Rico Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) See Post #12, this info is wrong. ======================================== Sorry if already posted "Spikes won't be in full pads at the Bills training camp at St. John Fisher, which kicks off today, and he isn't likely to play in any preseason games. He may not even be ready for the first two regular-season games at New England and Miami. His goal is to make his comeback in the home opener Sept. 24 against the New York Jets, when it will be almost a year to the day when he suffered his first and only serious injury playing football." Edited July 29, 2006 by Rico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I didnt know that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 1 year isn't enough? WTF. Is there even a 30% chance he returns to his old self? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCBoston Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 1 year isn't enough? WTF. Is there even a 30% chance he returns to his old self? 731006[/snapback] Achilles injuries take a loooong time to recover from (see Sam Cowart). We might not see the "real" TKO until 2007 -- if ever, frankly. I'm not surprised in this revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I thought he was talking about making his return in week 1? Now its possible it won't be til week 3? That sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I thought he was talking about making his return in week 1? Now its possible it won't be til week 3? That sucks 731020[/snapback] If wants to make it back by week 3 then it is important to set a goal of aiming to play by week 1. Attitude and setting positive aggressive goals helps healing (even if there is no scientific proof it makes a physical difference it clearly helps one roll out of bed when you feel like staying prone all day or helps you do 10 reps when you feel like stopping at 9). The counterweight to this positive approach and aggressive goal setting is that one can also be too aggressive and train hard before you are ready and set your recovery back. One hopes TKO is aware of this dynamic, is honest with himself and with his docs and trainers. As long as he keeps a good positive attitude and the health professional monitor his progess carefully and react well counseling speed up or go slow depending upon objective measures like range of motion and amount of weight he can lift with and without discomfort, he will do the best he can do getting back which is all one can expect even if we ask for even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Not true. Spoke to the man himself, he said that is incorrect speculation. He insists he will be ready by Wk 1. Sorry if already posted "Spikes won't be in full pads at the Bills training camp at St. John Fisher, which kicks off today, and he isn't likely to play in any preseason games. He may not even be ready for the first two regular-season games at New England and Miami. His goal is to make his comeback in the home opener Sept. 24 against the New York Jets, when it will be almost a year to the day when he suffered his first and only serious injury playing football." 730991[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Achilles injuries take a loooong time to recover from (see Sam Cowart). We might not see the "real" TKO until 2007 -- if ever, frankly. I'm not surprised in this revelation. 731009[/snapback] Yeah, it shouldn't be surprising - it's really depressing though. If he turns out like Cowart that's enough to make me vomit. I mean without him we're no better at average at any position save from CB and maybe RB when Willis feels like playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bflojohn Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 SUBJECT TO CHANGE!! That is my suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Yeah, it shouldn't be surprising - it's really depressing though. If he turns out like Cowart that's enough to make me vomit. I mean without him we're no better at average at any position save from CB and maybe RB when Willis feels like playing. 731056[/snapback] I define average as being in the middle third of the league. So any player who is in the top 10 at his position (actually the top 11 if you round off the math) is above average mathematically. Bills meeting that requirement IMHO are: Schobel: His double digit sack numbers and ability to do pass coverage down the field makes him a top 10 RDE in my book. Fletcher: he led the NFL in tackles credited to a player the last 5 years. His smarts have made him the team D captain even though TKO is the better player. His ball handling skills and ability to track and catch a ball in flight as shown with his KR accomplishments links with his constant motor and experience and football smarts reading plays makes me feel confident in him as a cover guy and a greaty fit for the Tampa @ we are apparently going to run. I think he easily is in the top 10 at MLB and it is a travesty he has not gotten a Pro Bowl nod. TKO (assuming he recoveries from injury and Clements who disappointed last year but still merited a franchise tag as a top 5 CB are also on my list. McGee I looks to be a better CB than McGee these days and the "extra" of being one of if not the best KR guy in the NFL adds him to the list as well. It shows how badly we have fallen down on O that I agree that only WM is likely a top 10 guy at his position. However, Evans is a serious threat to achieve this status this year as he is now the go-to guy on the pass. So, even though the team clearly sucks based on the ultimate stat W/L, I think that claiming we only have 2 above average players in terms of their real world performance and/or ability is a misread in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 1 year isn't enough? WTF. Is there even a 30% chance he returns to his old self? 731006[/snapback] We all know how easy it is to recover from this type of injury... just ask Julian Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 29, 2006 Author Share Posted July 29, 2006 Not true. Spoke to the man himself, he said that is incorrect speculation. He insists he will be ready by Wk 1. 731037[/snapback] Looks like you're right... D&C is back-peddling pretty quick from that statement, maybe they pissed TKO off. Link "Spikes, who doesn't expect to play in any preseason games, is shooting to be ready for the regular season opener on Sept. 10 at New England, not the home opener two weeks later against the New York Jets, a more conservative goal that was once mentioned" Once mentioned yesterday. Like others, I just hope he preps well & doesn't rush things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 1 year isn't enough? WTF. Is there even a 30% chance he returns to his old self? 731006[/snapback] His chance of returning to his old self is somewhere just slightly north of 0%. He should still be a solid player like Cowart or Peterson though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 His chance of returning to his old self is somewhere just slightly north of 0%. He should still be a solid player like Cowart or Peterson though. 731344[/snapback] I think the issue for the Bills is going to be how much he comes back. 75-80% of TKO is worth 100% of many other LBs. In addition, how one or several bodies respond to an injury does not conclude how another person will respons=d. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I think the issue for the Bills is going to be how much he comes back. 75-80% of TKO is worth 100% of many other LBs. In addition, how one or several bodies respond to an injury does not conclude how another person will respons=d. We'll see. 731377[/snapback] Actually, the difference between a good player and camp fodder at the NFL level is probably no more than one step. A LB who runs a 4.5 40 yard dash prior to injury would be running a sloth-like 5.4 at "80%". That's not the difference between pre-inury Takeo and Mario Haggan, that's the difference between Takeo and Aaron Gibson. Now I understand the 40 isn't going to determine his performance on the field, but the point is it's a VERY FINE line. If Takeo doesn't come back at 95% or more, he's probably not long for the league. My guess is he'll have lost a half step, like Peterson or Cowart and still be a good NFL LB. Contrary to popular belief here, those guys can still play. As for every body reacting differently, that's not the opportunity for hope here, the hope is that some medical advancement with regard to this injury will advance Takeo beyond where equally great players like Cowart and Peterson have been able to go. As expected, the news hasn't been great in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I define average as being in the middle third of the league. So any player who is in the top 10 at his position (actually the top 11 if you round off the math) is above average mathematically. Bills meeting that requirement IMHO are: Schobel: His double digit sack numbers and ability to do pass coverage down the field makes him a top 10 RDE in my book. Fletcher: he led the NFL in tackles credited to a player the last 5 years. His smarts have made him the team D captain even though TKO is the better player. His ball handling skills and ability to track and catch a ball in flight as shown with his KR accomplishments links with his constant motor and experience and football smarts reading plays makes me feel confident in him as a cover guy and a greaty fit for the Tampa @ we are apparently going to run. I think he easily is in the top 10 at MLB and it is a travesty he has not gotten a Pro Bowl nod. TKO (assuming he recoveries from injury and Clements who disappointed last year but still merited a franchise tag as a top 5 CB are also on my list. McGee I looks to be a better CB than McGee these days and the "extra" of being one of if not the best KR guy in the NFL adds him to the list as well. It shows how badly we have fallen down on O that I agree that only WM is likely a top 10 guy at his position. However, Evans is a serious threat to achieve this status this year as he is now the go-to guy on the pass. So, even though the team clearly sucks based on the ultimate stat W/L, I think that claiming we only have 2 above average players in terms of their real world performance and/or ability is a misread in my view. 731271[/snapback] When I said "positions" I was referring to QB/OL/WR/RB/DL/LB/DB's, not individual players. While Schobel is above average the DL as a whole is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Actually, the difference between a good player and camp fodder at the NFL level is probably no more than one step. A LB who runs a 4.5 40 yard dash prior to injury would be running a sloth-like 5.4 at "80%". That's not the difference between pre-inury Takeo and Mario Haggan, that's the difference between Takeo and Aaron Gibson. Now I understand the 40 isn't going to determine his performance on the field, but the point is it's a VERY FINE line. If Takeo doesn't come back at 95% or more, he's probably not long for the league. My guess is he'll have lost a half step, like Peterson or Cowart and still be a good NFL LB. Contrary to popular belief here, those guys can still play. As for every body reacting differently, that's not the opportunity for hope here, the hope is that some medical advancement with regard to this injury will advance Takeo beyond where equally great players like Cowart and Peterson have been able to go. As expected, the news hasn't been great in that regard. 731466[/snapback] I have no disagreement with any of the numbers presented here. However, in general, i was just observing with a friend that one of the thins which I think is really great about sports is that even after years of watching too many games in many different sports, almost routinely something will happen or a player will give some performance which was totally unexpected by even the wisest of pundits and which the numbers and past experience simply has no precedence for, It was Floyd Landis and his amazing ride which prompted the comment, but I find the same circumstance to exist in a wide variety of other sports at a particular time and place. Sometimes its a performance enhancing drug or technological innovation (which we either find out about or not), sometimes it's pure will and the human condition. sometimes it simply defies explanation The fact that we do not know is what makes this interesting to me. If football (and much less the outcome of injuries) coul really be figured out with any certainty which make any prediction little more than a guess, then football would be far less interesting to me. I would disagree though with the idea that the greatest chance for hope for TKO making a substantial enough or even complete recovery is some medical breaktrough. Actually the greatest chance for hope here is that when TKO was initially diagnosed as having a total tear of his achilles that when they actually went inside, the found either that the tear was not as complete as they thought, was at some point of the tendon which was at its most healable point, or in some other way was different from the Peterson or worse cases. Either way he needed surgery, and once in there he was going to need to be done for the season anyway. The Bills, TKO's docs, and TKO himself would be stupid to give to rosy a picture about what they saw and found once inside. A far better situation exist not to raise expectations of a date of his return that if he healed slowly, slipped in the shower or whatever he failed to meet. I think we all would be foolish to believe totally or simply accept anything but the most basic of medical info about TKO. By far the better course seems to me to wait a few weeks for sure and we will know what his progress or lack thereof is. Right now the best sign we have seen is that the Bills seem to be wanting to find a starting spot for Crowell at SLB. This strongly implies that the starting job at WLB will likely not be available for getting Crowell on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Not true. Spoke to the man himself, he said that is incorrect speculation. He insists he will be ready by Wk 1. 731037[/snapback] I believe you but the blokes on this board need a link and a works cited list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 It did piss him off. When I told him I read that, he was like "What paper said that??? That's just BS" He was really pissed. Glad he layed the smackdown, but hopefully he takes his time, even if it means missing a regular season game or two. Looks like you're right... D&C is back-peddling pretty quick from that statement, maybe they pissed TKO off. Link "Spikes, who doesn't expect to play in any preseason games, is shooting to be ready for the regular season opener on Sept. 10 at New England, not the home opener two weeks later against the New York Jets, a more conservative goal that was once mentioned" Once mentioned yesterday. Like others, I just hope he preps well & doesn't rush things. 731343[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I believe you but the blokes on this board need a link and a works cited list 731535[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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