JP was coddled last year

[RayFinkle]

If Hines Ward and Company thought the same about Ben, after he replaced

a injured Maddox, I am sure the Steelers woulld not be the SB champions that

they are now.

725400[/snapback]

If JP won 15 in a row, you might have a valid agruement.

[ganesh]

If JP won 15 in a row, you might have a valid agruement.

725410[/snapback]

 

Big Ben did not win 15 games before being made the starter....My point was

if the players backed the QB, then we might have seen better results with

JP last year....

[IDBillzFan]

Big Ben did not win 15 games before being made the starter....My point was

if the players backed the QB, then we might have seen better results with

JP last year....

725499[/snapback]

But how many did he win by the time Maddox was healthy again? That's the difference, at least to me. Ben rattled off...what? Three, four straight wins...maybe five by the time Maddox was good to go?

 

When was the last time you saw the Bills win five in a row? I'll be the first to say if Holcomb could even remotely have led us to five straight wins, I'd be packing JP's bags.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

The problem was that the Bills' vets turned on JP even BEFORE he ever played a game, i.e. after Bledsoe was released and JP got the job by default. In BR's case, he played because of an injury to TM, so the vets knew they had to go that extra step to help him out.

 

There's a difference there.

[ganesh]

But how many did he win by the time Maddox was healthy again? That's the difference, at least to me. Ben rattled off...what? Three, four straight wins...maybe five by the time Maddox was good to go?

 

When was the last time you saw the Bills win five in a row? I'll be the first to say if Holcomb could even remotely have led us to five straight wins, I'd be packing JP's bags.

725517[/snapback]

 

Yeah....The steelers did not pull up Ben from the game even when he stunk up

the joint in his first few games...Please check his stats his first few games...

 

Also, I remember how Hines Ward in that game against Miami (during the

hurricane) protected his QB by providing him so smany safety valves and

grabbing desparate, out of control passes by putting in more effort....I can't

ever remember Moulds doing something similar last year.....

[BuffOrange]

Yeah....The steelers did not pull up Ben from the game even when he stunk up

the joint in his first few games...Please check his stats his first few games...

 

Also, I remember how Hines Ward in that game against Miami (during the

hurricane) protected his QB by providing him so smany safety valves and

grabbing desparate, out of control passes by putting in more effort....I can't

ever remember Moulds doing something similar last year.....

725560[/snapback]

 

That Miami game was his first start. He was 12/22 160yds 1 TD, 1 int in a swamp, and that was the worst of his first 6 starts. Hardly "stinking up the joint".

[IDBillzFan]

That Miami game was his first start.  He was 12/22 160yds 1 TD, 1 int in a swamp, and that was the worst of his first 6 starts.  Hardly "stinking up the joint".

725572[/snapback]

Plus, they won. Forgive the cliche, but winning cures everything. If JP stunk up the joint, but we still won the games, we'd have never seen Holcomb. However, to be fair, this is really Ganesh's point, which is that all the Steelers stood up for Ben, but all the Bills did not stand up for JP. That's a huge difference.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I could be wrong but if memory serves me correct Alan Faneca wasn't too happy about Ben Roethlisberger starting as a rookie, the only difference being Roethlisberger did what was asked made few mistakes and won games, where as Losman was eratic, the team was bad and it spiraled downward.

[BuffOrange]

Plus, they won. Forgive the cliche, but winning cures everything. If JP stunk up the joint, but we still won the games, we'd have never seen Holcomb. However, to be fair, this is really Ganesh's point, which is that all the Steelers stood up for Ben, but all the Bills did not stand up for JP. That's a huge difference.

725587[/snapback]

 

True. I won't pretend like the '05 Bills were the '04 Steelers. The defense stunk in the Atlanta game but the running game was fantastic; the offense stunk in the Saints game but the defense was competent. Those games weren't all JP's fault but contrary to popular belief they weren't all Mularkey's fault either - they were winnable with average 2004 Rothlisburgeresque QB play.

[macaroni]

The problem was that the Bills' vets turned on JP even BEFORE he ever played a game, i.e. after Bledsoe was released and JP got the job by default.  In BR's case, he played because of an injury to TM, so the vets knew they had to go that extra step to help him out. 

 

There's a difference there.

725533[/snapback]

 

But I think the MAIN difference was that Big Ben replaced an INJURED vet ..... the other vets on the team could have very easily taken the attitude .... we have to "help the kid out" to maintain our season until Maddox returns ...... then of course Ben puts the winning streak together, and the rest is history.

 

With JP ..... the Bills cut the vet QB (without any competition for the job I may add) and HAND the job to JP ....... IMHO ..... that illuminates a very ugly policy in the minds of every vet on the team, who inturn unfairly "blame" the rookie.

[ganesh]

Plus, they won. Forgive the cliche, but winning cures everything. If JP stunk up the joint, but we still won the games, we'd have never seen Holcomb. However, to be fair, this is really Ganesh's point, which is that all the Steelers stood up for Ben, but all the Bills did not stand up for JP. That's a huge difference.

725587[/snapback]

 

Thanks for making my point more clear LABillzFan. The other thing going for

the steelers that time was they played awesome defense and took the pressure

of their offense....something that our beloved Jerry Gray and his men did not keep the promise

[obie_wan]

True.  I won't pretend like the '05 Bills were the '04 Steelers.  The defense stunk in the Atlanta game but the running game was fantastic; the offense stunk in the Saints game but the defense was competent.  Those games weren't all JP's fault but contrary to popular belief they weren't all Mularkey's fault either - they were winnable with average 2004 Rothlisburgeresque QB play.

725606[/snapback]

 

I was at the NO game.

 

The offense looked good early until meathead decided to take Willis out of the gameplan.

 

Clements looked like a little lost boy trying to cover Stallworth even though Joe Horn was out. The defense did not play good.

 

Bills would have won if McGhee had scored on that return before the half and the team would have gained some confidence in JP.

[ganesh]

I was at the NO game.

 

The offense looked good early until meathead decided to take Willis out of the gameplan.

 

Clements looked like a little lost boy trying to cover Stallworth even though Joe Horn was out. The defense did not play good.

 

Bills would have won if McGhee had scored on that return before the half and the team would have gained some confidence in JP.

725839[/snapback]

 

Or if meathed had not pulled out his QB in the previous game......

[ronbaskin]

The truth is the offensive line, led by Alan Faneca, did not embrace Big Ben in the beginning. Review the press clippings from the time and you'll find many were griping about their season being lost behind a rookie. The difference is they didn't simply gripe and throw in the towel. Maddox is well liked in the locker room, so it was natural his teammates would try to protect his position while he was hurt. Then, it became obvious Roethlisberger had a special chemistry with his receivers and that the running game would still be potent. TD and MM assured the fans Buffalo's record would be better with Losman at the helm instead of Bledsoe. When it became apparent that wouldn't happen, the coach and general manager panicked. Otherwise, I believe most Bills fans were willing to suffer through Losman's early mistakes and give him time to develop. Despite the moves in the offseason, most fans and observers seem to accept the fact that either Losman develops into an above average starter or we start looking for another quarterback in the offseason.

[BuffOrange]

I was at the NO game.

 

The offense looked good early until meathead decided to take Willis out of the gameplan.

 

Clements looked like a little lost boy trying to cover Stallworth even though Joe Horn was out. The defense did not play good.

 

Bills would have won if McGhee had scored on that return before the half and the team would have gained some confidence in JP.

725839[/snapback]

 

I'm glad you were at the game, but I stand by my earlier comment. I didn't say the defense played great - they played well enough to beat a team that has a crappy defense of their own. They have up 1 TD and 19 points. By "offense looking good early" you mean they scored on their first drive, which they did pretty much all season and got shut out after that. If JP needs a miracle kickoff return to boost his confidence then we're in some trouble.

[Marv Levy]

If the BILLS had any kind of offensive line, JP woulda been a hellova lot better. He had ZERO time back there. Not even Steve Young in his prime woulda been good with this O line!!