Dibs Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I remember the vikes did something like front loaded AW's contract, and took the cap hit for the entire bonus is year 1 instead of spreading it out. AW cost something crazy like 15 mil against the cap in year , but every subsequent year he only cost around 3 million. I'd love to see the Bills do that this season with the cap space we have, and lock up some young talent, but i dont forsee that happening. 719094[/snapback] Someone correct me if I'm wrong but....we should be able to 'front load' a contract after the season finishes....all the way up to the new NFL year.(I think the Rams did it this year with Glover(?)). It has an additional effect of spreading any signing bonus you do pay over an additional year as well. It would work like this.... Just before the new NFL year(next year), we offer every cent left under the cap to NC(or any other up&comer....Peters(?)) for a renewed contract for the 2006+ season. It would work as a 'fake' signing bonus. The player would then be locked up long term, get the money he demands & leave the Bills with very reasonable cap figures into the future. It also means if the player turns to ****(injury) & is cut in 2 years, there will be very little cap hit since it was paid as salary not cap in the first place. Please somebody correct me if this is not how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 The NC situation is a good one for us. The possibilities seem to be: 1. We agree to a long term deal with him before the season Advantages: A. we lock up a starting CB long term B. we lower our cap hit and manage it better by distributing his signing bonus in a manner which fits our cap plans. 2. Disadvantage: A. We probably overpay a bit for his current value based on his disappoitning results last year (but as he knows our team and he had vvery good development prior to that overpaying is reasonable). B. We have the happy problem of a bit of a logjam of talent at CB. 2. He plays out his contract Advantages: A. He has huge incentives to be productive this year for us, B. We still have a shot at signing him when he becomes an FA as we have agreed not to tag him (I have seen no distinction between franchise or transition, I think we do not tag him at all next of-season and if we do our name will be mud for any FAs we want to sigh in the future as it will be clear the Bills word means little). Disadvantages: He may walk after next season- but if he does then so be it as those are the rules. Players from TKO to Fletch came to Bills with no compensation being given up by us. Sometimes you lose a Winfield, but sometimes you gain a TKO. It will be unfortunate if we lose him for nada but I so not have a big problem with this. 3. The sub-issue is how well he plays this year. If he plays well I see no problem with us paying a lot of $ to keep him. Our cap room is up and we have to and should spend it somewhere. IF NC has another Pro Bowl year I consider 2006 a bargain for us and do not mind paying him what the market says he is worth. On the other hand if he has a second consecutive disappointing year his market value is hurt a lot and we can sign him to a very reasonable contract to lock him up instead of overpaying him a bit as we likely would need to do now. This is only if we choose to resign him if he has a second bad year. Youbouty has not an unreasonable shot at being a reasonable #2 next year as he generally was assessed as being a 1st rounder in terms of physical talent this year, but he needed another year of college to get the mental side of his game up to first round levels. Ny spending this year in the Bills system rather than in college he should be at a high level next year. King has an outside shot at being good enough to be a #2 and even though he is more likelya nickel, Greer is already good enough to hold down this position for us for a couple of years. I see no reason why we shouldn't play this one out for quite a while as while having him walk without compensation is not good, but this is what the rules are and we are prepared for it if that is the worst thing which happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Someone correct me if I'm wrong but....we should be able to 'front load' a contract after the season finishes....all the way up to the new NFL year.(I think the Rams did it this year with Glover(?)). It has an additional effect of spreading any signing bonus you do pay over an additional year as well.It would work like this.... Just before the new NFL year(next year), we offer every cent left under the cap to NC(or any other up&comer....Peters(?)) for a renewed contract for the 2006+ season. It would work as a 'fake' signing bonus. The player would then be locked up long term, get the money he demands & leave the Bills with very reasonable cap figures into the future. It also means if the player turns to ****(injury) & is cut in 2 years, there will be very little cap hit since it was paid as salary not cap in the first place. Please somebody correct me if this is not how it works. 719476[/snapback] I am not sure what you mean, but I think that you are talking about a large salary in year one of the contract and smaller numbers thereafter, as opposed to a large signing bonus and a small 1st year salary (which would lessen the initial cap hit but take it's toll in later years). This is an interesting concept, but NOT with the players that you named. We already have 10,000 defensive backs, and who knows how good Peters will be? Besides, we have options on his contract next year, or so one would think. Take you scenario and offer the huge up-front money to Steinbach or Levi Jones in 07, and you have yourself a great looking proposition, given that the Bills will have TONS of caps space next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I am not sure what you mean, but I think that you are talking about a large salary in year one of the contract and smaller numbers thereafter, as opposed to a large signing bonus and a small 1st year salary (which would lessen the initial cap hit but take it's toll in later years). This is an interesting concept, but NOT with the players that you named. We already have 10,000 defensive backs, and who knows how good Peters will be? Besides, we have options on his contract next year, or so one would think. Take you scenario and offer the huge up-front money to Steinbach or Levi Jones in 07, and you have yourself a great looking proposition, given that the Bills will have TONS of caps space next year. 719571[/snapback] I think he is talking about paying a large payout to NC which would count in the first year of his new contract so that you would not owe any additional payments beyond the NFL minimum to NC from here on out. This savings in low cap hit for Clements here on out could then be allocated to Steinbach, Jones or whomever you want. I think the way the dates for the new cap kicking in and how payments are allocated from current contracts makes this idea not really work. The 2006 contract year is already set and all payments (even a balloon to NC made just before this cap season ends) would go into the 2007 cap # which you want to use in talent like a Jones or Steinbach. In theory you could use the out savings from an upfront balloon payment to NC to allow you to distribute more cao $ to new acquisitions, but you gotta pay sometime and under this formulation crunch time probably comes up front and offers little marginal value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I think the way the dates for the new cap kicking in and how payments are allocated from current contracts makes this idea not really work. The 2006 contract year is already set and all payments (even a balloon to NC made just before this cap season ends) would go into the 2007 cap # which you want to use in talent like a Jones or Steinbach. 719691[/snapback] What dates are you talking about? Seems to me that if you sign anyone this year you have to fit them under this years cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I have a feeling the reason why we did not sign him up long term already was because Marv & Co. were not going to lock up BIG dollars long-term on a guy who had just had a very bad(for him) year. I tend to think that if NC was coming off back to back pro bowl type years we would have him locked up for top dollar.Hopefully he will play his a$$ off this year. If he does, he tests the FA market, we Transition tag him(assuming they have fixed it) & we retain him for what he is worth....big bucks hopefully. If he is worth keeping...i.e. he has a pro bowl type season...& he is let go, we will probably get a 3rd round compensation pick because of the loss. Not good...but better than nothing. 719027[/snapback] Yeah, unless Marv sign a or a few "bargin" FA's in 2007. That will cut the 3rd to a 7th or nothing very quickly. Interesting how a late FA signing (Bennie Anderson?) can cost you a possible third rounder or may a 5th rounder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBilliever Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Who do we trade him for? that's the question... Possibly a #1 reciever or a decent quarterback (since Holcomb isn't good enough for some people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 He will be gone next year. There is NO WAY were going to pay him the kind of money he's asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 .......In theory you could use the out savings from an upfront balloon payment to NC to allow you to distribute more cao $ to new acquisitions, but you gotta pay sometime and under this formulation crunch time probably comes up front and offers little marginal value. 719691[/snapback] I don't think I made myself clear which is no surprise since I am not 100% sure of it but....here goes. If today we were to tare up NCs contract & offer him a...what's a top contract worth? This won't be right but let's use these figures......say a 7 year $49 mil contract. Normally that might include a say $14 mil signing bonus. With yearly payments of... Y1 2m Y2 3m Y3 4m Y4 5m Y5 6m Y6 7m Y7 8m If he was cut after 4 years, he would have received 28mil(7 mil a year). The cap hit would be....6 mil. If however the same 7 year $49 mil contract was structured as.... (firstly we have about 15mil under the cap now, plus NCs 7mil is 22mil.) No signing bonus. Guaranteed year 1 of 22mil Y2 2m Y3 2m Y4 2m Y5 2m Y6 9m Y7 10m Again, if he was cut after 4 years, he would have received 28mil(7 mil a year). There would be NO cap hit. It also would mean that we would be better off in terms of cap room in.... 2007 by 3mil, 2008 by 4mil, 2009 by 5mil, 2010 by 6mil, 2011 by 0mil, 2012 by 0mil. That was the part I am fairly sure is possible. The part I am unsure of is..... If we were to wait till just before FA next year....just before the new NFL year....& we re-sign NC to the deal I put forward above(even though he has already played all the matches for the year & the season is over) In effect it would be using the left over salary cap room from this year as a signing bonus which does not count towards being a signing bonus. Is doing that legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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