MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 I didn't think the Bears were this stupid, but apparently they are. The Dols get Marty Booker and a 3rd rounder in 2005.
Simon Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 I didn't think the Bears were this stupid, but apparently they are. Stupid? They just picked up an All-Pro caliber DE who hasn't even reached his potential yet and it only cost them a declining receiver and a Day2 pick. That's borderline larceny.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 22, 2004 Author Posted August 22, 2004 Stupid? They just picked up an All-Pro caliber DE who hasn't even reached his potential yet and it only cost them a declining receiver and a Day2 pick.That's borderline larceny. 3125[/snapback] Hold on there Simon. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with DCM about Ogunleye being made to look better than he is, thanks to playing next to Taylor, Bowens, and Chester, who suck up a lot of attention. That doesn't mean Ogun isn't a good player (I'd take him on the Bills, but not at what he's demanding to be paid), but without those guys (and he doesn't have anyone anywhere near the caliber of them on the Bears), he's a better-than-average DE who is grossly overpaid. And as for Booker, I don't know if I'd call a 28-year old WR who has played with some bad QB's the past few years (and will again this year) "declining," although I question the wisdom of adding a WR when RB is their main need. And a 3rd round pick is a day 1 pick, and could be a high 3rd rounder if the Bears suck as bad as they're expected to, even with Ogunleye.
d_wag Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 so i guess this means schobel's asking price just went up....... don't say i didn't warn you boys........
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 22, 2004 Author Posted August 22, 2004 so i guess this means schobel's asking price just went up....... don't say i didn't warn you boys........ 3234[/snapback] It went up $1M in bonus. Still WAY overpaid even at $14M, so it means nothing in actuality.
d_wag Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 i see.......your of the opinion we should let him go even if he puts up a huge season......i'd rather keep a good young player on the roster.....
sweet baboo Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 crap...what does this mean for booker? he's one of my starting WRs on my fantasy team he goes from #1 on chicago to #2 in miami?
BB2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 The signing bonus is a bit overboard but living in Chicago this was almost a no-brainer. Chicago got itself the better deal, even if they coughed up a third rounder
d_wag Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 The signing bonus is a bit overboard but living in Chicago this was almost a no-brainer. Chicago got itself the better deal, even if they coughed up a third rounder 3307[/snapback] i agree......it will take booker half the season (at least) to get up to speed in a new offense.......would have been much easier to work a new RB in..... 3rd round pick does nothing for THIS SEASON.......really shows they !@#$ed up by not getting this done before the draft, when they could have used any picks gained to take players that could have made an immediate contribution..... if they move that 3rd rounder for james jackson (as rumoured), at least they're not waiting a year to cash in on it, but they'd still be over-paying......
sweet baboo Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 thinking about it, the trade makes no sense for miami...what they really needed was a runningback and anthony thomas is riding the bench...what the balls did they get a WR for when they can't run to set up the pass and they have no one to throw the ball?????
Ray Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 15M for that guy??? Do you think Schobel is worth a 15M bonus??? He has similar numbers. Wow is that a lot for an average DE who can get some sacks.
d_wag Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 15M for that guy??? Do you think Schobel is worth a 15M bonus??? He has similar numbers. Wow is that a lot for an average DE who can get some sacks. 3445[/snapback] i could really care less about the bonus money........schobel is young and will be here for the bulk of the contract........my concern is the overall value of the deal, and that just went up thanks to wale's 6 mil/year contract........ before this deal, schobel would have signed for 5 mil/year.......now he's probably gunning for the same deal as wale.........
DCM Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Hold on there Simon. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with DCM about Ogunleye being made to look better than he is, thanks to playing next to Taylor, Bowens, and Chester, who suck up a lot of attention. That doesn't mean Ogun isn't a good player (I'd take him on the Bills, but not at what he's demanding to be paid), but without those guys (and he doesn't have anyone anywhere near the caliber of them on the Bears), he's a better-than-average DE who is grossly overpaid. And as for Booker, I don't know if I'd call a 28-year old WR who has played with some bad QB's the past few years (and will again this year) "declining," although I question the wisdom of adding a WR when RB is their main need. And a 3rd round pick is a day 1 pick, and could be a high 3rd rounder if the Bears suck as bad as they're expected to, even with Ogunleye. 3155[/snapback] It's okay to agree w/ me....you can believe it. As to why the Fins got a starting wide receiver instead of a RB....it seems Rick Spielman did not want to overpay for a mediocre running back and Booker was the better value....Booker has made the pro bowl I believe, how many pro bowl running backs are currently available at the price Spielman paid to get Booker AND a 1st day pick? Consider O-Gun has not been to 1 practice and has always said he would sit out the 1st 10 games and refused to sign his tender offer.... as for not making this deal BEFORE the draft.....David Boston AND Ricky Williams were both a part of the plan for the 2004 Fins BEFORE the draft.....
Simon Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with DCM about Ogunleye being made to look better than he is, thanks to playing next to Taylor, Bowens, and Chester, who suck up a lot of attention. Then ask yourself why doesn't Denney look better than he is because he's playing next to Schobel and the very best DT combo in the NFL? Because Denney is a stiff while Ogunleye is a real player who looks good on his own merit. He'd look good playing next to Bannan and Edwards because he's a complete player who brings it every down and continues to get better every time I see him. Another big difference in this trade is the positions they play. You turn over a rock and you're likely to see a bunch of #2 wide-outs like Booker scurrying about. But good DE's like Ogunleye are rare treasures simply because there's so few of them which makes them far more valuable. Finally look at the direction their careers are heading. Booker's game and numbers are steadily declining as he closes in on 30. On the other hand Ogunleye doesn't have a lot of mileage and has continued to rapidly improve as he gains NFL experience. So while Chicago gets a young premier hard-to-find DefensiveEnd, miami gets a dime/dozen receiver and a pick that will probably net a Crowell, Wire, Ron Edwards or Corey Moore. No matter how you slice it, it was a terribly lopsided deal and miami has been burned by theri insistence on chucking big money at prissy prancing showponies like Taylor while refusing to pay market value to a dominant valuable player like Ogunleye. I'm thrilled to death that the Bills won't have to see that sumbitch again anytime soon. Cya
DCM Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Then ask yourself why doesn't Denney look better than he is because he's playing next to Schobel and the very best DT combo in the NFL? Because Denney is a stiff while Ogunleye is a real player who looks good on his own merit. He'd look good playing next to Bannan and Edwards because he's a complete player who brings it every down and continues to get better every time I see him.Another big difference in this trade is the positions they play. You turn over a rock and you're likely to see a bunch of #2 wide-outs like Booker scurrying about. But good DE's like Ogunleye are rare treasures simply because there's so few of them which makes them far more valuable. Finally look at the direction their careers are heading. Booker's game and numbers are steadily declining as he closes in on 30. On the other hand Ogunleye doesn't have a lot of mileage and has continued to rapidly improve as he gains NFL experience. So while Chicago gets a young premier hard-to-find DefensiveEnd, miami gets a dime/dozen receiver and a pick that will probably net a Crowell, Wire, Ron Edwards or Corey Moore. No matter how you slice it, it was a terribly lopsided deal and miami has been burned by theri insistence on chucking big money at prissy prancing showponies like Taylor while refusing to pay market value to a dominant valuable player like Ogunleye. I'm thrilled to death that the Bills won't have to see that sumbitch again anytime soon. Cya 3562[/snapback] Simon..... Schobel is not in the same class as Jason Taylor.....as for Denney being a stiff, no argument there, but Denney probably would benefit from playing opposite JT. O-Gun would not have led the AFC in sacks playing on the Bills defense last year....So you agree w/the Bears giving O-Gun 15 million in gauranteed money? Don't forget this guy was an undrafted free agent because of the severity of his knee injury at Indiana..... lopsided deal? Not if you consider O-Gun has adamantly stated that he was going to sit out the first 10 games... If O-Gun is so damn precious.....then why so little interest from other NFL teams? Why is he not in a Bills uniform? Not enough #2 wide outs to give as compensation?
The Jokeman Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 If O-Gun is so damn precious.....then why so little interest from other NFL teams? Why is he not in a Bills uniform? Not enough #2 wide outs to give as compensation? 3575[/snapback] He was a restricted free agent and the Dolphins slapped him with a qualifying offer that would have cost any team a 1st and 3rd to sign him. If he was on the open market he would have been heavily pursued. Now with the free agent market all but over teams are strapped against the cap that they likely could not afford to get him this late into the offseason. O-Gun will definately help the Bears defense, which has lacked a quality pass rusher for years. Though at the same time they gave away their best offensive player in Booker to get him.
JAMIEBUF12 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 15M for that guy??? Do you think Schobel is worth a 15M bonus??? He has similar numbers. Wow is that a lot for an average DE who can get some sacks. 3445[/snapback] how does schoebel have simular numbers? his best season is 10.5 sacks,ogunleye had 15 last year!he was the afc sack leader last year,i am just glad he is out of the afc east.go bills in'04
Simon Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Schobel is not in the same class as Jason Taylor.......Denney probably would benefit from playing opposite JT lmao, sorry but that one will never fly here. I've never bought the JTaylor hype because that's all it is, hype. The guy is a one-dimensional player who's had about 1 1/2 good years and made his name on making one play a game while either quitting or getting beat down on the other 50. If anything, Taylor has benefited from playing across from Ogunleye, as JT has had his best two years as a pro when Wally was starting the last 32 games (although the argument that DE's are greatly affected by other DE's has really never held much water for me). Schobel continues to gradually improve but he's still no great shakes and I don't consider Taylor any better than him. So you agree w/the Bears giving O-Gun 15 million in gauranteed money? Don't forget this guy was an undrafted free agent because of the severity of his knee injury at Indiana..... That's the going rate for a premeir DE because they're hard to find. If the 'phish hadn't blown their cap on pussies like Taylor and aging defenders like ZThomas and Madison they could have retained their best and most promising DE by paying him his market value. And no I don't give a damn about an injury that a guy suffered 5 years ago. As for your last question, I believe Mr Martling sufficiently covered it in the post above mine. Cya
Guest Guest_DCM_* Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Well....I see you are in the minority in your opinion of Jason Taylor...maybe the lack of having a "playmaking" defensive end on your team since the days of BRUUUUUUCE!!!! has clouded your judgement. A recent post of mine asked if you could have one Dolphin player off the Fins roster added to the Bills who would that be? All salary cap implications aside, strictly on talent. Who do you think most of those on this board that you claimed "lmao, sorry but that one will never fly here. I've never bought the JTaylor hype because that's all it is, hype. " wanted on the Bills? I'll give you one guess, his initials are Jason Taylor..... I'm lmfao at your over-rated hype description of JT.....there are very few players who make plays from the DE position at crucial times during a football game, plays that change momentum and seal wins when they are in the balance....JT is one of those players.... btw, 1.5 good years??? puh-lease..... Hate the team.....not the playa.....JT has been a stud in ther NFL since day 1....
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