter don't you see. We have everything "new" and that's all that matters. New systems are going to turn very average players into pro bowlers this year. See. Get it.

 

This is a great place to sell used cars on line.

[IndyJay1234]

A poster below states that we have no QB to go "with ALL this talent."

 

Who is "all this talent" we have?  I think the Bills are in the BOTTOM 1/4 of the league in regards to PURE talent on their team.  Look at their pro bowl appearances and failures to have stat leaders other than Brad Morman.

 

I have more leftovers in my frig than are on the OL.  Jason Peters was pumping gas in Shrevport three years ago.  Evan is legit.  But he no better than 19 or 20 of all the WRs in the league.  Look at the top 20 WRs and tell me who you would want.

 

QBs are bruttal.  JP does not show the type of rookie moxie that a young Palmer or MAnning or Carr have.  Blame it on his cast?  Dunno...  Holcom is a has been.  NO better than Steve Grogan.

 

McGahee was a super college back, on an amazing Canes team.  He is a talent, but NO better than the top 10 pro bowl backs in the league.  YOU want him over Rudy JOhnson?  How does he compare to L.T.?  He doesn't...

 

DEFENSE:

 

The DE line has Tripplet, shoebel, ANderson and Kelsey.  All average undersized guys.  LB are pretty much Fletcher who makes tons of jumping on the pile type tackles.  He does not make the pro bowl B/K he makes not solo sstops or back field stops ala Ray LEwis, et al.  Is he more effective if he had lineman to keep blockers oof him?  Spikes is solid.  A freak.  But his ankle is Sam cowart 6 years ago. 

 

Vincent has been an injury prone kitty his entre career.  WIth Maimi he was scared to make tackles and is hurt 70 % of the time.  Clemens is solid -- a pro bowl type.  The others are late picks who are roll players.  MCgee is a great special teamer.

 

MArv drafted all underclass men in an effort to steal talent adn pro bowl types for 3 yrs from now.  McCargo will blossom in 3 years adn would have been a high first rounder had he stayed at NC State.  Same for the others. 

 

DAnte will be rock solid and anchor to Def.

 

But to say there is "all this talent" is a misstament.  THis team under TD has some of the worst talent around at every position.  Even poor teams have gusy who stand out and makes plays and display their talent and pro bowl ability.  Look at at Arizona, Texans and Detroit.

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INJURY PRONE kitty.... Unbelieveable funny..

Not true but my goodness. YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF INJURY PRONES PUSSIES!!!

When you have no facts... call someone an INJURY PRONE kitty.. Insult them. Good Stuff.

 

Sincerly,

An Injury Prone kitty