Bill from NYC Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 If Leinart is the weak-armed QB that you suggest he is, I would assume Arizona is the best place for him. Dry, warm air, a semi-enclosed stadium, two receivers in Boldin and Fitzgerald who can make a QB look good, and a horse RB who has proven he can get the job done. It may not work out long-term, but like I said, those moves equal $$$. The Cards hope that in the future the moves equal wins, but in the meantime, they'll settle for $$$. Besides, Denny Green may choose to play Kurt Warner over Leinart. He sat Culpepper for a full season when Daunte was a rookie in Minnesota. 724897[/snapback] I don't doubt that these moves will sell tickets. I do however cling to the claim that this is idiocy in terms of building a winning football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Yeah, the Cards' moves created hype which sold tix. Whether it translates to winning games and CONTINUING to sell tix remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Believe it or not (and somebody feel free to call me on this because I'm not positive) I think the Arizona Cardinals are sold out via 100% capacity season ticket sales. Leinart + Edge + Sweet new stadium = $$$ 724879[/snapback] Yeah, I had to actually do work and go away from the computer a minute. But yeah, Arizona is 100% sold out too. So, that I know of.....and I'm about 90% sure about all of these teams.......they are all sold out with season ticket holders....... New England NY Jets Pittsburgh Baltimore Denver Kansas City Houston Philly Washington NY Giants Chicago Green Bay Seattle Arizona St. Louis I'm pretty sure all of those teams have waiting lists. The following teams I'm pretty positive have waiting lists also or are within about 5,000 season ticket holders of having them..... Cincy (they are very close if not already there), Indy (First time last season since they moved there, so I would imagine they are completely sold out again), Tennessee (I think they are completely sold out...I know they used to be, but they have been bad the last couple of years), Dallas (No idea, but I bet they are), Minnesota (Believe it or not, they used to have the longest list, so they have to still be close), Atlanta (I'm pretty sure they have been at capacity for like 3 seasons now with season ticket holders). So, we are pretty low in terms of season ticket holder numbers, if not the lowest now the Cardinals are the hottest thing in Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 game cost can be done cheap if you want to go to a game . pack of dogs outside with some chips a few beer or soda from home . buy nothing inside or a water or 1 soda or 1 beer . you do not have to spend a lot of money . i on the other hand like to drive out early sat. and stay till monday . gas $ 130 marriot about $160 for 2 nights (priceline) eating out $200 wine and beer for the room and parking lot $50 snacks for parking lot $25 tickets (season) 2 tickets per game rounded off $100 parking lot $15 trip to slots machines about $100 (sometimes we get lucky) total about $680 (not counting slots ) sometimes we spend less and some times more , opener has gone to a 3 night stay . have about 4 plus hr drive oneway and try to make 5 to 8 games per year . some people I know drive out and back in one day and i have done that .so you can spend a lot or a little . it is up to you . just go to a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I'm just saying that its absolutely ridiculous to have a franchise like the Bills in their own back yards, and so many people will balk at the cost, etc...those will be the first people to be up in arms when Ralph takes the franchise elsewhere. 724784[/snapback] Have you lived in Buffalo? That seems to be the general mindset of the majority there. Let someone else foot the bill so I can watch it for free on TV. Then B word and moan when it doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udonkey Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Have you lived in Buffalo? That seems to be the general mindset of the majority there. Let someone else foot the bill so I can watch it for free on TV. Then B word and moan when it doesn't happen. 724954[/snapback] I never have, but I've requested a transfer from work more than once...it just hasn't happened yet. Still might. If and when I do, you can bet your ass I'll be there 10 home games a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Have you lived in Buffalo? That seems to be the general mindset of the majority there. Let someone else foot the bill so I can watch it for free on TV. Then B word and moan when it doesn't happen. Or B word and moan what a bad owner Ralph is, when he's kept the Bills in a depressed market all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 It's called escapism. 724696[/snapback] Lot 1 Pole 5...............jello shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Too bad we couldn't combine Toronto and Buffalo. Toronto is on fire with economic activity and is the economic engine of Canada. 5+ million people there and the suburbs/Southern Ontario. In terms of sell-outs a lot depends on stadium size as well. You could reduce The Ralph to about 60-62k and there would definitely be a sell-out each week without question. With 47k season ticket holders and only a stadium of 60k the Bills could already say there games are sold out. So you have to consider the size. We have the 6th largest capacity in the NFL so that plays a very big factor in to "already being sold out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Too bad we couldn't combine Toronto and Buffalo. Toronto is on fire with economic activity and is the economic engine of Canada. 5+ million people there and the suburbs/Southern Ontario. In terms of sell-outs a lot depends on stadium size as well. You could reduce The Ralph to about 60-62k and there would definitely be a sell-out each week without question. With 47k season ticket holders and only a stadium of 60k the Bills could already say there games are sold out. So you have to consider the size. We have the 6th largest capacity in the NFL so that plays a very big factor in to "already being sold out." 725086[/snapback] Build a new stadium in Niagara Falls (USA) and you might be on to something. The Buffalo-Toronto Bills! Gets the NFL into another market and another country. No more small market team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Build a new stadium in Niagara Falls (USA) and you might be on to something. The Buffalo-Toronto Bills! Gets the NFL into another market and another country. No more small market team. 725092[/snapback] How about a logo with a Buffalo wearing a loin cloth shaped like a Maple leaf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 It's called escapism. 724696[/snapback] I need an escape from this escapism. Watching the Bills these past 5 years has taken more out of me than my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 You're making the assumption that sports ticket sales are related to a local economy's success. Raleigh couldn't sell out Stanley Cup Final games - yet everyone in Buffalo would kill to have an economy as thriving as Raleigh's. And make no bones about it, the economy in Buffalo is crap. Good point. Ticket sales are not necessarily related to the local economic picture. But a closer look reveals that it's no secret why the sales are so good. The weak economy may be at play here. The Bills policy of selling "extra" tickets to season ticket holders before single game tickets are available to the public is driving the strong sales as entreprenuerial Bills "fans" are scarfing up tickets. These will be hocked on Ebay and stubhub to real fans of other teams who wish to see their team play, but cannot afford a ticket in their own cities. New England is a prime example, as our stadium is routinely 50-60% Patsies fans for our home games. Sure, some of these tickets will be bought by Bills fans who for one reason or another are not season ticket holders, but attend a few games a year. It is a pathetic indictment of Buffalonians in general, always looking to make a quick buck. They'd even sell a ticket to a Patsy fan to do it. We may have had the best fans in football at one time, but that time has long since passed. We're average to below average at best now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Too bad we couldn't combine Toronto and Buffalo. Toronto is on fire with economic activity and is the economic engine of Canada. 5+ million people there and the suburbs/Southern Ontario. In terms of sell-outs a lot depends on stadium size as well. You could reduce The Ralph to about 60-62k and there would definitely be a sell-out each week without question. With 47k season ticket holders and only a stadium of 60k the Bills could already say there games are sold out. So you have to consider the size. We have the 6th largest capacity in the NFL so that plays a very big factor in to "already being sold out." 725086[/snapback] I think that's what explains the uptick for the most patr--more and more Canadians have been buying Bills tickets. On the other hand, I sold my house six months ago for nearly double what I bought it at in 1997, so maybe something is happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Baltimore 724910[/snapback] Baltimore actually sells about 2000 non-season tickets to each game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Have you lived in Buffalo? That seems to be the general mindset of the majority there. Let someone else foot the bill so I can watch it for free on TV. Then B word and moan when it doesn't happen. 724954[/snapback] Boy, the way you B word and moan about this mindset makes you sound like you would fit in perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Boy, the way you B word and moan about this mindset makes you sound like you would fit in perfectly. 725167[/snapback] So you haven't lived in Buffalo. BTW, didn't realize ONE post stating the truth was bitching and moaning. FYI, I'm one of those who travels half way across the country to help sell the place out so those who want to watch it on TV in Buffalo have that choice. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 So you haven't lived in Buffalo. BTW, didn't realize ONE post stating the truth was bitching and moaning. FYI, I'm one of those who travels half way across the country to help sell the place out so those who want to watch it on TV in Buffalo have that choice. Try again. 725323[/snapback] I guess this reply from you constitutes you bitching and moaning about the Buffalo mindset in a second post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 FYI the following article regarding the Buffalo economy (I will post it here as the Buffalo News in its pecuniary wisdom does not allow people to link to its articles after 10 days or so). The article is interesting to this economic point for several reasons: 1. His comments about folks in this area having a dichotomous commitment to both liberal politics and consevative values is true. This is not unusual though as institutions like the Catholic Church for example both oppose President Bush generally on immigration issues and particularly the border security approach but also support him fully in his veto of the stem cell bill where his approach seems to run counter to 70% of Americans in polls and conservatives such as Orrin Hatch. 2. He does not the typical rants against NYS tax rates, though his personal complaints really get reduced to blather as he regularly seems to blow and give away amounts of $ which exceed the extra tax hit specifically noted on things from charitable institutions to personal items and kitsch. (He recently held a yard sale at his home where one could buy some fairly pricey upholstered chairs for as little as $5. They had about 50 of them and they probably came from one of his clubs- They were a great deal if you did not mind sitting on something in your living room that had seen lots of lap dancing). 3. The idea of this being a hugely depressed area does not correspond in some ways with is having bought the home for a million a couple of years ago and is now looking to flip it for $2.95 million. He clearly is not the norm for ecomic activity. However, he has not added $2 million bucks to the value of the property throgu hspucing it up and adding a large garage. The run-up in the value he is asking for the house seems like an optimistic assessment, but is not inconsistent with a huge run up in the price of homes in the area and in sections of the City (there is little demand in low-income sections of the community where one can still bus a home for less than the cost of a middlin car, but the market is hopping downtown and in better neighborhoods and this location-location-location aspect indicates that many folks still want to come to this depressed economy). 4. It also is notable that despite the wailing about poor folks benefitting from a welfare mode that drives taxes, his primary complaint that has him leaving is with the landed gentry in Buffalo who simply do not "play well together" with new folks in town. Folks need to remember when they are wailing about the welfare state that the simple fact is that poor folks are not rich. If one wants to whine and B word about poor folks driving NYS to ruin, actually it is the rich folks that are making outlandish profits off of providing welfare thatreally are the root of the problem Flamboyant booster bids Buffalo bye-bye Snowden feels rejected because of strip clubs and stunned by tax bills By ROBERT J. McCARTHY News Political Reporter 7/19/2006 Buffalo News file photo "They're so liberal here in their politics, but in social mores, they're very, very conservative...I consider it hypocritical." Richard A. Snowden, owner Rick's Tally-Ho, at his Nottingham Terrace home After moving here from Las Vegas two years ago, Richard A. Snowden hit Buffalo in a big way. He purchased the fabled Miller Mansion near Delaware Park and sank hundreds of thousands of dollars into the showcase home he opened for a slew of community fundraisers. He joined boards and civic organizations, and explored running for office - first Congress, then the State Senate, and finally county executive. He told anyone who would listen that his business background could go a long way toward relieving the region's economic doldrums. But that same background produced a classic case of unrequited love. The owner of Rick's Tally-Ho - a strip club he calls a "gentleman's cabaret" - has put his mansion and his businesses up for sale. He will return to Las Vegas after being rejected by a town he says can't get past the way he makes his living. "They're so liberal here in their politics, but in social mores, they're very, very conservative," Snowden said. "In many respects, frankly, I consider it hypocritical." Combined with a tax burden he finds overwhelming, Snowden is ending his dalliance with Buffalo. The stately home on Nottingham Terrace with its signature front lawn fountain is on the market for $2.95 million, and his Tally-Ho clubs on Genesee Street in Cheektowaga and in Rochester and Florida are for sale, too. Snowden, 55, said he and his wife, Danielle, still love the area. But even raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for charitable and cultural institutions ranging from Shea's Performing Arts Center to the Buffalo Zoo could not erase his strip clubs' stigma. "I don't mean to be critical, but I've lived in a lot of progressive areas like northern Virginia and Las Vegas, where there's lots of growth," he said. "There's too parochial a view here. People really want the same old, same old in their politics and the way things are done." A Hornell native and Republican who unsuccessfully challenged then-Rep. Stan Lundine, a Jamestown Democrat, back in 1976, Snowden said that the state's high taxes shocked him upon his return. He said he paid $7,800 in property taxes on the Las Vegas home he sold for $1.2 million, but shells out $35,000 on the mansion he bought for approximately $1 million in 2002. Snowden went so far as to retain veteran City Hall figure Tony Farina as a political consultant and even discussed a countywide poll with Utica pollster John Zogby in preparation for a county executive campaign next year. But he said he discovered that only a handful of families control the political process. "They would never allow anyone with a different life experience to have a seat at the table," he said. Erie County Republican Chairman James P. Domagalski said he would not make any judgment on Snowden or anyone else, and that Snowden never came near to announcing a candidacy. But he noted that Snowden is engaged "in a business that certainly is a factor in the minds of a lot of voters." "He has a passion for politics and public service. He's also in a business that would be looked at carefully by the voters," Domagalski said. "And I think he understands that." Others in the community are sad about losing Snowden's charitable efforts. William H. Seiner, executive director of the Buffalo and Erie County Historical Society, said he was "astonished" that Snowden decided to leave. He noted Snowden opened his home to several daylong events and elegant dinners that benefited the Historical Society and other institutions such as the Buffalo Zoo. He served on the Historical Society board and helped raise $30,000 when culturals saw their public funding cut in the midst of last year's county budget crisis. Seiner said he never had any problem accepting Snowden's largess in the same way that merchants selling cars or groceries accepted his money. "He runs a legal business and tries to do good things with his money," Seiner said, adding he never fielded a single complaint about accepting contributions from a strip club proprietor. Snowden says he now wants to retire from his profession of 27 years and may dabble in fine arts and antiques upon his return to Nevada. He hopes someone of the stature of Buffalo Sabres owner B. Thomas Golisano might be interested in the manse he rechristened "Nottingham." "We took a castle and were able to put it in as good a shape as when it was built. It was a real thrill," he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I guess this reply from you constitutes you bitching and moaning about the Buffalo mindset in a second post. 725329[/snapback] No, just bitching about your unprovoked attack without at least any insightful information to add. Didn't mean to hit a sore spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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