Why Nance?

[scribo]

Yes, but surely if he showed the sort of potential that everyone is talking about, one team would have locked him up as a 7th rounder or something.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love for him to turn into an all-pro but, like scribo, I find it odd how somebody with so much potential & production went totally undrafted.

When you think about it, it implies that the upside of Aaron Merz our second 7th pick & the 8th last pick in the entire draft is greater than Nance's.  Shouldn't we be talking about him as a potential future star?

725769[/snapback]

Bingo! Thank you, Dibs. A question I asked in the start of this thread was whether so many here would be excited abut Nance if he was drafted in the seventh? It appears most here see Merz as a practice squad guy this year, but as Dibs pointed out, he was apparently seen by the Bills as more valuable than Nance. Maybe this is because several of us had heard of Nance but not of Merz before the draft.

[eball]

I think the simplest answer to your question, scribo, is that the draft remains a very inexact science. After the first day of the draft (round 3), it's a crap shoot as to whether or not the players "make it" in the NFL. Plenty of teams make mistakes in the first 3 rounds as well.

 

You remember, I'm sure, that the draft used to be 12 rounds. Plenty of the higher round draftees made teams. Nowadays, I don't put much stock in the difference between a 4th and a 7th rounder, or a "highly touted but undrafted" free agent. The bottom line is that none of us know how a young kid will react to the NFL, and it depends upon so many factors.

 

I think the Nance kid's chances to make the Bills are limited more by the logjam on the roster at his position than by the fact he went undrafted.

[ganesh]

Yes, but surely if he showed the sort of potential that everyone is talking about, one team would have locked him up as a 7th rounder or something.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love for him to turn into an all-pro but, like scribo, I find it odd how somebody with so much potential & production went totally undrafted.

When you think about it, it implies that the upside of Aaron Merz our second 7th pick & the 8th last pick in the entire draft is greater than Nance's.  Shouldn't we be talking about him as a potential future star?

725769[/snapback]

 

For the same reasons why Jason Peters did not get drafted 2 seasons ago....

 

Sometimes, a player just goes under the radar......and people might just go for

a need pick in the 7th round that they don't pay attention to everythign that

is lying around....Also, his ACL tear might have scared many of the GMs away.

[Beerball]

I saw him at a barbeque, his hands are enormous but his fingers are the size of cocktail franks.  It's freakish, really.  He had trouble holding onto the ribs with those nubs.

725267[/snapback]

Too bad really. Cablehottie was really starting to take a shine to Nance, but the nubby joints will surely turn her off.

[Ramius]

I think the simplest answer to your question, scribo, is that the draft remains a very inexact science.  After the first day of the draft (round 3), it's a crap shoot as to whether or not the players "make it" in the NFL.  Plenty of teams make mistakes in the first 3 rounds as well.

 

You remember, I'm sure, that the draft used to be 12 rounds.  Plenty of the higher round draftees made teams.  Nowadays, I don't put much stock in the difference between a 4th and a 7th rounder, or a "highly touted but undrafted" free agent.  The bottom line is that none of us know how a young kid will react to the NFL, and it depends upon so many factors.

 

I think the Nance kid's chances to make the Bills are limited more by the logjam on the roster at his position than by the fact he went undrafted.

725849[/snapback]

 

Great point eball. If you look at any given draft, after the 100 or so "good" players (1st day picks), there might be a group of 200-300 other players that are all about even in terms of talent. So there will be that many "2nd day" rated players, but only 150 2nd day picks. It stands to reason that a good number of these players wont get drafted, not because of talent, but because of a numbers game.

[Pyrite Gal]

Apparently the "unknown" about Nance is that he actually was "the other man" in a long-term affair with an NFL HC's wife.

 

Apparently, this affair caused the unnamed HC (whom many have dubbed a boy genius forgetting a 5 year tenure in CLE which saw near TD like playoff results) to do a bad job as an HC there and to take then pull a low-character reversal on accepting another HC job and skip off for bigger bucks elsewhere.

 

Go figure. It is amazing what we do not know about off-field behavior which later comes to light and explains seemingly bizarre decisions about on-field stuff.

[Mickey]

Great point eball. If you look at any given draft, after the 100 or so "good" players (1st day picks), there might be a group of 200-300 other players that are all about even in terms of talent. So there will be that many "2nd day" rated players, but only 150 2nd day picks. It stands to reason that a good number of these players wont get drafted, not because of talent, but because of a numbers game.

725918[/snapback]

The fact that Nance wasn't drafted isn't a good sign at all but that fact is not enough to declare it an absolute impossibility that he will ever amount to anything. The Bills signed him and could have signed any number of other undrafted players besides him. They apparently saw something in him. Some may see signing with an NFL team as a UDFA to be proof positive that the player doesn't belong on an NFL roster. I don't really get that. Such a signing means that you have a chance, a chance that legions of other players not so lucky would die for. Respectfully, I just don't see how signing with an NFL team means you have no chance of making an NFL team.

 

It would seem to me to be a reasonable position to take that Nance not having been drafted is not a good sign for his future but that even so, he is on the roster for now, will be in camp and will get his shot. Maybe he will prove that he should have been drafted, maybe he will prove that he shouldn't even have been signed as a UDFA. We will find out soon enough. I don't have a problem with those who think he sucks nor with those who have high hopes that he was a steel.

[Mickey]

Great point eball. If you look at any given draft, after the 100 or so "good" players (1st day picks), there might be a group of 200-300 other players that are all about even in terms of talent. So there will be that many "2nd day" rated players, but only 150 2nd day picks. It stands to reason that a good number of these players wont get drafted, not because of talent, but because of a numbers game.

725918[/snapback]

You just never know until they strap on the pads in the NFL. Plenty of nobodies make it and lots of "can't miss" prospects miss by a mile. When it comes to any particular player, no one really knows for a certainty. This is not even a science let alone an exact one. Maybe Merz will be stepping out of the tunnel at the pro bowl, maybe he'll be selling insurance by Labor Day.

[CosmicBills]

Apparently the "unknown" about Nance is that he actually was "the other man" in a long-term affair with an NFL HC's wife. 

 

Apparently, this affair caused the unnamed HC (whom many have dubbed a boy genius forgetting a 5 year tenure in CLE which saw near TD like playoff results) to do a bad job as an HC there and to take then pull a low-character reversal on accepting another HC job and skip off for bigger bucks elsewhere.

 

Go figure. It is amazing what we do not know about off-field behavior which later comes to light and explains seemingly bizarre decisions about on-field stuff.

725994[/snapback]

 

If Nance was banging BB's wife when he was just 8 years old, then he deserved to be the number one pick overall.

[stuckincincy]

If Nance was banging BB's wife when he was just 8 years old, then he deserved to be the number one pick overall.

726057[/snapback]

 

He would surely have been a most precocious child...

[Ramius]

The fact that Nance wasn't drafted isn't a good sign at all but that fact is not enough to declare it an absolute impossibility that he will ever amount to anything.  The Bills signed him and could have signed any number of other undrafted players besides him.  They apparently saw something in him.  Some may see signing with an NFL team as a UDFA to be proof positive that the player doesn't belong on an NFL roster.  I don't really get that.  Such a signing means that you have a chance, a chance that legions of other players not so lucky would die for.  Respectfully, I just don't see how signing with an NFL team means you have no chance of making an NFL team. 

 

It would seem to me to be a reasonable position to take that Nance not having been drafted is not a good sign for his future but that even so, he is on the roster for now, will be in camp and will get his shot. Maybe he will prove that he should have been drafted, maybe he will prove that he shouldn't even have been signed as a UDFA.  We will find out soon enough.  I don't have a problem with those who think he sucks nor with those who have high hopes that he was a steel.

726017[/snapback]

 

My point was that with such a large pool of players of similar talent, theres not a whole lot fo difference, if any, between a 5th/6th/7th round pick and an UDFA.

[Mickey]

My point was that with such a large pool of players of similar talent, theres not a whole lot fo difference, if any, between a 5th/6th/7th round pick and an UDFA.

726119[/snapback]

You are right, there isn't much difference among them. Buried in there though are usually a few gems.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

The fact that Nance wasn't drafted isn't a good sign at all but that fact is not enough to declare it an absolute impossibility that he will ever amount to anything.  The Bills signed him and could have signed any number of other undrafted players besides him.  They apparently saw something in him.  Some may see signing with an NFL team as a UDFA to be proof positive that the player doesn't belong on an NFL roster.  I don't really get that.  Such a signing means that you have a chance, a chance that legions of other players not so lucky would die for.  Respectfully, I just don't see how signing with an NFL team means you have no chance of making an NFL team. 

 

It would seem to me to be a reasonable position to take that Nance not having been drafted is not a good sign for his future but that even so, he is on the roster for now, will be in camp and will get his shot. Maybe he will prove that he should have been drafted, maybe he will prove that he shouldn't even have been signed as a UDFA.  We will find out soon enough.  I don't have a problem with those who think he sucks nor with those who have high hopes that he was a steel.

Look at George Wilson last year. Nance has as good a shot as anyone to make the roster.

[Pyrite Gal]

He would surely have been a most precocious child...

726114[/snapback]

 

You know what they say big hands are an indicator of.

[eball]

You know what they say big hands are an indicator of.

726178[/snapback]

Big gloves?

[Dibs]

To help punctuate my(& scribo) point I'll ask a question.

Since being picked up by us, has Nance shown in rookie camp, or mini-camp, or anywhere that his potential was badly assessed through the draft? In other words, has he done something which has made people re-evaluate his potential?

 

Peters wasn't lauded when he first joined the Bills. I remember at the time thinking "wow, this guy was slated to go 1st day in the draft(as a TE)" but it wasn't until he started to show his potential that 'the word' started on him.

 

If the answer to the question asked is "no", then surely this 'hype' generated here at TBD is not due to any real logic, just fervant hopes.

Don't misread me....I understand his production in college gives legitimate cause for hope & I fervently hope Nance is going to become a super-star....there is just a realistic destinction between 'hype' & 'hope'.

[NorthWesternBill]

there is just a realistic destinction between 'hype' & 'hope'.

726516[/snapback]

 

I hope that this truth chain-reacts in the form of realization, and the fog that no doubt haunts theese boards may thin out a touch...

[OCinBuffalo]

To help punctuate my(& scribo) point I'll ask a question.

Since being picked up by us, has Nance shown in rookie camp, or mini-camp, or anywhere that his potential was badly assessed through the draft?  In other words, has he done something which has made people re-evaluate his potential?

 

Peters wasn't lauded when he first joined the Bills.  I remember at the time thinking "wow, this guy was slated to go 1st day in the draft(as a TE)" but it wasn't until he started to show his potential that 'the word' started on him.

 

If the answer to the question asked is "no", then surely this 'hype' generated here at TBD is not due to any real logic, just fervant hopes.

Don't misread me....I understand his production in college gives legitimate cause for hope & I fervently hope Nance is going to become a super-star....there is just a realistic destinction between 'hype' & 'hope'.

726516[/snapback]

 

I hate to be repetitive of others as much as I hate people telling me things I already know so I will state what seems to be the stipulated facts regarding Nance:

It has been said that Nance can help us in the red zone - fine.

It has been said that Nance has separation problems - fine.

I saw the same video on Bills.com that you saw, so far seems like he has the character that our new team is/will be about - fine.

It has been said that we have lots of small receivers - fine.

There is more that's been said but you get the idea.

 

Original thought time: Not to start the comparison engine, but hey, doesn't Nance have Randy Moss, TO, etc. characteristics -at least athletically? I think he may help us more on 1st and 10 on our own 30 than he does on 3rd and 5(4 for Holcomb) at our opponents' 15. That is, and should always have been, Willis territory. If Nance's character holds we may have a real steal on our hands.

 

Why?

If it is true that most of the teams we face this year run the same D we propose to(seems to be a trend):

Then we can expect safteys to try and cut off/catch up to balls thrown beyond 15 yards. And, from what I have seen and heard so far, JP(no one else matters) is being asked to smoke balls into tight spots. Doesn't it help us to have a guy to that can bring a 3rd axis - height - to the gameplan since more likely than not he will be 5-6 inches taller than the guys trying(and failing let's hope) to cover him?

 

Won't that get us a great 15 -25 yard pass threat?

 

I can't wait to hear about the offensive line thing again in - to quote LABillzFan - "3...2...1"-->Some Frankenstein guy talkin about non-skill players as though their individual play matters more than how their unit plays as a whole. I also can't wait to hear more of the endless talk about putting a group of individuals together(what we have had since 2001) with FA contracts/the draft, rather than building a Team (what we had prior to TD) that will play hard, because they don't want to let the guy next to them down, and therefore, win.

 

To all that babble I say: "Albequerque!...Snorkel! See, I can do it too".... but seriously, with JPLs mobility and arm strength, can't he run away from pressure and throw spot passes to a guy who can get up and get the ball? The only question I have is: can Nance take a hit? If not, I have just wasted 15 seconds of your life, sorry. If it's any consolation I spent 2 minutes on this one - fair trade? In all honesty I hope that they don't put too much, but just enough, pressure on him during camp/out of the gate. At the same time, I don't want to be reading headlines that say "Nance catches 3 TDs for (random team) in Superbowl" in three years.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!

[Mickey]

To help punctuate my(& scribo) point I'll ask a question.

Since being picked up by us, has Nance shown in rookie camp, or mini-camp, or anywhere that his potential was badly assessed through the draft?  In other words, has he done something which has made people re-evaluate his potential?

 

Peters wasn't lauded when he first joined the Bills.  I remember at the time thinking "wow, this guy was slated to go 1st day in the draft(as a TE)" but it wasn't until he started to show his potential that 'the word' started on him.

 

If the answer to the question asked is "no", then surely this 'hype' generated here at TBD is not due to any real logic, just fervant hopes.

Don't misread me....I understand his production in college gives legitimate cause for hope & I fervently hope Nance is going to become a super-star....there is just a realistic destinction between 'hype' & 'hope'.

726516[/snapback]

 

Every team and every fan hopes to find a gem or two, either late in the draft or in free agency. The "nobody from nowhere" narrative is as emotionally compelling as it is an excellent step towards building a winner. Your cap money can only go so far and when you blow a ton of it on high profile, low performance guys like, oh say, Mike Williams for example, you have to make up for it with some high performance, low profile and low contract players or you are doomed.

 

Thus, every year, as we obsess over every new name on the roster, we are always looking for the guy who will be this year's most likely candidate for the "nobody from nowhere" award. Nance is this year's candidate. Yeah, there is a lot there based on nothing more than hope, and if it is hype, which is just another form of hope, call it hope without reason, then so be it. Seems to me that hope and even hope without reason, is as good a statement as to what it means to be a Bills fan as any.

 

Go Nance, Go Bills.

[Dibs]

Seems to me that hope and even hope without reason, is as good a statement as to what it means to be a Bills fan as any. 

 

Go Nance, Go Bills.

726552[/snapback]