Is JP kicking Holcomb's tail?

[AJ1]

Good point.  Maybe the conventional wisdom that Holcomb is mediocre at best is off the mark.  I agree that JP is a no-brainer to start unless one of the other two has an eye popping camp and JP plays like a train wreck.  Still, at this point in his career, I would have expected to see more.  If you told me just before we drafted him that three years later we would be wondering if he or Kelly Holcomb gave us a better chance at winning, I probably would have said "draft someone else".

 

He isn't a bust by any means but at some point, I would argue that this season is that "point", he has to produce.  It doesn't have to be wins.  When Kelly first arrived, we didn't win right away but he showed enough on the field to leave no doubt that he was all the QB we were going to need for a long while.

733798[/snapback]

 

If JP had 24 games under his belt, your disappointment with him would have a lot more validity. As it is, the guy's got what---8 games experience?

 

Kelly started for two seasons in the USFL before he appeared in a Bills uniform. You admit, even then, Kelly needed more polishing.

 

So what will make you happy? If JP improves to 55% passing and a 73 QB rating does he stay? Anything less, he's gone?

[IDBillzFan]

He got half the starts.  How many does he need before we can legitimately expect him to start producing, if not wins, at least some hope that we won't need to draft another QB for a long while?

733802[/snapback]

I'd like to see him start an entire season and not get pulled, then put back in, then pulled, then put back in simply because our coaches are a bunch of pussified chickenshcitts.

 

One thing I know for sure: Holcomb is in no way, shape or form, the future of this franchise, so let's find out if Losman can do it, and if not, cut bait and move on. But you surely don't do that after eight starts under coaches who didn't know what the hell they were doing.

[IDBillzFan]

I can't tell whether that's sarcasm or not.

733803[/snapback]

Dead serious, man. You can't argue with a 17-yard throwing average. You just can't. Hell, Holcomb can't even IMAGINE throwing a ball 17 yards unless it's 4th and 20.

 

Get Kingsbury in there and see what he can do, dammit!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Dead serious, man. You can't argue with a 17-yard throwing average. You just can't. Hell, Holcomb can't even IMAGINE throwing a ball 17 yards unless it's 4th and 20.

 

Get Kingsbury in there and see what he can do, dammit!

733831[/snapback]

 

Isn't he a tad flutie-esque?

[IDBillzFan]

Isn't he a tad flutie-esque?

733841[/snapback]

The dude is 6' 3" and 220 pounds. Flutie was...what? 5'1" or something?

 

And so what if he was Flutie-esque. All Flutie did was win.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The dude is 6' 3" and 220 pounds. Flutie was...what? 5'1" or something?

 

And so what if he was Flutie-esque. All Flutie did was win.

733847[/snapback]

 

K, well, shows how much Texas Tech (was it?) football I watch. Too lazy to google.

 

If this kid's the sh--, then how come he was so...what's the word...unloved?

[Mickey]

Kelly had played two full years as a pro before he came to the Bills. If Losman played two full seasons on the Bills and he was going into his third, I guarantee we'd see a completely different player. The Bills would have sucked the last couple years but they sucked last year anyway. By the end of last year I would have expected the light to be on for JP. Now we have to wait one more full year.

733801[/snapback]

Kelly was even better in the USFL so he showed he could get it done from the git go. So did Manning despite the fact that they lost almost all of their games in his rookie year. Despite the lossed, they showed without question that they could get it done. I agree with you that JP was not handled very well at all last year. Still, I think he is running out of opportunities with this team.

 

Why a full year? He started 1/2 the games last year and he was on the team for a whole year before that, presumably he learned something. I don't buy the notion that he wasn't given a chance until now. He was handed the starting job with no competition, no doubts, nothing after 2004. He had the whole off season and camp to prepare to be the starter and he actually started 1/2 the games. Again, I don't think he needs to be great or produce a ton of wins. He does need to show that he has "game". If we don't start seeing that by week 7 or so, I don't think we'll ever see it.

[IDBillzFan]

K, well, shows how much Texas Tech (was it?) football I watch. Too lazy to google.

 

If this kid's the sh--, then how come he was so...what's the word...unloved?

733865[/snapback]

Because he's not getting a chance to show his stuff. If they'd just give him a chance, dammit.

[Fewell733]

Kelly was even better in the USFL so he showed he could get it done from the git go.  So did Manning despite the fact that they lost almost all of their games in his rookie year.  Despite the lossed, they showed without question that they could get it done.  I agree with you that JP was not handled very well at all last year.  Still, I think he is running out of opportunities with this team. 

 

Why a full year?  He started 1/2 the games last year and he was on the team for a whole year before that, presumably he learned something.  I don't buy the notion that he wasn't given a chance until now.  He was handed the starting job with no competition, no doubts, nothing after 2004.  He had the whole off season and camp to prepare to be the starter and he actually started 1/2 the games.  Again, I don't think he needs to be great or produce a ton of wins.  He does need to show that he has "game".  If we don't start seeing that by week 7 or so, I don't think we'll ever see it.

733867[/snapback]

 

And by what gauge will we determine whether he has "game" or not? Is it when the ESPN dolts start tossing compliments his way?

 

I think he has shown that he has "game"- see KC game last year and first half vs. Miami. What he still lacks is the consistency that comes with experience.

[ganesh]

  I think he has shown that he has "game"- see KC game last year and first half vs. Miami.  What he still lacks is the consistency that comes with experience.

733897[/snapback]

Something that even Manning did not show in his 1st year and the younger

Manning is yet to show in 2 years of starting in this league......

[Mickey]

Dead serious, man. You can't argue with a 17-yard throwing average. You just can't. Hell, Holcomb can't even IMAGINE throwing a ball 17 yards unless it's 4th and 20.

 

Get Kingsbury in there and see what he can do, dammit!

733831[/snapback]

This would probably not be the right time to point out that Holcomb actually had a higher yards per attempt average than JP did last year (6.5 to 5.8) or that Holcomb had 14 plays over 20 yards and JP had 15.

[Mickey]

And by what gauge will we determine whether he has "game" or not?  Is it when the ESPN dolts start tossing compliments his way?   

 

  I think he has shown that he has "game"- see KC game last year and first half vs. Miami.  What he still lacks is the consistency that comes with experience.

733897[/snapback]

I think when he plays well enough to keep Kelly Holcomb on the bench that would be one sign. Or perhaps improving on his 31% completion percentage in the red zone would be another. If you think the only problem JP has is what those at ESPN are saying about him, you need to watch some tape from last year. Maybe start with his performance against New England, at home.

 

Maybe if he puts up numbers in this, his third year in the league, comparable to what Carson Palmer did in his third year, then maybe we can make that call.

 

Plamer had a 67.8% completion percentage 32 touchdowns and a 101 rating.

 

In any event, we will see this year. I can't imagine that if he has another year like he did last year that we'll be going through this again next year.

[Bflojohn]

In my view, this is sheer insanity! Terry Bradshaw got benched through his early struggles and Phil Simms was benched in his third year! In this era of "what have you done for me lately", these two would have been cut out into the street. Losman NEEDS TIME UNDER CENTER! Plain and simple! Oh, and a coach that doesn't hear all the fans. Marv Levy said, If you listen to the fans, you're doomed to sit with them eventually. The Baltimore Ravens have NOT given Kyle Boller enough time in my estimation, and the ramifications of that move they made bringing in McNair will likely have a detrimental effect on his career in Baltimore! What has he started.... 32 games or so.... Losman, what 8?! DO THE MATH!! The funny thing about Boller is that he was starting to "get it" and they pulled the plug. Ouch!!!

[IDBillzFan]

This would probably not be the right time to point out that Holcomb actually had a higher yards per attempt average than JP did last year (6.5 to 5.8) or that Holcomb had 14 plays over 20 yards and JP had 15.

734067[/snapback]

This is the PERFECT time to point it out. Kingsbury averaged SEVENTEEN FREAKING YARDS PER COMPLETION!!! Why he isn't getting reps is beyond me.

[keepthefaith]

In my view, this is sheer insanity! Terry Bradshaw got benched through his early struggles and Phil Simms was benched in his third year! In this era of "what have you done for me lately", these two would have been cut out into the street. Losman NEEDS TIME UNDER CENTER! Plain and simple! Oh, and a coach that doesn't hear all the fans. Marv Levy said, If you listen to the fans, you're doomed to sit with them eventually. The Baltimore Ravens have NOT given Kyle Boller enough time in my estimation, and the ramifications of that move they made bringing in McNair will likely have a detrimental effect on his career in Baltimore! What has he started.... 32 games or so.... Losman, what 8?! DO THE MATH!! The funny thing about Boller is that he was starting to "get it" and they pulled the plug. Ouch!!!

734082[/snapback]

 

 

Right on!

 

I don't think we can expect that in the offseason JP suddenly became a much better QB. He's got to play in order to get better. Heck, we haven't even seen any pre-season action yet this year and we're trying to make judgements on early training camp reports? With all of the changes the Bills team has gone through in the offseason, expect them to play some bad games early in the season and expect whoever is QB to look bad in some of those. Getting a running game going is the best thing they can do for the QB.

[MDH]

Why a full year?  He started 1/2 the games last year and he was on the team for a whole year before that, presumably he learned something.  I don't buy the notion that he wasn't given a chance until now.

733867[/snapback]

 

He missed most of training camp his rookie year and once the season starts it's not like the backup is getting a lot of reps. Last year he had an entire training camp and 8 games started. If you think a guy should come out and shine after one training camp, 8 games started and another 7 practices in training camp I think you're expecting way too much.

 

Coming out of college Losman was said to be a project type pick, a guy that would take longer than normal to groom. So we have a guy that many thought would take longer than normal and expect him to show results in a shorter than average period. Just great.

[Mickey]

Something that even Manning did not show in his 1st year and the younger

Manning is yet to show in 2 years of starting in this league......

733903[/snapback]

Didn't the Giants win 11 games with Eli at the hlem last year? He only started 7 games his first year so, applying the JP standard, that year doesn't count.

Peyton had a 72 rating, 57% completion rate and 26 touchdowns playing for, at the time, the worst team in the NFL. Sadly, all those rookie year numbers beat JP's second year numbers. Nowhere to go but up I say.

[Mickey]

In my view, this is sheer insanity! Terry Bradshaw got benched through his early struggles and Phil Simms was benched in his third year! In this era of "what have you done for me lately", these two would have been cut out into the street. Losman NEEDS TIME UNDER CENTER! Plain and simple! Oh, and a coach that doesn't hear all the fans. Marv Levy said, If you listen to the fans, you're doomed to sit with them eventually. The Baltimore Ravens have NOT given Kyle Boller enough time in my estimation, and the ramifications of that move they made bringing in McNair will likely have a detrimental effect on his career in Baltimore! What has he started.... 32 games or so.... Losman, what 8?! DO THE MATH!! The funny thing about Boller is that he was starting to "get it" and they pulled the plug. Ouch!!!

734082[/snapback]

How long and how bad does he have to play before it is fair to evaluate him? I certainly agree that 8 games was not enough. By the same token, I am not willing to turn the next two years into an extended training camp for Losman's benefit. At some point, this team's job is to win games, not train quarterbacks.

[Mickey]

This is the PERFECT time to point it out. Kingsbury averaged SEVENTEEN FREAKING YARDS PER COMPLETION!!! Why he isn't getting reps is beyond me.

734089[/snapback]

Its a travesty. Lets start a petition.

[Mickey]

Right on!

 

I don't think we can expect that in the offseason JP suddenly became a much better QB.  He's got to play in order to get better.  Heck, we haven't even seen any pre-season action yet this year and we're trying to make judgements on early training camp reports?  With all of the changes the Bills team has gone through in the offseason, expect them to play some bad games early in the season and expect whoever is QB to look bad in some of those.  Getting a running game going is the best thing they can do for the QB.

734091[/snapback]

No final judgment, just taking the pulse. I hoped JP would run away with it in camp from the git go. Hasn't happened at least based on just about every camp report posted here. That is not the end of the world but it isn't a good sign is it?