John from Riverside Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 GET YOUR @SS INTO CAMP.... Or fire him....simple as that - I personally liked the pick of Whitner regardless of what ESPN and basically the rest of the media world thought.....but the fact is he was picked WAY ahead of where he was slotted. Frankly they should be greatful at the fact that he is going to make a lot more money then he should have based on where he probably would have gone.....show some fricken gratitude and get into camp. - Every day he misses is a day closer to Bowen starting the season.......rooks cannot afford lengthy holdouts in camp. - It seems to me that the first thing that happens (knocking on wood as I type) is that rooks who hold out come in and immediately get dinged up physically because the rest of the team has been working and they have not (probably lifting somewhere but I can tell you as a coach that is NOT the same thing) I really hope he doesn't come down with some kind of hamstring thing after he comes in..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick in RaChaCha Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 "Let's hug it out, biotch" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 GET YOUR @SS INTO CAMP.... Or fire him....simple as that - I personally liked the pick of Whitner regardless of what ESPN and basically the rest of the media world thought.....but the fact is he was picked WAY ahead of where he was slotted. Frankly they should be greatful at the fact that he is going to make a lot more money then he should have based on where he probably would have gone.....show some fricken gratitude and get into camp. - Every day he misses is a day closer to Bowen starting the season.......rooks cannot afford lengthy holdouts in camp. - It seems to me that the first thing that happens (knocking on wood as I type) is that rooks who hold out come in and immediately get dinged up physically because the rest of the team has been working and they have not (probably lifting somewhere but I can tell you as a coach that is NOT the same thing) I really hope he doesn't come down with some kind of hamstring thing after he comes in..... 732063[/snapback] We can't fire him until he actually works for us. I share your frustration but this is a business, gratitude has no place here. He has a career to think of, loved ones to feed, all that. The team isn't going to cut him any slack if he does not perform out of gratitude or sentiment. As for him starting or not, that is a problem for the Bills, not just Whitner. If the Bills want him in camp, they could just sign him. They want a better deal and so does Whitner. Besides, we have no idea what the problem is in negotiations right now. We don't know who, based on the market, is being unreasonable, Whitner or the front office. I see no reason for him to take any deal that does not reflect when he was picked based on the notion that he was drafted higher than he deserved. Buffalo picked him when they did because they thought he was worth that high of a pick. They would sound kind of stupid to now be arguing, if in fact they are, that he isn't worth the pick they spent on him. The only team in the league that can't make the argument that Whitner wasn't worth the 8th pick is the team that spent the 8th pick in the draft on him. How would they explain that to the guy's agent, "Shucks, we were on crack that day, we meant to take him in the second round..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 We can't fire him until he actually works for us. I share your frustration but this is a business, gratitude has no place here. He has a career to think of, loved ones to feed, all that. The team isn't going to cut him any slack if he does not perform out of gratitude or sentiment. As for him starting or not, that is a problem for the Bills, not just Whitner. If the Bills want him in camp, they could just sign him. They want a better deal and so does Whitner. Besides, we have no idea what the problem is in negotiations right now. We don't know who, based on the market, is being unreasonable, Whitner or the front office. I see no reason for him to take any deal that does not reflect when he was picked based on the notion that he was drafted higher than he deserved. Buffalo picked him when they did because they thought he was worth that high of a pick. They would sound kind of stupid to now be arguing, if in fact they are, that he isn't worth the pick they spent on him. The only team in the league that can't make the argument that Whitner wasn't worth the 8th pick is the team that spent the 8th pick in the draft on him. How would they explain that to the guy's agent, "Shucks, we were on crack that day, we meant to take him in the second round..." 732073[/snapback] I just dont understand it though Mickey...I mean it isn't rocket science the money is slotted...the players around him have signed their deals so the amount of the contract should be known at this point..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 We can't fire him until he actually works for us. I share your frustration but this is a business, gratitude has no place here. He has a career to think of, loved ones to feed, all that. The team isn't going to cut him any slack if he does not perform out of gratitude or sentiment. As for him starting or not, that is a problem for the Bills, not just Whitner. If the Bills want him in camp, they could just sign him. They want a better deal and so does Whitner. Besides, we have no idea what the problem is in negotiations right now. We don't know who, based on the market, is being unreasonable, Whitner or the front office. I see no reason for him to take any deal that does not reflect when he was picked based on the notion that he was drafted higher than he deserved. Buffalo picked him when they did because they thought he was worth that high of a pick. They would sound kind of stupid to now be arguing, if in fact they are, that he isn't worth the pick they spent on him. The only team in the league that can't make the argument that Whitner wasn't worth the 8th pick is the team that spent the 8th pick in the draft on him. How would they explain that to the guy's agent, "Shucks, we were on crack that day, we meant to take him in the second round..." 732073[/snapback] I think the message was fire the agent. get your ass in camp and sign the deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 They had all summer to work out a deal, so what's the holdup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Would it be realistic to assume that the length of the contract is the holdup? Whitner was taken behind a player at his position, so unless either side is being rediculous the money/year shouldn't be an issue, unless it's guaranteed money. That leaves length, the Bills will want 6 years, while Whitner is probably looking for a buyout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 They had all summer to work out a deal, so what's the holdup? 732125[/snapback] Who knows? We sure don't. I can only speculate that everyone is watching what the other guy signs for before they do. That takes time. Can you imagine what would happen to the career of an agent who signed his guy, lets say he is the 10th pick in the draft, for 5 years and 10 million two months before camp and then later, the 9th pick signs for 15 million and the 11th pick signs for 12? He would have screwed his client out of about 2 million bucks. What do you say to your client, "oops"? It happens every year like this, every year and yet we still get all shocked and outraged by it. The reason it happens every year like this is because the financial reality of the bargaining situation is what it is. It has to happen this way. It is maddening, I know, but it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Would it be realistic to assume that the length of the contract is the holdup? Whitner was taken behind a player at his position, so unless either side is being rediculous the money/year shouldn't be an issue, unless it's guaranteed money. That leaves length, the Bills will want 6 years, while Whitner is probably looking for a buyout. 732128[/snapback] It is a reasonable assumption but an assumption none the less. For all we know, they could be at loggerheads over disability insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I just dont understand it though Mickey...I mean it isn't rocket science the money is slotted...the players around him have signed their deals so the amount of the contract should be known at this point..... 732106[/snapback] I think it is probably more complicated than you or I will ever know. These contracts have a lot of details and some of them are pretty important. The only "terms" we ever hear about are the basics like time, signing bonuses and the like. There are probably a lot more complicated issues under discussion which we never hear about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think it is probably more complicated than you or I will ever know. These contracts have a lot of details and some of them are pretty important. The only "terms" we ever hear about are the basics like time, signing bonuses and the like. There are probably a lot more complicated issues under discussion which we never hear about. 732138[/snapback] I think you are right, Mickey. My feeling is that they are right now fine-tuning the details of the incentives that would allow the 6th year to be voided, which is one thing that is open to negotiation. I was going to add a joke about how important it is to have things properly slotted before you void, but couldn't think of anything funny to say. Though I did say "void," which is pretty funny. Heh, heh, heh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 - It seems to me that the first thing that happens (knocking on wood as I type) is that rooks who hold out come in and immediately get dinged up physically because the rest of the team has been working and they have not (probably lifting somewhere but I can tell you as a coach that is NOT the same thing) I really hope he doesn't come down with some kind of hamstring thing after he comes in..... His hamstrings might not hurt him as badly as some of the vets might, if he holds-out for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 And the pick gets worse with every passing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 And the pick gets worse with every passing day. 732178[/snapback] Not to worry, I read somewhere that Coy Wire loves Cover 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary owen Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 GET YOUR @SS INTO CAMP....Or fire him....simple as that 732063[/snapback] I tend to feel the same way you do. You always want that guy that your team drafted to be the one that stands out among all the others and says "I took the fair deal and as for the big money, that'll come in time with me showing them what I can do....earning it if you will" but that will not happen today. We need to realize this is still just a kid for the most part. Let's say you are Donte. You get an agent and this agent is like the most hard headed evil car salesman or attourney you'd ever want to meet. He is not negotiating for you only, he is negotiating for his cut as well, and for the sake of future prospects seeing what he did for you, his current clients, and so on. The agent is throwing unimaginable amount of legal forms, terms, and figures at you. You are anxious to snatch up the first offer the Bills throw up, because quite frankly even the league min is probably more money than you ever thought you'd see in your young life. Couple this with all the time you've invested in this agent and all the while he has been your number one source of information concerning business and the future of your life. Remember, these are young dudes and even if he feels every night "I wish I never hired that heartless son of a b*tch as my agent!" he knows he's in too deep and his hands are now basically tied. They probably had him agree to some terms in thier own contract that states he will let them make the call on certain aspects of any proposed team contract. I'm not defending these guys, but there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that the fan never sees. It is just my take that the above is kind of what it's like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 They're squabbling over the length and guaranteed money of the deal. I wish they had a smiley like the "Doh!" smiley but it was raising the one finger salute so I could tell Whitner what I think of his sorry a$$ at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I tend to feel the same way you do. You always want that guy that your team drafted to be the one that stands out among all the others and says "I took the fair deal and as for the big money, that'll come in time with me showing them what I can do....earning it if you will" but that will not happen today. We need to realize this is still just a kid for the most part. Let's say you are Donte. You get an agent and this agent is like the most hard headed evil car salesman or attourney you'd ever want to meet. He is not negotiating for you only, he is negotiating for his cut as well, and for the sake of future prospects seeing what he did for you, his current clients, and so on. The agent is throwing unimaginable amount of legal forms, terms, and figures at you. You are anxious to snatch up the first offer the Bills throw up, because quite frankly even the league min is probably more money than you ever thought you'd see in your young life. Couple this with all the time you've invested in this agent and all the while he has been your number one source of information concerning business and the future of your life. Remember, these are young dudes and even if he feels every night "I wish I never hired that heartless son of a b*tch as my agent!" he knows he's in too deep and his hands are now basically tied. They probably had him agree to some terms in thier own contract that states he will let them make the call on certain aspects of any proposed team contract. I'm not defending these guys, but there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that the fan never sees. It is just my take that the above is kind of what it's like. 732201[/snapback] I don't know what the sticking point is though some have made good arguments the they are likely arguing over 6 years vs. 5 years. Since I don't know what the problem is, I can't blame either side. I think there is just as much chance that he wasn't offered a "fair deal" by the Bills as there is that he turned down such a deal. The team and their lawyers and accountants are fighting it out with his lawyers and accountants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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