If you look at this as a rebuilding year

[Deep2Moulds46]

This year reminds me so much of 2002. In 2001 Donahoe just came in and cleaned house and got rid of all of the contracts and talent, and started over from scratch. Levy at least inherited some talent in tact ( Clements, McGee, Spikes, Fletchers, Schobel, Crowell, Peters, Evans, McGahee).

 

If you look at the 2002 roster, Donahoe was building towards a strong run in 2003. I think we all can agree that the team in 2003 ( that went 6-10) was a lot more talented than that record showed, and should have done more.

 

Look at the roster as it is constructed. The first thing Marv did was bring in guys who fit the system, and sign them to long term deals.

 

If you look at a team like the Colts, they don't have great cornerbacks. They have solid cornerbacks in Jason David and Nick Harper, but their studs in the secondary are at safety in Bob Sanders and Marlin Jackson...along with Mike Doss.

 

If you assume Clements is gone after this season, the Bills secondary going forward is........

 

CB- McGee

CB- Youboty

FS- Simpson

SS- Whitner

 

again, if you project these players out based on their predraft rankings ( which is all you can do at this point)....you see solid corners, a complete Ball Hawk at SS......and Marv took a flier on a first day talent in Simpson who stuck around until day two.

 

LB wise, the Bills have Crowell and Spikes locked up for the long term, with Posey and Fletcher free agents. Fletcher is getting older, and may not be able to resign. Marv went out and got Courtney Watson in a trade as an insurance Policy. Is Watson a future pro bowler? No. But in a cover 2 system ( a perfect scheme for his skill set) the Bills wont be stuck with a complete hole at MLB going into next season if Fletcher leaves.

 

OLB- Crowell

MLB- Watson

OLB- Spikes

 

D-Line wise......the cover 2 is all about pass rushers. We went out and got 3 technique 2 DT in Triplett, and drafted one in McCargo.....along with having Tim Anderson who is more of a nose. The Bills as they stand now have 1 good pass rushing DE....and 1 liability. Unless Kelsay makes huges strides this season, You can see where the Bills offseason priority will be.

 

RDE- Schobel

DT- Triplett/ McCargo

DT- Anderson

LDE- Kelsay ( upgrade area)

 

if you factor in the money the Bills will have free'd up if they don't resign Clements or Fletcher ( although I'd like to see them keep FLetcher).......they will have enough money to go get a pass rusher ( Dwight Freeney is set to be a free agent)........or they can draft one as well. In the span of 2 years Marv has taken our defense that was looking old.....and injected young talented players that all fly to the football. Not exactly the 85 bears, but you can see the direction this team is going.

 

 

Last year when this team was losing, the upside was minimal as our 32 year old QB was throwing passes to our unhappy 32 year old WR, while our 32 year old Strong safety couldnt cover run of the mill TE's....and our 33 year old run stuffing DT couldn't stop anyone from running all over our D............and our 32 year old center kept getting bull rushed back into the QB's face. Now, if/when this team stuggles, you at least see the upside of young talent. I dont know.....just a thought.

[Mark Long Beach]

More than just a thought... daresay it: Actual hope?

 

Although our offense sure could be bad.

[Stussy109]

Indy doesnt have start shutdown corners because they can't afford them, a good portion of their money is tied up in the offense In QB, WR and former RB

[Bflojohn]

This is fairly accurate as Marv has begrugingly said that this is, indeed, a rebuilding year. I also think that Marv probably understood the need to eradicate the cancer that permiated this team in 2005. Moulds and Adams were poster children for this dilemma last year. If one looks at this is in positive light, rebuilding can be a benchmark moment for any franchise and is exciting in its own right! The free agency question in 2007 is where I'm banking on the quick turnaround the Bills could make. If you go on the assumption that a majority of the moves in free agency and the draft pan out, (viable improvement, especially second half!), then it's safe to say that fans can feel positive that this team can gain two or three guys in free agency next year, '06, who could push them towards the top.

[OCinBuffalo]

Your defensive backfield assessment is dead on. We keep hearing so much about how our draft sucked from the feather merchants out there that it's clear, to me anyway, that they haven't bothered to try to understand what is actually happening. After all, it's much easier to be a negative parrot than a homer. Hey, every year the Bills don't win the super bowl they end up being right! What balls it must take to be a "realist."

 

According to the feather merchants we should waste high level draft picks on O lineman. Didn't we just get rid of the guy that picked an O lineman as our number one? Why the hell should we repeat mistakes? A good career corner or safety is uncommon in a draft. Elite ones come along every 3-4 years. I think we stole 3 elite d-backs in one draft. How many 3rd and longs did we have last year and couldn't get the D off the field? A ridiculous amount. Is it possible that bad D-backs might have something to do with that? Anyone who actually knows football understands that the OL is about 5 guys working together, not an individual player - they also know that d backs are generally in the opposite situation and therefore are infinitely harder to come by.

 

But, oh yeah, I forgot, Marv is too old to do his job. IF that is the case why the hell did scout.com rate our draft #6? See this Scout.com's Draft results and, Hey, I am right! We did steal this draft - according to them.

 

And, before you start saying:

 

Who the hell is scout.com?

Why should we listen to them?

But, my favorite overpaid, hotel bar genious (place commentator's name here, John Madden is my pick) said we suck. Why should I listen to an independent media outlet?

 

Read this:

Scout.com's Credentials and click on the company milestones.

 

I love that SI, the home of Peter King(all hail), signed scout.com in 2001(so did CBS Sportsline and FOX). That's right: all SI, CBS and FOX parrots can step off NOW. Your favorite talking head gets his talking points from these guys. Moreover, please confirm what you think you know with scout.com before posting any more nonsense facts(they are all over this board). Bad opinions we can tolerate, bad opinions based on bad facts is annoying. Independent = no de facto spinning because their on-air talent, or main sports columnist, end up being wrong(underestimated teams always get spun as surprise! teams around week four). These guys have no agenda, and no dopey Terry Bradshaw egos to contend with. Also, sorry about your ESPN insider account->wasted money.

 

From my experience, real Bills fans stay positive and root for the team, win or lose, and we expect the team to stay positive and play hard, win or lose. As fans, we don't act like Jim Rome(he did such a fine job reporting on the L.A. Rams - especially Jim Everett - that they don't play there anymore. Good Job Jim? WTF!), but we also won't tolerate TO-type nonsense from our players. It's an equation that has worked since long before Kelly came from the Houston Gamblers, and probably long before most of the negative folks were potty trained. We saw the results of screwing with that equation based on what Bullsh!t, I mean Mularkey, did last year.

 

Sorry about being so forceful but it seems some of you need a good trout slapping to wake up and see the plan.

[Ranger Ranchod]

Not re-signing Clements will come back to haunt us. Unless Youbouty really surprises, I don't think McGee has what it takes to be a true #1 CB.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Your defensive backfield assessment is dead on. We keep hearing so much about how our draft sucked from the feather merchants out there that it's clear, to me anyway, that they haven't bothered to try to understand what is actually happening.  After all, it's much easier to be a negative parrot than a homer. Hey, every year the Bills don't win the super bowl they end up being right! What balls it must take to be a "realist."

 

According to the feather merchants we should waste high level draft picks on O lineman. Didn't we just get rid of the guy that picked an O lineman as our number one? Why the hell should we repeat mistakes? A good career corner or safety is uncommon in a draft. Elite ones come along every 3-4 years. I think we stole 3 elite d-backs in one draft. How many 3rd and longs did we have last year and couldn't get the D off the field? A ridiculous amount. Is it possible that bad D-backs might have something to do with that? Anyone who actually knows football understands that the OL is about 5 guys working together, not an individual player - they also know that d backs are generally in the opposite situation and therefore are infinitely harder to come by.

 

But, oh yeah, I forgot, Marv is too old to do his job. IF that is the case why the hell did scout.com rate our draft #6? See this Scout.com's Draft results and, Hey, I am right! We did steal this draft - according to them.

 

And, before you start saying:

 

Who the hell is scout.com?

Why should we listen to them?

But, my favorite overpaid, hotel bar genious (place commentator's name here, John Madden is my pick) said we suck. Why should I listen to an independent media outlet?

 

Read this:

Scout.com's Credentials and click on the company milestones.

 

I love that SI, the home of Peter King(all hail), signed scout.com in 2001(so did CBS Sportsline and FOX). That's right: all SI, CBS and FOX parrots can step off NOW. Your favorite talking head gets his talking points from these guys. Moreover, please confirm what you think you know with scout.com before posting any more nonsense facts(they are all over this board). Bad opinions we can tolerate, bad opinions based on bad facts is annoying. Independent = no de facto spinning because their on-air talent, or main sports columnist, end up being wrong(underestimated teams always get spun as surprise! teams around week four). These guys have no agenda, and no dopey Terry Bradshaw egos to contend with. Also, sorry about your ESPN insider account->wasted money.

 

From my experience, real Bills fans stay positive and root for the team, win or lose, and we expect the team to stay positive and play hard, win or lose. As fans, we don't act like Jim Rome(he did such a fine job reporting on the L.A. Rams - especially Jim Everett - that they don't play there anymore. Good Job Jim? WTF!), but we also won't tolerate TO-type nonsense from our players. It's an equation that has worked since long before Kelly came from the Houston Gamblers, and probably long before most of the negative folks were potty trained. We saw the results of screwing with that equation based on what Bullsh!t, I mean Mularkey, did last year.

 

Sorry about being so forceful but it seems some of you need a good trout slapping to wake up and see the plan.

725179[/snapback]

 

Uh huh. Reality check for you, Mister High-And-Mighty:

 

One need only take a look at sacks alloed over the past 10 years and see what THE glaring weakness on the team has been and continues to be. Wake up and smell the reality: The OL STILL SUCKS.

 

So now we have to hope that our DBs can cover for 10 seconds since our DL also hasn't gotten any better.

 

News flash!! WINNING FOOTBALL STARTS FROM THE INSIDE OUT, NOT THE OUTSIDE IN.

 

I'm of the opinion Marv is tanking this year to get Quinn next year.

 

it's the only rational explanantion for wasting an entire draft on DBs.

[UConn James]

Uh huh. Reality check for you, Mister High-And-Mighty:

 

One need only take a look at sacks alloed over the past 10 years and see what THE glaring weakness on the team has been and continues to be. Wake up and smell the reality: The OL STILL SUCKS.

 

So now we have to hope that our DBs can cover for 10 seconds since our DL also hasn't gotten any better.

 

News flash!! WINNING FOOTBALL STARTS FROM THE INSIDE OUT, NOT THE OUTSIDE IN.

 

I'm of the opinion Marv is tanking this year to get Quinn next year.

 

it's the only rational explanantion for wasting an entire draft on DBs.

725204[/snapback]

 

I remember in my local press that the Patriots OL 'sucked' until Brady stepped in and showed that the problem wasn't the OL, it was the combination of that OL + Bledsoe. Changes have been made to the 3 weakest spots.

 

DL hasn't gotten any better? You mean, the DL featuring one veteran DT who refused to execute his assignment? The DL that added Tripplett and McCargo?

 

Let's see how it works out, Joe. The fact that you're so very pessimistic leads me to unvarnished optimism.

 

I don't want Brady Quinn unless Charlie Weiss comes with him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I remember in my local press that the Patriots OL 'sucked' until Brady stepped in and showed that the problem wasn't the OL, it was the combination of that OL + Bledsoe. Changes have been made to the 3 weakest spots.

 

Sure about that?

 

DL hasn't gotten any better? You mean, the DL featuring one veteran DT who refused to execute his assignment? The DL that added Tripplett and McCargo?

 

Who else on the DL is a threat for double-digit sacks outside of Schoebel?

 

Who's the guy whose big play changes a game for the team on the DL? McCargo?

I'll reserve judgement, thanks.

 

Let's see how it works out, Joe. The fact that you're so very pessimistic leads me to unvarnished optimism.

 

I'm glad I'm now the bellweather for fan sentiment

 

I don't want Brady Quinn unless Charlie Weiss comes with him.

 

 

Yer nuts then.

[Deep2Moulds46]

The key word here is rebuilding. When you rebuild you get younger, and you fill holes.

 

By getting younger, the Bills opened up a lot of holes. No doubt there are serius questions on the defensive line. However, Levy could only fill so many holes this offseason. If they hadn't taken Whitner, and taken Bunkley instead....the question we would all be asking today is who will replace Matt Bowen in 2007? Levy took the players who he felt were the best available at positions of need. In 2007, he will take the same approach, and this roster should be looking very close to his ideal football roster. You have to give a GM 2 offseasons in my mind to overturn a roster. Trying to grade one after part of 1 offseason is ludacris.

[Mikie2times]

Uh huh. Reality check for you, Mister High-And-Mighty:

 

One need only take a look at sacks alloed over the past 10 years and see what THE glaring weakness on the team has been and continues to be. Wake up and smell the reality: The OL STILL SUCKS.

 

So now we have to hope that our DBs can cover for 10 seconds since our DL also hasn't gotten any better.

 

News flash!! WINNING FOOTBALL STARTS FROM THE INSIDE OUT, NOT THE OUTSIDE IN.

 

I'm of the opinion Marv is tanking this year to get Quinn next year.

 

it's the only rational explanantion for wasting an entire draft on DBs.

725204[/snapback]

I LOVE the potential of the secondary, but I’m also disappointed we didn’t do more to improve the line play.

 

What I hope is our front office saw more value in the secondary players this year, and will upgrade the lines when we have more information to work with. We still don't exactly know how our guys will react to this system, and if younger players like Kelsey, Preston, McCargo, and Anderson step up we won't need to bring in nearly as many people. We can also look at our recent FA acquisitions and decide if these guys are better role players or starters. During the off-season we can take the considerable cap room we have, and bring in the people that will help us make our playoff push.

 

Like I said I'm upset we didn’t do more to the lines, and I expect us to struggle once again in that area this year. But before I label Marv an OL neglector I'm going to give him and Jauron one more year to evaluate what we have, and how that fits into the new system.

[Dibs]

Uh huh. Reality check for you, Mister High-And-Mighty:

 

One need only take a look at sacks alloed over the past 10 years and see what THE glaring weakness on the team has been and continues to be. Wake up and smell the reality: The OL STILL SUCKS.

 

So now we have to hope that our DBs can cover for 10 seconds since our DL also hasn't gotten any better.

 

News flash!! WINNING FOOTBALL STARTS FROM THE INSIDE OUT, NOT THE OUTSIDE IN.

 

I'm of the opinion Marv is tanking this year to get Quinn next year.

 

it's the only rational explanantion for wasting an entire draft on DBs.

725204[/snapback]

Firstly let me say that I agree that having good play from the lines is essential to being a good team. I also agree(& who wouldn't) that the o-line & d-line needed a lot of improvement from last year.

 

I contend though that our O-lines sacks allowed over the past 10 years was largely due to poor QB play. I am not saying the O-line was good, I am saying they are not as bad as you state.

Since 1998(sorry, lets look at 8 years)

1998 RJ 6 starts 29 sacks......DF 10 starts 12 sacks

1999 RJ 1 start 1 sack...........DF 15 starts 26 sacks......DB(for NE) 16 starts 55 sacks

2000 RJ 11 starts 49 sacks....DF 5 starts 10 sacks........DB(for NE) 16 starts 45 sacks

2001 RJ 8 starts 31 sacks......AVP 8 starts 14 sacks......DB(for NE) 2 starts 5 sacks

2002 DB 16 starts 54 sacks

2003 DB 16 starts 49 sacks

2004 DB 16 starts 37 sacks

2005 JP 8 starts 26 sacks......KH 8 starts 17 sacks........DB(for Dal) 16 starts 49 sacks

What can we deduce from this perhaps?

When RJ played he got sacked a lot more than the other QBs who were there at the time.

Wherever DB plays, he gets sacked a lot.

JP being essentially a rookie was sacked a lot more than the vet(KH).

 

As someone else said, Brady did not all of a sudden have a much better O-Line. If you remember when P. Manning started as a rookie for the colts, their sack numbers went from awful to awesome.

I deduce that QBs who(for whatever reason) are not good at avoiding being sacked, make their o-lines look worse than what they actually are.

 

Perhaps with the addition of (slightly?) better players(Reyes & Fowler), a QB who feels comfortable in the pocket(a relaxed JP), more experience for the youngsters(Peters & Preston) & an overall better attitude from both players & coaches, the o-line can improve by leaps & bounds.

[Dibs]

.......since our DL also hasn't gotten any better.

 

News flash!! WINNING FOOTBALL STARTS FROM THE INSIDE OUT, NOT THE OUTSIDE IN.

 

I'm of the opinion Marv is tanking this year to get Quinn next year.

 

it's the only rational explanantion for wasting an entire draft on DBs.

725204[/snapback]

Huh?

There are only 4 starters on the D-line.

We have one established good player. We used a 1st round pick on the D-line & signed one of the most valueable D-linemen in FA this year. If the word on Kelsay is true & he was asked to play heavy last year, he might come out & be the player we all hoped for.

Who's the guy whose big play changes a game for the team on the DL? McCargo?

I'll reserve judgement, thanks.

That's all you are asked to do....reserve your judgement.....not caste your judgement before you get to see how things will pan out.

 

"only rational explanation" ????

If you are unable to see other scenarios apart from your own as possible, that is an error on your part...not anyone elses.

Impossible that the o-line is not as bad as it appeared(ala colts pre Manning or Pats pre Brady)?

Impossible that Marv & co. have improved the lines by the additions & methods they have made?

Impossible that the bad play was more due to one or two bad seeds combined with bad coaching/schemes & motivation?

 

I personally do not know how good or bad the lines are. What I do know is that every year teams turn around from being great to rubbish & rubbish to great with only minor(& sometimes no) changes.

[OCinBuffalo]

Uh huh. Reality check for you, Mister High-And-Mighty:

 

One need only take a look at sacks alloed over the past 10 years and see what THE glaring weakness on the team has been and continues to be. Wake up and smell the reality: The OL STILL SUCKS.

 

So now we have to hope that our DBs can cover for 10 seconds since our DL also hasn't gotten any better.

 

News flash!! WINNING FOOTBALL STARTS FROM THE INSIDE OUT, NOT THE OUTSIDE IN.

 

I'm of the opinion Marv is tanking this year to get Quinn next year.

 

it's the only rational explanantion for wasting an entire draft on DBs.

725204[/snapback]

 

Nonsense. Utter nonsense. Well, maybe that works if you coach JV Football:). Were you a pop warner all-star? I guessed it! You're the assistant tight ends coach/chief orange slice provider of your kid's team and now you "know football". This type of thinking provided us with exactly what we got last year, good job. Yeah offensive lineman are the whole game, keep telling yourself that. Yeah, that's why Dibs is wrong, sure. The quaterback play(and the overall offensvie game plan, for that matter) have nothing to do with it, BRAY! Go Frankenstein!!! Your post would be laughable if it wasn't so predictable.

 

Why you are wrong: The Eagles had a good team from the inside out last year. (there are mores examples: Redskins, Chiefs, Bears, and others but let's stick with the Eagles)

 

The Eagles have sick offensive lineman - I know because I see them every week, sometimes in person. Can you tell us what happened, please? Did the o line suddenly start to suck? or have they sucked for years? Did they give up more sacks? It seems clear that they had bad attitudes on that team and a leader who wasn't willing (until halfway through the season) to take corrective action.

 

From what I understand, winning ANYTHING, not just football, starts with good leaders unifying the group towards a common goal. Winning continues with the acceptance of that goal by the group. The leaders must convince the group that the goal and the methods to obtain the goal are solid. Winning ends with the entire group accepting their roles and therefore responsibilities, working together to consistently execute, and solid communication.

 

I know a little about leadership(from starting up and leading a company of now 50+ people, from my coaches(D1 not Pop Warner), teachers, and most importantly my family), since that's exactly what I do for a living, but I am still learning.

I know a lot about winning, and that's all I am gonna say about that.

 

Why don't you explain your Frankenstein, O Line GOOD D Back BAD, points as they relate to the Eagles for us? Perhaps, you are right. More Bullsh!t/Mularkey thinking might be just what this team needs!

 

(By the way, I am just having fun here. If I come off too strong, I apologize. It's only because I would rather be High and Mighty than Low and Silly)

 

GO BILLS!!!!