scribo Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I've read in a couple of places that he was the year's highest rated UDFA. Yes, Ben Rottenburger said some nice things about him. Yes, he is big, and that is an obvious need for our WR corps. Yes, it seems he did well in the OTAs. But if he is so good, why didn't he get drafted? I really doubt so many of us would be as excited about him if the Bills actually drafted him in the seventh round. If that was the case, I think most here would be predicting a spot on the practice squad for him. That is the real basis for this post. I understand Peters, Fletcher and Moorman are just a few who made it into starting lineups despite being overlooked completely in the draft, but what is it about Martin Nance that has a lot of you thinking he has a chance to join that group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I've read in a couple of places that he was the year's highest rated UDFA. Yes, Ben Rottenburger said some nice things about him. 724653[/snapback] And if there's any judgement one should trust, it's Roethlisberger's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Here's what I dug up. Hope it helps answer your questions. Positives: Ideal combination of size and speed, Martin Nance has a tall frame with good hands. He is a precise route runner and always a big play threat downfield. Nance is an amazing athlete with great ability to make the catch in traffic. He has a lot of potential that has yet to be utilized. Negatives: Nance has yet to be truly effective without Ben Roethlisberger at the helm. He is coming off a torn ACL injury that kept him out all of 2004. Nance has decent speed, but doesn’t have a good burst off the line and won’t be able to fake out many NFL defenders. Overview: Martin Nance looked like a first-round prospect his sophomore year, but because of injury and offensive woes for Miami of Ohio, Nance’s stock has fallen quite a bit. He has all the skills that can’t be taught such as size and speed, but needs to get a better grasp on the intangibles of the position. With the right coaching, Nance could become a very effective receiver at the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Larry Nance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWesternBill Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Here's what I dug up. Hope it helps answer your questions. Negatives: Nance has yet to be truly effective without Ben Roethlisberger at the helm. He is coming off a torn ACL injury that kept him out all of 2004. Nance has decent speed, but doesn’t have a good burst off the line and won’t be able to fake out many NFL defenders. 724683[/snapback] not true, this must have been written before the 2005 season where he caught 14 TD passes from josh betts.. which is the record for miami(ohio) ....also racked up over 1100 yards.. so id say he proved to be effective without big ben. Def could end up being real good who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bflojohn Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 This guy has absolutely HUGE hands! If anyone here gets the Ourlads report, they had hand size in their guide, and his were the biggest measured for a WR at the combine. I started looking at this "stat" for other positions, and his were comparible to OL's and DL's hands, for size!! They described his hands as soft "catchers mitt" type hands and that he very rarely drops a pass. The reports out of the OTA's are saying EXACTLY THAT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 This guy has absolutely HUGE hands! If anyone here gets the Ourlads report, they had hand size in their guide, and his were the biggest measured for a WR at the combine. I started looking at this "stat" for other positions, and his were comparible to OL's and DL's hands, for size!! They described his hands as soft "catchers mitt" type hands and that he very rarely drops a pass. The reports out of the OTA's are saying EXACTLY THAT!! Parrot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Parrot! 725186[/snapback] I was thinking the SAME THING. Remember, you're a birb-brained, beaked *Sqwawk* Parrot if you consider or trust anything you haven't witnessed personaly... especially about Martin Nance. That all being said, now I'm really interested in hearing reports from training camp about this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 OK, despite his freakish hands and good 2005 season, he wasn't drafted. I still cannot figure out why. Is this just because he missed 2004 with a ripped up ACL? That doesn't sound logical to me considering his last year. OK, I understand he had a less-than-stellar combine workout. But he still was rated as high as the #4 WR on some Web sites the day before the draft. Is it just an anomaly that he didn't get drafted? Is he in the early lead for "biggest UDFA steal of the year"? That sure would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 One other thing: There were 32 WRs who were drated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 One other thing: There were 32 WRs who were drated. 725235[/snapback] 32 WR is what every draft expert called one of the weakest classes at the position in years. Makes you wonder even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Sounds like he would've been a 3rd round pick if NBA execs were doing the drafting. NFL GM's aren't as big on "upside" and probably rightfully so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 This guy has absolutely HUGE hands! If anyone here gets the Ourlads report, they had hand size in their guide, and his were the biggest measured for a WR at the combine. I saw him at a barbeque, his hands are enormous but his fingers are the size of cocktail franks. It's freakish, really. He had trouble holding onto the ribs with those nubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 OK, despite his freakish hands and good 2005 season, he wasn't drafted. I still cannot figure out why. Is this just because he missed 2004 with a ripped up ACL? That doesn't sound logical to me considering his last year. OK, I understand he had a less-than-stellar combine workout. But he still was rated as high as the #4 WR on some Web sites the day before the draft. Is it just an anomaly that he didn't get drafted? Is he in the early lead for "biggest UDFA steal of the year"? That sure would be nice. 725220[/snapback] When something like this happens, I have to wonder if some behind the scenes rumor made the rounds that killed his chances of getting drafted. Maybe a rumor about drugs or an injury that never healed. I see no reason to lose any sleep over why he wasn't drafted. If it was because he is simply no good, who cares? He didn't cost us a pick. If it turns out that he is one of those real talents who slipped through the cracks, then good for us and shame on the teams that passed him up. I have seen plenty of guys come and go who had unbelievable numbers that just never translated to on-the-field performance. Anyone remember Dan Brandenburg? A LB from goodness knows where who was big, strong and had a 40 time most WR's would envy. He hung around for a year or two but never made it as a starter. It happens. Nance is a very intriguing prospect, the kind of player really that Marv was always pretty sharp at spotting. Not future pro bowlers mind you but guys who could produce way beyond expectations and who really fleshed out the roster. Hopefully that will be the case with Nance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 OK, despite his freakish hands and good 2005 season, he wasn't drafted. I still cannot figure out why. Is this just because he missed 2004 with a ripped up ACL? That doesn't sound logical to me considering his last year. OK, I understand he had a less-than-stellar combine workout. But he still was rated as high as the #4 WR on some Web sites the day before the draft. Is it just an anomaly that he didn't get drafted? Is he in the early lead for "biggest UDFA steal of the year"? That sure would be nice. 725220[/snapback] One of the other things which has happened in a few drafts is a "lemming" like aspect of GMs and the secretive/deceptive nature of the draft. A player will not be selected when he is expected to be selected and other GMs will begin to wonder what they do not know about a player that other folks might know. A player may not be selected at a point when he should be taken or when another player at the same position is taken and the choice defies easy explanation to other GMs beyond the possibility that there is some injury they do not know about. When the player comes up next as a potential selection and the GM has a choice between filling a need at one position or taking the player who dropped, he then has a choice but gets scared off by the unknown. Now having been passed by twice "or more" the lemming mrentatuility is on and additional GMs begin to wonder what they don't know that others know. Eventually, a player drops so much he becomes such a value pick that someone takes the risk. However, if the player is projected as a second day guy anyway, the player may simply slip through the draft. Who knmows? This market effect is one of the interesting things about the draft. My sense of this case is: 1. Despite great product with RoboQB, the ACL injury pushed Nance to the second day of the draft in any case. His nice recovery made him pickable but the injury fear pushed him down. 2. His great features in some regards but not others actually hurt his draft prospects. By definition (height and size of hands) he was a mutant. However, as teams switched more heavily into "beast player available" picks as the draft wore on, more well rounded players were more attractive selections than mutant prospects. 3. Weakness of the WR class hurt him. Teams with WR needs looked to FA and other sources to fill this need as this draft class of WRs looked weak. There simply were not many buyers left looking for a WR from this draft as the market was going to be thin. 4. There was a question of how much coaching would help. Nance already ran good routes and seemed to get what he he was going to get in terms of huge gains out of good coaching. He also may well have produced well in college due to his height and large hands and no team was gonna improve this with NFL coaching. Folks may have liked what they saw in college but saw little upside to be gained beyond his past avchievement through their coaching. Every college player needs to improve a lot over their current game to be good pros. 5 The success of RoboQB may have hurt him. Just as Losman looked impressive and one of his selling points was his production behind a bad line and folks having hopes he would do better behind a good lOL (aa situation he has yet to see unfortunately). Nance probably got downgraded even with the QB switch for being thrown to by the first first round QB choice to deliver an SB win to the team which drafted him since Dallas chose Aikamn in 89. 6. Overthinking and over-analysis by folks interested in the draft can produce some weird rationales. This very post you are reading is clear evidence of it. I really have to leave myself a note to get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 6. Overthinking and over-analysis by folks interested in the draft can produce some weird rationales. This very post you are reading is clear evidence of it. I really have to leave myself a note to get a life. 725325[/snapback] Good stuff. Don't get down on yourself, you have a rep to hold up as the longest poster on the Wall. I understand the "lemming" phenomenon, I understand he had a Superbowl-winning QB throwing to him in college, and I understand a lot of teams were far from excited about this past draft's WR crop. But Nance proved the ACL was at least OK, Ben Rottenburger wasn't pitching for Miami (Ohio) in 2005, and as I stated a little earlier, 32 other WRs were taken, and eight of those 32 were taken in the 7th round, so teams were still looking for receivers until the end. The biggest negative I have found on Nance is that some scouts have questioned whether he is "quick" enough to get off the line cleanly. I could see that be a big issue in the transition for a WR moving from NCAA to NFL play. Lastly, I am not losing any sleep. I just noticed there seems to be a good number of posters here who are excited about Nance, and I was wondering if those people had a reason in mind about why he wasn't worth drafting but is potentially worth a roster spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenews Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 "Nance has decent speed, but doesn’t have a good burst off the line and won’t be able to fake out many NFL defenders." If you can't get open...them your just taking up space. Unless he puts on about 100 pounds and plays LT, I don't see him making the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I've read in a couple of places that he was the year's highest rated UDFA. Yes, Ben Rottenburger said some nice things about him. Yes, he is big, and that is an obvious need for our WR corps. Yes, it seems he did well in the OTAs. But if he is so good, why didn't he get drafted? I really doubt so many of us would be as excited about him if the Bills actually drafted him in the seventh round. If that was the case, I think most here would be predicting a spot on the practice squad for him. That is the real basis for this post. I understand Peters, Fletcher and Moorman are just a few who made it into starting lineups despite being overlooked completely in the draft, but what is it about Martin Nance that has a lot of you thinking he has a chance to join that group? 724653[/snapback] I'm glad they picked him up. Sure, there are reasons why he wasn't drafted, but as you note - the NFL is dotted with this or that undrafted player who did well. The Bills seem to have caught a bit of luck with Peters. Perhaps same with Nance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I'm sure Tolbert will be working with him to develop more "suddenness" in his moves so he can gain some separation. However, working in his favor is the new league policy on enforcing interference calls. Nance is big enough that he should not have too much of a problem with CBs jamming him at the LOS. Once he gets past the line he's got an advantage against most CB just being as tall as he is, combined with his great hands. He's going to outreach most CBs, and once he's got the ball, he's got it. The combination could be really dangerous in the red zone and the end zone wtih fade routes and high thrown balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Sounds like he would've been a 3rd round pick if NBA execs were doing the drafting. NFL GM's aren't as big on "upside" and probably rightfully so. 725244[/snapback] Yes, but surely if he showed the sort of potential that everyone is talking about, one team would have locked him up as a 7th rounder or something. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for him to turn into an all-pro but, like scribo, I find it odd how somebody with so much potential & production went totally undrafted. When you think about it, it implies that the upside of Aaron Merz our second 7th pick & the 8th last pick in the entire draft is greater than Nance's. Shouldn't we be talking about him as a potential future star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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