Couple of tidbits I heard over the weekend

[MadBuffaloDisease]

No doubt McNally did not have the greatest, or even mid-level talent to work with.  But the fact that the line was "lost" speaks to the coaching.  If players are adjusting and calling the correct schemes, but are just not good enough to execute, that's not the fault of the coach.  But for the coach to say the OLine was "lost," shouldn't he be asking why?

JP looked lost, not the O-line. And it WAS a matter of the players not being good enough to execute the schemes. When you have a bum like Williams, Teague who's getting blown-up in the middle, and a crappy LG, things are a little tough.

McNally's most recent stint with the Giants produced some pathetic OLines.  It's pretty clear he's like 99.9% of the other coaches in the NFL- you're smart with great players and you're an idiot with average to below-average players.  Nobody is a miracle worker- the talent shines through on Sunday.

I think that McNally's rep precedes him. With the Giants and Bills, he was given crap and expected to make something out of it. At the very least, you need SOMETHING to work with because as has been said, he's not a miracle worker. That being said, he's got what looks like something to work with, so the excuses end this year.

[Pyrite Gal]

McNally's line has sucked since he got here. 

 

He's supposed to be able to take a bunch of crud players and get something out of them. 

 

Who cares what McNally says.  He's an average coach and nothing special. 

 

 

727804[/snapback]

 

This judgment is harsh and certainly does not line up with real events.

 

In his time since he arrived for the 2004 season, the OL saw improvement in the OL he inherited from horrendous to adequate and saw it drop back last year from adequate to really bad. At worst, this coach coach needs at least the 3 years accorded a draftee befpre one declares him a bust.

 

In his case, given the long history of Bills failure to develop the OL going back to the days of Kent Hull, you gotta take into account the situation he inherited and the situation abovr him where TD proved to be dysfunctional before one simply declares him a bust. There is no free pass for him as he gets the big bucks to deal whatever situation confronts him. He may not be the right guy for the job if the job requires someone to deal with a horrid pass and a changing framework (I'm not sure who can actually do well in such a situtation). However. the judgment you make simply does not accord with the facts.

 

I think these are the notable items of his two seasons here:

 

 

1. Its hard to go too far in describing how bad the situation on the OL he inherited was. Some may choose to forget the putrid offensive performance of 2003 when folks developed the patpatpatsack name to describe Bledsoe, but the OL while receiving episodes of huge attention (a #4 spent on MW and a first day pick spent on JJ and an FA acquisition of an out of place player to play C) these were only episodes and the OL had never shown signs of a strategy or consistent development since the Kent Hull days. To make matters worse, one of the huge faux pas of the GW "error" was that he hired his buddy Vinky to be OL coach though he had not experience at the position. Forced to move him out as he showed little strategic vision within the context of the GW Noffense and less ability to teach more than the fundamentals to the rookies, GW replaced him with the virtually equally inexperienced Pat Ruel. Finf fault if one wants with JMac, but to assess him as having sucked since he got here with only a mention of his ability to work with crud does not give true justice or accuracy to the level of crud he walked into. Any expectation that with two years he is going to reverse a horrible situation almost 10 years in the making is simply unreasonable.

 

2. JMac himself hinted strongly at the standard of performance needed to accurate assess him by declaring a few times that he was not a miracle worker. This really implied without making a Hobert like admission of how bad it was that quite frankly folks who judged that within a year or two of being here he was going to take a bunch of crud players and get something beynd adequacy out of them simply is living in a fantasy world. The sense that getting good play out of the OL would be the equivalent of turning water into win really states how bad it was.

 

3. His 2004 actually saw some near miraculous work out of him. He literally was hired into a situation where MW hasd been given excused absences from voluntary camp cause the Grammy who raised him had died. He did a great job as best as I can tell from the outside of using a combination of sticks (threatening publicly to move MW to G and thus denying him a big payday as an FA LT even if he turned his game around) and carrots (giving him a gameball when he did work himself back into shape to play and be judged by many outsiders as the best performing Bills OL player in 2004) to momentarily revive him from being a bust. This momentary revival of some performance by the judgment of outside observers of eventual bust MW whom he had nothing to do with selecting was not only evidence of solid work on his part but spoke to how bad the OL was if MW was the best among the bust MW, the oft-injured JJ, the overmatched Teague and the needed to be cut Pacillo he inherited as the 2004 crew he was working with. The fact none of these men are Bills today speaks to the level of crud he inherited and you want to blame him for this. What do think he should have produced with them and was getting rid of them not the best thing he could do in reality. The only argument about this personnel one could make would be to claim he should have resigned JJ early and paid him a ton even though he never started all 16 for the Bills at LT, ended up missing important parts of a quarter of the games he played for us in 2004 and after the market gave him a huge contract to move to SF he ended up on the IR for most of the 2005 season.

 

4. The 2004 team got off to a rocky start as he dealt with the crud, but actually the Bills overall produced a winning season and overall one has to note that the OL did see a drastic reduction in the number of sacks of patpat Bledsoe and did in fact see WM produce 1200 yards in roughly 9 starts. I think this is on the face of it closer to the miracle he said would not happen than the average performance you grudgingly seem willing to give him credit for.

 

5. He deserves kudos for specific work such as:

 

A. Dealing with our complete meltdown at LG, by somehow identifying and training Lawrence Smith off the Ravens PS to start there. Smith proved not to be adequate enough to start at LG, but quite frankly getting a player off of another team's PS to even be a reasonable back-up would have been good work. JMac got limited but quality starts out of Smith and as this was a part of his dealing with the Pacillo meltdown was not bad work on his part.

 

B. Rather than stick with the inadequate but better Smith at LT, JMac led the charge in orchestrating a shift of the little used Bannan from DT to LG in redzone situations. This switch coincided with an increase in redzone production with the objective measure of more scores. In fact, this move became a hallmark of the Bills as folks like DT Adams were given a shot at offensive work and produced in the redzone.

 

C. He did finally oversee plugging Tucker in at LG and this shift coincided with the 6 game win streak which brought us within the shot at making the playoffs that year.

 

D. He became a vocal advocate of moving Peters from TE and ST to RT a position at which he recently signed a long-term deal with the Bills.

 

6. He ain't perfect though and deserves brickbats for signing the failed Bennie Anderson as our LT last year. While he did the best he could do with Teague, JJ and the MW situation he inherited, the Anderson debacle is all on him as it happened on his watch. he seemed to be fooled by the good luck he had getting Lawrence Smith to be an inadequate player but still an upgrade for us over Pacillo/Sullivan off the Ravens PS. Perhaps he assumed he could do even better working with a Rvens starter, but he was a bust.

 

7. These are the yet to be seen issues for him which are too early to judge:

 

A. Reyes is a seeming clear upgrade over the failed Anderson. The JMac MO seems to be to get cost effective and still effective players that other teams choose not to resign because they have a better player or prospect on hand. It would seem to be a football mistake to merely judge Reyes as a castoff unable to play NFL starter quality ball. The Carolina OL was productive with him at RG last year. The good news is that he appears to have not been resigned because the market was going to give him starters money and the Panthers were ready to go with the highly touted Mathis at RG last year. They did not because of Reyes good quality play and because of the team's success led them not to want to rock a working boat. There are questions which remain as to how much demand their was for Reyes so did other professionals make the same judgment JMac did and also whether him lining up previiously in episodes at LG will be enough to allow him to be as productive for us there as he was last year at RG for Carolina. In any case this is a clear upgrade over Anderson and we hope for the best.

 

B. Fowler at C looks like the same MO as the acquisition of Reyes. Fowler was a goner with the Vikes as soon as he signed as they clearly were looking for a one year fill-in for multitime Pro Bowler Matt Birk who went on IR last year. Yet, he was simply productive in the real world as the Vikes first wanted to try longtime Vike Cory Withrow at C and Fowler beat him out about 3 games into the season. Fowler's play coincided with some improved production by Culpepper and the Vikes O which coincided with Fowler's starts. Even better, the combination of Fowler and Brad Johnson at QB coincided with a lengthy win streak which got them close to the playoffs.

 

Like the LG/RG issue with Reyes some outstanding question remain with Fowler. 1. Is he gonna be the Fowler whose play coincided with Vikes wins last year and some good play at Cleveland as a youngster, or will it be defined by the injuries which cost him the end of last season and a game here or there in his career. 2. Was the market not being interested in risking big bucks on him as an FA and leading to Cleve drafting a highly touted C when he was on the roster a sign of some problems or a mistake on their part.

 

We'll see.

 

C. Villarial acquisition as an RG for us was not an unreasonble move as we desperately needed a little experience on this team which saw the loss of perennial Pro Bowler Ruben Brown early under JMac. Villarial like the aging Briwn has been solid but not spectacular for us. The same age demographic which gives him value with a young line also has seen what used to be nicks he could play through become injuries for him and it is questionalbe whether he will last all or much of the season. Potential kudos to JMac in that in addition to Peters, his best acquisition seems to have been early second day draft pick Preston who was a spot starter last year and seems to be poised to step in for Villarial or for Fowler if he dusappoints. The jury is is still out on this prospect.

 

We'll see.

 

Overall, I think a rational judgment about JMac can come this year looking at several situations.

 

1. Can he produce solid back-ups from low round pickss under his watch like Geisinger and Pennington.

2. Will he be able to revive the career of well-regarded failure Aaron Gibvon.

3. What will he find among rejects like Word or Moran, simply having them become the new Greg Jerman's would be fine if our starters were solid but they are not and we need a miracle here.

4. Will Butler be the Bills foolishly not following their own character dictum after they drafted a player who made a vicious in-game hit on a fellow opponent who was unawate and vulnerable to injury or instead did this hit cause folks to not draft a player with the talent to be taken on the first day of the draft.

 

JMac has overseen the development of an OL capable of making an SB with an NYG team which made the big game in 2000 with new players at 4 of 5 OL spots led by FA acquistions former Bills Glenn Parker and Dusty Ziegler. This recen performance was a fair bit above average and coupled with his lengthy career and good results leading to two separate Bengals SB appearances, he clearly deserves a reasonable chance at production.

 

For us to call for his head merely because he blew it with the choice of Bennie Anderson which was a clear mistake on his part would be a act on our part which might define why we have had so many problems over the years.

[smokinandjokin]

This judgment is harsh and certainly does  not line up with real events.

 

In his time since he arrived for the 2004 season, the OL saw improvement in the OL he inherited from horrendous to adequate and saw it drop back last year from adequate to really bad.  At worst, this coach coach needs at least the 3 years accorded a draftee befpre one declares him a bust.

 

In his case, given the long history of Bills failure to develop the OL going back to the days of Kent Hull, you gotta take into account the situation he inherited and the situation abovr him where TD proved to be dysfunctional before one simply declares him a bust.  There is no free pass for him as he gets the big bucks to deal whatever situation confronts him.  He may not be the right guy for the job if the job requires someone to deal with a horrid pass and a changing framework (I'm not sure who can actually do well in such a situtation).  However. the judgment you make simply does not accord with the facts.

 

I think these are the notable items of his two seasons here:

1. Its hard to go too far in describing how bad the situation on the OL he inherited was. Some may choose to forget the putrid offensive performance of 2003 when folks developed the patpatpatsack name to describe Bledsoe, but the OL  while receiving episodes of huge attention (a #4 spent on MW and a first day pick spent on JJ and an FA acquisition of an out of place player to play C) these were only episodes and the OL had never shown signs of a strategy or consistent development since the Kent Hull days.  To make matters worse, one of the huge faux pas of the GW "error" was that he hired his buddy Vinky to be OL coach though he had not experience at the position.  Forced to move him out as he showed little strategic vision within the context of the GW Noffense and less ability to teach more than the fundamentals to the rookies, GW replaced him with the virtually equally inexperienced Pat Ruel.  Finf fault if one wants with JMac, but to assess him as having sucked since he got here with only a mention of his ability to work with crud does not give true justice or accuracy to the level of crud he walked into.  Any expectation that with two years he is going to reverse a horrible situation almost 10 years in the making is simply unreasonable.

 

2. JMac himself hinted strongly at the standard of performance needed to accurate assess him by declaring a few times that he was not a miracle worker.  This really implied without making a Hobert like admission of how bad it was that quite frankly folks who judged that within a year or two of being here he was going to take a bunch of crud players and get something beynd adequacy out of them simply is living in a fantasy world.  The sense that getting good play out of the OL would be the equivalent of turning water into win really states how bad it was.

 

3. His 2004 actually saw some near miraculous work out of him. He literally was hired into a situation where MW hasd been given excused absences from voluntary camp cause the Grammy who raised him had died.  He did a great job as best as I can tell from the outside of using a combination of sticks (threatening publicly to move MW to G and thus denying him a big payday as an FA LT even if he turned his game around) and carrots (giving him a gameball when he did work himself back into shape to play and be judged by many outsiders as the best performing Bills OL player in 2004) to momentarily revive him from being a bust.  This momentary revival of some performance by the judgment of outside observers of eventual bust MW whom he had nothing to do with selecting was not only evidence of solid work on his part but spoke to how bad the OL was if MW was the best among the bust MW, the oft-injured JJ, the overmatched Teague and the needed to be cut Pacillo he inherited as the 2004 crew he was working with. The fact none of these men are Bills today speaks to the level of crud he inherited and you want to blame him for this.  What do think he should have produced with them and was getting rid of them not the best thing he could do in reality.  The only argument about this personnel one could make would be to claim he should have resigned JJ early and paid him a ton even though he never started all 16 for the Bills at LT, ended up missing important parts of a quarter of the games he played for us in 2004 and after the market gave him a huge contract to move to SF he ended up on the IR for most of the 2005 season.

 

4. The 2004 team got off to a rocky start as he dealt with the crud, but actually the Bills overall produced a winning season and overall one has to note that the OL did see a drastic reduction in the number of sacks of patpat Bledsoe and did in fact see WM produce 1200 yards in roughly 9 starts.  I think this is on the face of it closer to the miracle he said would not happen than the average performance you grudgingly seem willing to give him credit for.

 

5. He deserves kudos for specific work such as:

 

A. Dealing with our complete meltdown at LG, by somehow identifying and training Lawrence Smith off the Ravens PS to start there.  Smith proved not to be adequate enough to start at LG, but quite frankly getting a player off of another team's PS to even be a reasonable back-up would have been good work. JMac got limited but quality starts out of Smith and as this was a part of his dealing with the Pacillo meltdown was not bad work on his part.

 

B. Rather than stick with the inadequate but better Smith at LT, JMac led the charge in orchestrating a shift of the little used Bannan from DT to LG in redzone situations.  This switch coincided with an increase in redzone production with the objective measure of more scores.  In fact, this move became a hallmark of the Bills as folks like DT Adams were given a shot at offensive work and produced in the redzone.

 

C. He did finally oversee plugging Tucker in at LG and this shift coincided with the 6 game win streak which brought us within the shot at making the playoffs that year.

 

D. He became a vocal advocate of moving Peters from TE and ST to RT a position at which he recently signed a long-term deal with the Bills.

 

6. He ain't perfect though and deserves brickbats for signing the failed Bennie Anderson as our LT last year.  While he did the best he could do with Teague, JJ and the MW situation he inherited, the Anderson debacle is all on him as it happened on his watch.  he seemed to be fooled by the good luck he had getting Lawrence Smith to be an inadequate player but still an upgrade for us over Pacillo/Sullivan off the Ravens PS. Perhaps he assumed he could do even better working with a Rvens starter, but he was a bust.

 

7. These are the yet to be seen issues for him which are too early to judge:

 

A. Reyes is a seeming clear upgrade over the failed Anderson.  The JMac MO seems to be to get cost effective and still effective players that other teams choose not to resign because they have a better player or prospect on hand.  It would seem to be a football mistake to merely judge Reyes as a castoff unable to play NFL starter quality ball.  The Carolina OL was productive with him at RG last year. The good news is that he appears to have not been resigned because the market was going to give him starters money and the Panthers were ready to go with the highly touted Mathis at RG last year. They did not because of Reyes good quality play and because of the team's success led them not to want to rock a working boat.  There are questions which remain as to how much demand their was for Reyes so did other professionals make the same judgment JMac did and also whether him lining up previiously in episodes at LG will be enough to allow him to be as productive for us there as he was last year at RG for Carolina.  In any case this is a clear upgrade over Anderson and we hope for the best.

 

B. Fowler at C looks like the same MO as the acquisition of Reyes.  Fowler was a goner with the Vikes as soon as he signed as they clearly were looking for a one year fill-in for multitime Pro Bowler Matt Birk who went on IR last year. Yet, he was simply productive in the real world as the Vikes first wanted to try longtime Vike Cory Withrow at C and Fowler beat him out about 3 games into the season.  Fowler's play coincided with some improved production by Culpepper and the Vikes O which coincided with Fowler's starts.  Even better, the combination of Fowler and Brad Johnson at QB coincided with a lengthy win streak which got them close to the playoffs.

 

Like the LG/RG issue with Reyes some outstanding question remain with Fowler. 1. Is he gonna be the Fowler whose play coincided with Vikes wins last year and some good play at Cleveland as a youngster, or will it be defined by the injuries which cost  him the end of last season and a game here or there in his career. 2. Was the market not being interested in risking big bucks on him as an FA and leading to Cleve drafting a highly touted C when he was on the roster a sign of some problems or a mistake on their part.

 

We'll see.

 

C. Villarial acquisition as an RG for us was not an unreasonble move as we desperately needed a little experience on this team which saw the loss of perennial Pro Bowler Ruben Brown early under JMac.  Villarial like the aging Briwn has been solid but not spectacular for us.  The same age demographic which gives him value with a young line also has seen what used to be nicks he could play through become injuries for him and it is questionalbe whether he will last all or much of the season.  Potential kudos to JMac in that in addition to Peters, his best acquisition seems to have been early second day draft pick Preston who was a spot starter last year and seems to be poised to step in for Villarial or for Fowler if he dusappoints.  The jury is is still out on this prospect.

 

We'll see.

 

Overall, I think a rational judgment about JMac can come this year looking at several situations.

 

1. Can he produce solid back-ups from  low round pickss under his watch like Geisinger and Pennington.

2. Will he be able to revive the career of well-regarded failure Aaron Gibvon.

3. What will he find among rejects like Word or Moran, simply having them become the new Greg Jerman's would be fine if our starters were solid but they are not and we need a miracle here.

4. Will Butler be the Bills foolishly not following their own character dictum after they  drafted a player who made a vicious in-game hit on a fellow opponent who was unawate and vulnerable to injury or instead did this hit cause folks to not draft a player with the talent to be taken on the first day of the draft.

 

JMac has overseen the development of an OL capable of making an SB with an NYG team which made the big game in 2000 with new players at 4 of 5 OL spots led by FA acquistions former Bills Glenn Parker and Dusty Ziegler.  This recen performance was a fair bit above average and coupled with his lengthy career and good results leading to two separate Bengals SB appearances, he clearly deserves a reasonable chance at production.

 

For us to call for his head merely because he blew it with the choice of Bennie Anderson which was a clear mistake on his part would be a act on our part which might define why we have had so many problems over the years.

727938[/snapback]

 

I concur.

 

[John from Riverside]

The thing that suprises me is how many "fans" can be so "throw the new QB under the bus" mentality (not talking about folks in this thread as most seem to get it"

 

What were the things we knew about JPL coming out of college.....

 

- Came from a small college program

- Had several mechanical flaws that needed to be corrected

- Was extremely raw....was going to take some time

- Has TONS of talent and potential

 

ANYTIME you are going to play a rookie QB under those circumstances you had better have:

 

- A SOLID offensive line

- A go to check down receiver like a Larry Centers type or a TE

- A defense that can keep the team in games until the QB gets his feet under him

 

The bills provided Losman with NONE of those things....and furthermore they didn't stick with him when he struggled. Kelly Holcomb is NOT the future of this team so the bills need to either stick with the guy they gave up a LOT in the draft for.....or bring in a veteran FA QB worth a damn......

 

Last year was very badly handled

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Last year was very badly handled

It's surprising just HOW many coaches, players, and team personnel felt that last year was a bad situation. All the more reason to be glad TD and Mularkey et al are gone.

[eball]

It's surprising just HOW many coaches, players, and team personnel felt that last year was a bad situation.  All the more reason to be glad TD and Mularkey et al are gone.

727987[/snapback]

The "breath of fresh air" infused by Levy et al into this organization is, I believe, a vastly underrated component of how the 2006 Bills will perform.

[keepthefaith]

I concur.

 

727943[/snapback]

 

 

Yes, such lengthy posts remind me of negotiations I've been through where the other side just wears you down. You get to the point where you'll agree to anything including much that you have never heard or read.

[tennesseeboy]

Given the Line of Scrimmage we had to play with last year, I think Joe Montana, Jim Kelly or Dan Marino would have been lost at the line of scrimmage. THE TRENCHES. We haven't addressed the O'line yet, so I think this will be another rebuilding year, but I think McNally would be on an extremely short leash this year.

[Pyrite Gal]

Yes, such lengthy posts remind me of negotiations I've been through where the other side just wears you down.  You get to the point where you'll agree to anything including much that you have never heard or read.

728009[/snapback]

 

Alright I give. You win.

[tennesseeboy]

The thing that suprises me is how many "fans" can be so "throw the new QB under the bus" mentality (not talking about folks in this thread as most seem to get it"

 

What were the things we knew about JPL coming out of college.....

 

- Came from a small college program

- Had several mechanical flaws that needed to be corrected

- Was extremely raw....was going to take some time

- Has TONS of talent and potential

 

ANYTIME you are going to play a rookie QB under those circumstances you had better have:

 

- A SOLID offensive line

- A go to check down receiver like a Larry Centers type or a TE

- A defense that can keep the team in games until the QB gets his feet under him

 

The bills provided Losman with NONE of those things....and furthermore they didn't stick with him when he struggled.  Kelly Holcomb is NOT the future of this team so the bills need to either stick with the guy they gave up a LOT in the draft for.....or bring in a veteran FA QB worth a damn......

 

Last year was very badly handled

727946[/snapback]

Exactly. And for McNally to throw the quarterback under the bus says a lot about the guy.

[eball]

Exactly.  And for McNally to throw the quarterback under the bus says a lot about the guy.

728028[/snapback]

That wasn't my impression; I took it as more of a "he played like a rookie" comment. To each his own.

[UConn James]

Exactly.  And for McNally to throw the quarterback under the bus says a lot about the guy.

728028[/snapback]

 

I don't know if that's "throwing JP under the bus." You're going to make an argument that JP didn't sometimes looked lost? That he had the full support of the team?

 

JM is stating the obvious about a rookie who was given the job w/o competition. It's how things shook down last season. And thing is, if you ask JP, he'd probably agree; in fact I think he has admitted that in his interviews.

[fbzh2]

Yes, such lengthy posts remind me of negotiations I've been through where the other side just wears you down.  You get to the point where you'll agree to anything including much that you have never heard or read.

728009[/snapback]

 

I agree, far too lengthy....makes good points with solid facts, but posts just too wordy .

[Bill from NYC]

Exactly.  And for McNally to throw the quarterback under the bus says a lot about the guy.

728028[/snapback]

 

Which guy.....McNally or JP?

 

TB, McNally is an experienced, lauded OL coach who was given a squad of misfits to defend a qb who sucked. What would you expect him to say?

[Bob in STL]

You can't make bricks without clay.

727807[/snapback]

 

 

I thought it was straw?

[John from Riverside]

Given the Line of Scrimmage we had to play with last year, I think Joe Montana, Jim Kelly or Dan Marino would have been lost at the line of scrimmage.  THE TRENCHES.  We haven't addressed the O'line yet, so I think this will be another rebuilding year, but I think McNally would be on an extremely short leash this year.

728016[/snapback]

 

I actually disagree that the line was not addressed.....I know that our draft was OL projects but.....

 

I really like Melvin Fowler and what I saw of him....the thing is he is a legit center not a OT converted into a center.....with the little playing time he has gotten he has shown his worth to me....and its the first time in a few years where we had a natural center at the position.....

 

What I have seen of Tuten Reyes also impresses me....I dont look at "who went where" because of money situations with other teams...I look at what I saw when I watched them....

 

Now....neither of these guys are pro bowlers....just solid...BUT we do have an up and comer OT in Peters so I look at the line as solid or possibly above solid....

 

Also....now we have a TE that can actually block....that helps

[HarkinBanks]

I actually disagree that the line was not addressed.....I know that our draft was OL projects but.....

 

I really like Melvin Fowler and what I saw of him....the thing is he is a legit center not a OT converted into a center.....with the little playing time he has gotten he has shown his worth to me....and its the first time in a few years where we had a natural center at the position.....

 

What I have seen of Tuten Reyes also impresses me....I dont look at "who went where" because of money situations with other teams...I look at what I saw when I watched them....

 

Now....neither of these guys are pro bowlers....just solid...BUT we do have an up and comer OT in Peters so I look at the line as solid or possibly above solid....

 

Also....now we have a TE that can actually block....that helps

728104[/snapback]

 

Larry Zierlein, Asst. O-Line Coach, was the offensive line coach for the Cleveland Browns from 2001-2004. Melvin Fowler was with the Browns in 2002 and 2003. The Bills know what they are getting here so we’ll have to assume Coach Z. really likes this guy or would not have brought him in.

[Bill from NYC]

I actually disagree that the line was not addressed.....I know that our draft was OL projects but.....

 

I really like Melvin Fowler and what I saw of him....the thing is he is a legit center not a OT converted into a center.....with the little playing time he has gotten he has shown his worth to me....and its the first time in a few years where we had a natural center at the position.....

 

What I have seen of Tuten Reyes also impresses me....I dont look at "who went where" because of money situations with other teams...I look at what I saw when I watched them....

 

Now....neither of these guys are pro bowlers....just solid...BUT we do have an up and comer OT in Peters so I look at the line as solid or possibly above solid....

 

Also....now we have a TE that can actually block....that helps

728104[/snapback]

 

John, your optimism is ever appreciated.

 

The thing is, bargain basement blockers have not worked for the Bills. We keep bringing them in, and they range from average, to flat out sucking.

CV is one of the top 10 highest paid OGs in football, and even HE sucks. He might not even make the team.

 

The Bills need to address the OL via the draft, and/or big time free agents (if you can find one). Until they do, we will continue to see a parade of losers and losses. If history has taught us anything as Bills Fans, we know that we cannot win with castoffs and misfits up front.

 

Btw, I too have hope for Fowler.

[tennesseeboy]

Which guy.....McNally or JP?

 

TB, McNally is an experienced, lauded OL coach who was given a squad of misfits to defend a qb who sucked. What would you expect him to say? 

728053[/snapback]

I'd expect him to keep his mouth shut, take responsibility for his own failings and improve the offensive line through coaching, good recruiting and advocacy in the draft. But...maybe I'm wrong and whining and bellyaching and blaming the qb is the best way to go.

[Bill from NYC]

I'd expect him to keep his mouth shut, take responsibility for his own failings and improve the offensive line through coaching, good recruiting and advocacy in the draft.  But...maybe I'm wrong and whining and bellyaching and blaming the qb is the best way to go.

728119[/snapback]

 

Your point is made, but "advocacy in the draft?"

 

Levy wants defensive backs. His history proves this, and I don't think he will ever stop. Do you? Seriously.