Camp tidbits

[Mike32282]

Awesome report!

 

I had a really sh------- view, so I just took some photos and tried to watch it. I didn't take any notes. But what everyone is describing is what i saw.

[Mickey]

From what I read. All but 6 passes were completed last night and one of those was dropped by the receiver and on another one the receiver fell down. That's pretty accurate, if you ask me.

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Here are some quotes from the reports posted here:

 

"Bad things from JP was inconsistency and accuracy, he threw a couple passes into the ground."

 

"Both Losman and Holcomb were good at times and sucked at times."

 

"JP seemed to do great on 7-on-7, but when it came to 11-on-11 he simply didn't perform very well with a rush in his face... He put a couple throws right in the dirt w/ pressure on him."

 

"Both JP Losman and Kelly Holcomb shared the practice time and again neither one stood out."

 

"This is where JP Losman lost the day. He started off by throwing to the feet of Robert Royal and then threw another low pass to Josh Reed's feet...Losman came in and overthrew Daimon Shelton."

 

"When he came back on the field, Losman overthrew Lee Evans and then threw a pass that was a little low to Anthony Thomas..."

 

I'll say it again, from the reports it appears that at best, JP is playing slightly better than Holcomb and he is struggling with accuracy. I don't know about you but I was hoping for a lot more than a starting QB that is slightly better than Kelly Holcomb.

[Matt in KC]

I've believed for sometime now that JP's real problem last year was, quite simply, accuracy.  He was flat out missing too many open WR's on too many occasions.  Often on short routes.  I haven't seen him in camp yet but from the reports posted here, he is still struggling with accuracy.  Not a good sign folks.

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When he first started, we heard again and again that we had a top defense and ST unit and JP just needed to not make big mistakes for us to win. At first, JP seemed to be consistently placing the ball where the receiver had a shot at it, but not the defender. It's clear, however that he needs to throw the ball to the WR (not their feet) and let them battle the defenders from there.

 

In a nutshell, I think JP may not be inaccurate, but a victim of past coaching that's made him risk-adverse. That in turn has solidified into a habit of throwing low balls, of which there have been several reports from camp ("worm-burns" I recall reading). But, reports of QB inaccuracy this early in TC are to be expected since so much is learning the receivers and "clicking" on the timing.

 

A counter-point to the above: JP "set the Tulane career record for lowest interception percentage in school history with a mark of 2.73 (27 INTs in 987 attempts) " He ended up throwing less than half as many INTs as TDs (60) at Tulane. Unfortunately, this speaks to a long-established habit of playing it safe, or a cautious personality, which we're unlikely to be able to coach out of him in a year.

[ganesh]

Good report.  Thanks! 

I've heard several people say Fast Freddie looks better than anticipated.  (Quick everyone, go find that WR prediction thread and update your choices!) The WR cuts are going to be interesting this year.

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That is why I am upset that they gave Josh Reed that contract with that big

signing bonus......

[rockpile]

Thanks for the report.

 

Boy, in camp report after camp report, we are hearing the same thing.  First, neither QB is clearly outplaying the other.  Second, JP continues to have problems with accuracy.  When we drafted JP, I can't believe anyone was thinking, "hey, maybe he will be slightly better than Kelly Holcomb, yippeee" .  I've believed for sometime now that JP's real problem last year was, quite simply, accuracy.  He was flat out missing too many open WR's on too many occasions.  Often on short routes.  I haven't seen him in camp yet but from the reports posted here, he is still struggling with accuracy.  Not a good sign folks.

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Not in my report.

 

I thought they both looked fine. I thought JP was the better of the two. They did a lot of short passes to RBs, WRs and TEs, a nice screen, some very well executed crossing patterns to split the zone for 10-15 yards, a couple 5 yards and out to the TEs - HOW MUCH HAVE WE MISSED THAT DIVERSITY?

 

I liked the way they mixed things up. At least two reverses, and lots of work for ALL the RBs to see who will stay.

 

Only problem I had was that bleacher seats suck when compared to the stadium. I was glad they stayed off the turf, though. Someone mentioned the heat index was 28 degrees higher on the turf.

[Ramius]

Thanks again for the great camp report!always appreciated by us out fo towners!

[EC-Bills]

Thanks again for the great camp report!always appreciated by us out fo towners!

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Ditto!

[Buffan00]

If the number of questions about completely different players on this team serves as any indication, do we actually have that much talent?

 

In my short career in posting - rather than merely reading - I have never seen so many questions asked about so many different players. Not sure what this indicates.

 

As always, I can't wait to hear from BillNYC that we didn't draft an O line - but I dunno, does this many questions mean that we might actually have that many competitve issues to answer(that would be a good thing) or does it mean that we are straw-grasping?

 

Alls I know is I can't wait to see camp on Monday and Tuesday for myself. I have made a living both playing poker(pre-rounders) and being a consultant(also pre-rounders) and I have never, and I mean, never, saw JP's eyes look that confident(read: not cocky, but strangley - sure. The kind of eyes that tells you to fold that lame ass Queen 10 hand before you see the flop). I am taking my observations from bb.com - try it out and u tell me - but I swear I saw something different. I am not saying better - but even Holcomb's Arm should agree - different.

 

Most of you that read my posts know that I know a thing or two about walking that line between confident an cocky. Unfortunately, my age-old rule: "It's not bragging if you can do it", doesn't really apply in JP's case. I am very curious to hear/see what everybody else thought when they watched that.

 

Something hit me between the eyes. I just hope it's not crap from the monkey, 1 beer from a six pack, the entire state of Alaska, all bots and robotic arms, please - anything but pyrite(I know the daughter of the guy who invented that glass and she's annoying too - it must be a side effect - no testing me because I will sick her on you(I have that power, even all the way from Philly.) Billieve me when I tell you that that is the worst possible thing I could do to any of you - J/K. Seriously, pyrite_girl spends a lot of time on her(I surmise) posts and we should all, if nothing else, respect that! I often find myself either enriched or confused - but hey - isn't that why we do this?

 

Back to calling people out - BF please do not hit me with pickle juice between the eyes - you silly, silly man. I have no interest in getting dotted by buftex between the eyes unless she(come on that one is obvious) will tell us who she gets all the jucy info from. Ed is still gay. Honda FIT. Ha - we got that in again. (LA is left out because...no reason)

 

If I left you out please don't be offended. I, or I am sure someone, will harass you later. Either way, laying down with dogs - fair and balanced or not - will only produce GGs. Or something like that....don't pay attention to me - the first part of this might have shown some insight the rest is aimless rambling.

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What in the Hell was that all about??? Are you drunk?

[LevysEraII]

Here are some quotes from the reports posted here:

 

"Bad things from JP was inconsistency and accuracy, he threw a couple passes into the ground."

 

"Both Losman and Holcomb were good at times and sucked at times."

 

"JP seemed to do great on 7-on-7, but when it came to 11-on-11 he simply didn't perform very well with a rush in his face...  He put a couple throws right in the dirt w/ pressure on him."

 

"Both JP Losman and Kelly Holcomb shared the practice time and again neither one stood out."

 

"This is where JP Losman lost the day.  He started off by throwing to the feet of Robert Royal and then threw another low pass to Josh Reed's feet...Losman came in and overthrew Daimon Shelton."

 

"When he came back on the field, Losman overthrew Lee Evans and then threw a pass that was a little low to Anthony Thomas..."

 

I'll say it again, from the reports it appears that at best, JP is playing slightly better than Holcomb and he is struggling with accuracy.  I don't know about you but I was hoping for a lot more than a starting QB that is slightly better than Kelly Holcomb.

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I got this from BB.com

 

Hot night for offense

The warm temperatures appeared to warm up Buffalo's offensive unit Tuesday night as both Kelly Holcomb and J.P. Losman collectively played their best since training camp opened.

 

There were just six incompletions the entire night and one pass was dropped and another pass fell incomplete when a receiver fell down on his route.

 

"It was good," said Losman of the offense's performance on the night. "Collectively both quarterbacks and the whole group, we all did well. It was a good day, it was our best day so far."

 

"At times they looked good, they take turns, but they're getting a lot of reps so hopefully something good will come out of it," said Jauron of the quarterbacks. "I don't have any timetable, we'll just keep watching them, keep studying them and keep all the stats for what they're worth. They've got to add value because you have to base it on something."

 

Losman hit Robert Royal for a touchdown during a 7-on-7 red zone period. He also delivered a pretty looking pass to Sam Aiken in traffic. Kelly Holcomb's best throw was one during the blitz period when he got a pass off over the middle in the face of pressure to George Wilson who gained separation and used the open area of the deep middle for what would have been a first down reception.

 

Losman had one interception off a tipped pass that went straight up in the air. Rookie linebacker Keith Ellison came up with the takeaway.

[R. Rich]

Awesome report!   

 

I had a really sh------- view, so I just took some photos and tried to watch it.  I didn't take any notes.  But what everyone is describing is what i saw.

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From your sh------- view?

[Mickey]

I got this from BB.com

 

Hot night for offense

The warm temperatures appeared to warm up Buffalo's offensive unit Tuesday night as both Kelly Holcomb and J.P. Losman collectively played their best since training camp opened.

 

There were just six incompletions the entire night and one pass was dropped and another pass fell incomplete when a receiver fell down on his route.

 

"It was good," said Losman of the offense's performance on the night. "Collectively both quarterbacks and the whole group, we all did well. It was a good day, it was our best day so far."

 

"At times they looked good, they take turns, but they're getting a lot of reps so hopefully something good will come out of it," said Jauron of the quarterbacks. "I don't have any timetable, we'll just keep watching them, keep studying them and keep all the stats for what they're worth. They've got to add value because you have to base it on something."

 

Losman hit Robert Royal for a touchdown during a 7-on-7 red zone period. He also delivered a pretty looking pass to Sam Aiken in traffic. Kelly Holcomb's best throw was one during the blitz period when he got a pass off over the middle in the face of pressure to George Wilson who gained separation and used the open area of the deep middle for what would have been a first down reception.

 

Losman had one interception off a tipped pass that went straight up in the air. Rookie linebacker Keith Ellison came up with the takeaway.

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The Buffalo News had a different take on the pick by Ellison:

 

"Losman forced a pass into coverage that was intercepted by rookie linebacker Keith Ellison."

 

 

The quotes I used were drawn from all the camp reports, not just the one described as the best one for the QB's since camp opened.

 

Last year, JP gave plenty of reasons for us to be worried about his accuracy such as a completion percentage of 49% and even worse, 31% in the red zone. Playing in the same offense and with the same personnel, Holcomb threw completions 67.4% of the time and inside the red zone, he completed 70% of his passes. No, that doesn't mean that I think Holcomb should start, far from it. What it does mean is that the reason Losman wasn't much more effective than a mediocre Holcomb despite his vastly superior physical skills was because he was not accurate.

 

I haven't read a single report raving about how JP is kicking Holcomb's butt in the QB competition or that JP is playing significantly better than last year other than a few menitons that he isn't looking to run quite as quickly as he did last year. Instead, I have been reading offhand remarks such as the ones I quoted that pretty much describe the same problems he had last year and the same degree of difference, ie not very much, between Holcomb and JP.

[2003Contenders]

The Buffalo News had a different take on the pick by Ellison:

 

"Losman forced a pass into coverage that was intercepted by rookie linebacker Keith Ellison."

The quotes I used were drawn from all the camp reports, not just the one described as the best one for the QB's since camp opened.

 

Last year, JP gave plenty of reasons for us to be worried about his accuracy such as a completion percentage of 49% and even worse, 31% in the red zone.  Playing in the same offense and with the same personnel, Holcomb threw completions 67.4% of the time and inside the red zone, he completed 70% of his passes.  No, that doesn't mean that I think Holcomb should start, far from it.  What it does mean is that the reason Losman wasn't much more effective than a mediocre Holcomb despite his vastly superior physical skills was because he was not accurate.

 

I haven't read a single report raving about how JP is kicking Holcomb's butt in the QB competition or that JP is playing significantly better than last year other than a few menitons that he isn't looking to run quite as quickly as he did last year.  Instead, I have been reading offhand remarks such as the ones I quoted that pretty much describe the same problems he had last year and the same degree of difference, ie not very much, between Holcomb and JP.

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1. Anyone who watched all 16 games last year knows that Holcomb and JP did NOT play in the same offense. The coaches went with a more conservative style passing game that well suited Kelly's skills, when he was in there. Converesley, they NEVER put JP in such a low-risk situation. I'm not beating up on Holcomb, but there is a major difference in completing a high percentage of dink-and-dunk passes versus the downfield variety. Does JP need to improve his completion percentage? Absolutely. But let's not compare apples to oranges here.

 

2. I actually would be encouraged to see JP "slightly" better than Kelly Holcomb at this juncture of his career. Holcomb is a veteran who has been around for quite some time. At this point in Troy Aikman's career, he wasn't even as good as some of the other QBs that the Cowboys had on the roster. Lucky for the 'Boys that they road through those first two bad years with Aikman, rather than make the knee-jerk move to, say, Steve Walsh. Considering what we have invested in JP -- and the liklihood that this is going to be a non-contender year for the Bills anyway -- the team should use the season to determine for once and for all whether or not JP has "it". If he hasn't made dramatic strides to improve by year's end, then at least we know.

[Mickey]

1. Anyone who watched all 16 games last year knows that Holcomb and JP did NOT play in the same offense. The coaches went with a more conservative style passing game that well suited Kelly's skills, when he was in there. Converesley, they NEVER put JP in such a low-risk situation. I'm not beating up on Holcomb, but there is a major difference in completing a high percentage of dink-and-dunk passes versus the downfield variety. Does JP need to improve his completion percentage? Absolutely. But let's not compare apples to oranges here.

 

2. I actually would be encouraged to see JP "slightly" better than Kelly Holcomb at this juncture of his career. Holcomb is a veteran who has been around for quite some time. At this point in Troy Aikman's career, he wasn't even as good as some of the other QBs that the Cowboys had on the roster. Lucky for the 'Boys that they road through those first two bad years with Aikman, rather than make the knee-jerk move to, say, Steve Walsh. Considering what we have invested in JP -- and the liklihood that this is going to be a non-contender year for the Bills anyway -- the team should use the season to determine for once and for all whether or not JP has "it". If he hasn't made dramatic strides to improve by year's end, then at least we know.

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We have been around this bend before in another thread. The numbers didn't reflect the notion that Holcomb threw short and JP long hence the difference in completion percentages. The differences in their yards per catch and yards per attmept numbers was fairly insignificant. Same with the numbers of completions for over 20 yards. Certainly, the offense was not all that different in the red zone.

I watched the offense plenty last year and I did not see a huge difference in the play calling. It is true that the coaching was awful, the line was awful, the defense was awful and the play calling was awful. However, I think the notion that it was dramatically better when Holcomb was in there than when JP was in there is unrealistic. It was all bad for both QB's.

 

In any event, here is the thread where all this was covered, you'll find enough stats there to choke a horse. JP and accuracy

[rockpile]

The Buffalo News had a different take on the pick by Ellison:

 

"Losman forced a pass into coverage that was intercepted by rookie linebacker Keith Ellison."

The quotes I used were drawn from all the camp reports, not just the one described as the best one for the QB's since camp opened.

 

Last year, JP gave plenty of reasons for us to be worried about his accuracy such as a completion percentage of 49% and even worse, 31% in the red zone.  Playing in the same offense and with the same personnel, Holcomb threw completions 67.4% of the time and inside the red zone, he completed 70% of his passes.  No, that doesn't mean that I think Holcomb should start, far from it.  What it does mean is that the reason Losman wasn't much more effective than a mediocre Holcomb despite his vastly superior physical skills was because he was not accurate.

 

I haven't read a single report raving about how JP is kicking Holcomb's butt in the QB competition or that JP is playing significantly better than last year other than a few menitons that he isn't looking to run quite as quickly as he did last year.  Instead, I have been reading offhand remarks such as the ones I quoted that pretty much describe the same problems he had last year and the same degree of difference, ie not very much, between Holcomb and JP.

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If I may be so bold

 

1. The pass was tipped, and Keith Ellison got the INT because he was lying on his back and the ball fell into his lap! Not a knock on Ellison, since he was a big part of the traffic and pressure, and was in the right place at the right time, with an assist from gravity.

 

 

2. You did not read my report. WTF does the Buff News know, those hacks!

[R. Rich]

2. You did not read my report. WTF does the Buff News know, those hacks! 

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Gotta agree w/ you there, Rock.

 

All they do is misinform on what the Bills are doing and whine and complain about the moves the front office makes.

 

If only they were more like TBD...

[cåblelady]

Video, including the reverse.

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Sweeeeet !

[bluenews]

- Fletcher is listed at 5'9'' and Crowell at 6'1'', but anyone who gets the chance to look at them i swear crowell is only a half inch to an inch taller than fletcher, i dont know if that means crowell is shorter or fletcher is taller but i just noticed it.

 

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One of the best reports I've read thus year! Thanks for providing good information, especially the height difference or lack of between Fletcher and Crowell. I thought it was just me.......

[ans4e64]

This is good news if your observations are true. I will be going to camp soon and will look for that as well.

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Yeah, but i was also standing next to him at the fence after practice so i got a good view of what he looked like with his shoulder pads off. I remember thinking his arms used to be huge but not anymore.