Pete Priscos take on the QB battle

[BUFFALOTONE]

Bills

J.P. Losman vs. Kelly Holcomb vs. Craig Nall, quarterback

 

Losman, the former first-round pick, will head into camp as the No. 1 guy -- but not a solid No. 1. He has loads of athletic ability and has a rocket for an arm; if he can learn the cerebral side a little better, he has a chance to be a solid starter. The previous coaching staff soured on Losman and turned to Holcomb, who is little more than a journeyman passer. He played well in spurts, but is he really the long-term answer? The new coaches have to find out of Losman is. If he isn't, they need to draft another passer. Nall, who comes from Green Bay where he played little the past four seasons, was expected to be more in the mix. But he was said to be unimpressive in the offseason. Maybe a good camp can change that.

 

Edge:

 

Losman. He has more tools than the other two. The new coaching staff is also said to be giving him a clean slate.

 

Opening day starter: Losman. New offensive coordinator Steve Fairchild did some good things with the Rams passers. Maybe it will rub off on Losman, too.

 

I like what Fairchild has done in St. Louis, but I think all of this is a moot point if our O-line does not come together. If given time to throw I think any of our QB's can be successful. Also if we cant run the ball we are doomed to begin with.

[IDBillzFan]

They didn't sour on Losman, they soured on losing..development be damned.

[5 Wide]

Weren't the offseason reports saying that Nall struggled early but once he started to feel comfortable in Fairchilds system he did quite well. He was in the GB west coast offense for 4 years and it took a little adjusting to Fairchilds more open attack.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Weren't the offseason reports saying that Nall struggled early but once he started to feel comfortable in Fairchilds system he did quite well.  He was in the GB west coast offense for 4 years and it took a little adjusting to Fairchilds more open attack.

729283[/snapback]

 

I heard something similar also. Supposedly he doesnt have the arm strength that JP does. To play in the east in the winter you have to be able to gun it in there. That is another reason I was very happy that we did not draft Leinart, and also a reason why the Jets passed on him also.

[5 Wide]

I heard something similar also. Supposedly he doesnt have the arm strength that JP does. To play in the east in the winter you have to be able to gun it in there. That is another reason I was very happy that we did not draft Leinart, and also a reason why the Jets passed on him also.

729285[/snapback]

 

I agree that Leinart isn't a good bad weather QB (or at least it appears that way). I'm not sure about Nall's arm strength. You read some reports and they say he has a cannon and throws a good deep ball. Others classify his arm as adequate. I guess we'll find out in a couple days

[BUFFALOTONE]

I agree that Leinart isn't a good bad weather QB (or at least it appears that way).  I'm not sure about Nall's arm strength.  You read some reports and they say he has a cannon and throws a good deep ball.  Others classify his arm as adequate.  I guess we'll find out in a couple days

729293[/snapback]

I gotta believe that if one of his intangables was arm strength that Green Bay would not have let him walk away. Especially with their QB situation.

[PromoTheRobot]

They didn't sour on Losman, they soured on losing..development be damned.

729272[/snapback]

Yep. They said "JP, go out there and WIN!" But they left out any gameplan, plays, strategy, blocking, running game, consistancy, etc. When JP didn't win, they soured on him.

 

PTR

[Pyrite Gal]

My sense of the upsides and downsides at QB are these:

 

1. Losman- Lead candidate for the starting slot as his age and demonstrated athleticism which brought him a 1 st round choice give him signficantly higher than the other two. Nevertheless he was simply adrift at times last year and a question remains whether this was due to his youth and overall team dysfunction providing a poor context for development, or is it due to some basic lacking in him as a player which cannot be developed out of him.

 

I do not think anyone really knows and what happens will simply tell which is true.

 

He can actually get much better quickly if the game simply slows down for him as it does for many NFL players. Even if he still is not immediately perfect or even very good he can suddenly clearly be on the right track in terms of production quickly.

 

However, there is a significant possibility that this may never be the case or that it may not be the case for him yet so one cannot simply assume or even ascribe a majority chace that he will prove to be an adequate starter this year. He has shown some positive development as a player from better production as a mop-up his rookie year after he was thrown to the wolves in NE and from some good showings of chemioctry against Miami with new #1 WR Evans.

 

I think he is the lead candidate among the three though it is more likely he will need more time and work as a player before he can be deemed an adequate NFL starting QB.

 

2. Holcomb- He simply has not shown the consistency as a performer or in terms oh is health to be an NFL starting QN, though clearly with some great episodic performances and growing experience he can get the job done in spurts.

 

This may well be his year IF the Bills succed under Fairchild in successfully designing, installing and implementing an O much like the highflying St. L O under Martz which Fairchild most recently came out of. Holcomb should have the judgment and ability based on his lengthy experience to hit the short passes necessary to make this O work IF other pieces fall into place:

 

A. Our OL has clearly better starters this year with Gandy/Retes/Fowler/Villarial/Peters than we had last year with Gady/Anderson/Teague/Villarial/MW but it is unclear and up to stetching and the gods how long this unit will stay intact and back-up development is a big question for us.

 

B. Evans/Price/Parrish/Reed et al. may be an extremely potent crew in this O and Davis/Aiken/Fast Freddy/Nance all will have a fighting chance to replace one of these 4 to make this a really outstanding crew. However, it could end up being Evans plus a bunch of #3 or lower quality WRs and even Evans though I think he will work well is not a sure thing.

 

C. Can WM after being the fastest Bill RB to rush for 2000 yards AND his dismal power outage in the second half of last season not only show his first half form but actually effectively work as a receiver playing the Marshall Faulk role in our O.

 

This could be extremely good with KH or we may hope he nevers plays all season cause JP is clearly improving and has a reasonable chance of ending the year as our likely QB for years.

 

3. Nall- he is a complete wildcard as he has some good episodes and stats in mop-up work for Favre and sitting and watching this likely HOF QB must have taught him a thing or two.

 

However, GB likely has a need for a starting QB and potentially could have needed one as early as his year and the Pack was not willing to invest in this FA to fill that role and keep him away from the Bills.

 

We'll see which Nall shows up.

 

Its going to be fascinating to watch QB this pre-season.

[tennesseeboy]

They didn't sour on Losman, they soured on losing..development be damned.

729272[/snapback]

They soured on losing, okay...but Losman didn't have all that much to do with it. The offense line coach saying that Losman appeared lost at the line of scrimmage (I use the term line of scrimmage loosely as the line didn't do much scrimmaging.) leads me to wonder about where we are going with a guy like that on staff. Bad game day coaching, no offense line, pedestrian running game, and a defense that was mediocre at best is what it was all about.

 

Time to see what Losman can do. I don't think Losman was ever as bad as the old coaching staff made out...and I don't think McGahee was ever as good. Let's see what happens now.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

...and a defense that was mediocre at best is what it was all about.

Calling the Bills' defense from last year "mediocre" is an insult to TRULY mediocre defenses.

[eball]

Calling the Bills' defense from last year "mediocre" is an insult to TRULY mediocre defenses.

729444[/snapback]

No doubt.

 

Look, I wish we could just all agree on the following:

 

a) The coaching staff last year completely !@#$ed things up with regard to how they handled JP;

b) As a result, we are no closer to knowing if he can be the "QB of the future" than we were prior to last year;

c) This season, JP will have to at least earn the starting job rather than have it handed to him;

d) For JP or any Bills' QB to be successful this season, the level of interior OL play will have to improve significantly.

 

Let's get into camp and see what we've got.

[IDBillzFan]

Yep.  They said "JP, go out there and WIN!"  But they left out any gameplan, plays, strategy, blocking, running game, consistancy, etc.  When JP didn't win, they soured on him. 

 

PTR

729326[/snapback]

I'm not sure anyone could convince me that pulling Losman in mid-game was anything more than panic. Little did any of the coaches know (or maybe even care) that most of us were willing to take our lumps for the year with Losman at the helm as long as they KEPT him at the helm and let him develop. Here we are, year three with a first-round QB, and we don't know jackschitt about how good he can or will be.

[AJ1]

No doubt.

 

Look, I wish we could just all agree on the following:

 

a) The coaching staff last year completely !@#$ed things up with regard to how they handled JP;

b) As a result, we are no closer to knowing if he can be the "QB of the future" than we were prior to last year;

c) This season, JP will have to at least earn the starting job rather than have it handed to him;

d) For JP or any Bills' QB to be successful this season, the level of interior OL play will have to improve significantly.

 

Let's get into camp and see what we've got.

729502[/snapback]

 

Honest to God, any OC would would have better than the screwed up excuses he had to deal with...TC and MM couldn't coach their way out the metaphorical wet paper bag(A negative most commentators do not understand about Miami).

[BuffaloWings]

Look, I wish we could just all agree on the following:

 

a) The coaching staff last year completely !@#$ed things up with regard to how they handled JP;

b) As a result, we are no closer to knowing if he can be the "QB of the future" than we were prior to last year;

c) This season, JP will have to at least earn the starting job rather than have it handed to him;

d) For JP or any Bills' QB to be successful this season, the level of interior OL play will have to improve significantly.

729502[/snapback]

I'll agree to all of that. The coaching staff realized that JP wasn't ready and wanted to win at the same time. Bad combination right there. If they had just stayed patient and realized they weren't going to win anything once they got to 1-4, then they *might* have stuck JP back into the spot to learn on the job.

 

The biggest problem was Mularkey wanted to win to save his job.

[BUFFALOTONE]

I'm not sure anyone could convince me that pulling Losman in mid-game was anything more than panic. Little did any of the coaches know (or maybe even care) that most of us were willing to take our lumps for the year with Losman at the helm as long as they KEPT him at the helm and let him develop. Here we are, year three with a first-round QB, and we don't know jackschitt about how good he can or will be.

729508[/snapback]

 

True

[Captain Hindsight]

I gotta believe that if one of his intangables was arm strength that Green Bay would not have let him walk away. Especially with their QB situation.

729304[/snapback]

that new coach up in GB said he really wanted to keep Nall. But i guess Nall assumed that he wouldnt have a shot at starting. those coaches in GB including shurman thought very highly of him. Im still on the JP Bandwagon but dont be surprised if this kid turns some heads

[Pyrite Gal]

I'm not sure anyone could convince me that pulling Losman in mid-game was anything more than panic. Little did any of the coaches know (or maybe even care) that most of us were willing to take our lumps for the year with Losman at the helm as long as they KEPT him at the helm and let him develop. Here we are, year three with a first-round QB, and we don't know jackschitt about how good he can or will be.

729508[/snapback]

 

The interesting thing to me was that MM was so committed, resolute and strong in 2004 after the team had a horrendous start and many of those around him were panicking and ready to throw Bledsoe, Henry, and anything under the bus, MM generally stuck to his guns and stuck with Bledsoe, his scheme, and even let Henry start a game longer than he should have over McHajee.

 

In 2005 MM was jerking Losman on and off the field and change hurt the team. My guess was that playing Losman and the cut of Bledsoe was TD's operation, probably with Ralph's OK at ;east if not his meddling.

 

I hope this year that Ralph stays occurpied getting NYS taxpayers to ship a load of corporate welfare west to the Bills and Buffalo in the form of a state based stadium authority which can put up the capital for a new stadium at far more beneficial loan rates than the private sector and backs it with interest payments from across the state which ships more monet our way for our team.

[Dibs]

....probably with Ralph's OK at ;east if not his meddling.....

729698[/snapback]

What prompts you to think this?

Does Ralph have a history of meddling?

Marv has always said that RW knew his position & would 'always' defer to the expertise of the experts he hired.

More likely (as you said) it was TDs doing. It's far easier to imagine him overstepping his bounds than RW.

[Pyrite Gal]

What prompts you to think this?

Does Ralph have a history of meddling?

 

729743[/snapback]

 

Yep, he does.

 

I think it relates specifically to him hating to pay money to someone to simply sit.

 

1. Flutie and the Bills locked up a playoff spot with a game left in '99 regular season. The Bills rested Flutie (a good move as the munchkin clearly was became less effective throwing the ball as the season went on) and RJ piled up some great stats against an Indy team which stopped trying hard as soon a key player went down with an injury and it became clear from the scoreboard that even if they eked out a victory on the Bills they would not improve their playoff position.

 

Ralph made a number of very positive statements about RJs performance and RJ became the starter in our infamous Homerun Throw-up game.

 

It was not a situation like a Jerry Jones in Dallas where he intruded and made a coaching decision. I think the most appropriate comments from him would have been something along the lines that the team won and he is pleased and its totally a coaches decision. In that context he is pleased about RJ's performance, its up to the HC and he like other Bills fans will find out on Sunday about the starters at evert position.

 

Ralph's comments as I remember them were neither the exteme of a Jones like intrusion or the non-commital happiness of any fan after a win who awaits the football professionals decision as to who starts/

 

I define this middle ground (which as the owner he can do what he wants so be it if this is his style) as meddling.

 

2. Ralph got directly involved in the the final FA negotiations on Jimbo's salary in the mid-90's Again this is his perogative as it is his money, but Ralph directly entered this negotiation making a football assessment of how long Jim had left and reached a "handshake" agreement to reward Jimbo when he signed his next long-term deal, His assessment was totally wrong as Jimbo was forced to retire bu the collected hits he took over the years and a final concussive blow from Jax that saw him leave the game ignominiously on a golf cart.

 

I think this handshake deal actually violated the salary cap as he essentially promised to compesate Jim for play one year in the next cap year and i would not be surprised if sour grapes from his peers over this and other judgements are why he has not gotten the HPF honor he deserves.

 

Again rather than leaving these negotiations to the professionals like Butler he meddled and blew it.

 

3. A piece of non-player idiocy but an example of the same behavior on Ralph's part was his handling of the Wade Phillips firing. He did not meddle persee as the hiring/firing of the front office is his perogative. However, I think this is an example of how money to guys sitting at home drives him wild and he pursued an arbitration to try to recover Wade's additional year on his contract even though all the professional told him he would lose.

 

He lost.

 

One can define the semantics anyway one wants and again he has the ownership and the bucks so he can be stupid if he chooses. However, from the above specific examples to actions like him printing an open letter to fans whining about the lack of attendance and automatic sell-outs like those in our SB years which ignored the fact the Bills put a bad product on the field, Ralph is highly and heavily involved in all aspects of this franchise and on issues like who should start, he takes actions which while thankfully they fall short of Jerry Jones like replacement of the coaches perogative for his constitute meddling in my mind.