keepthefaith Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 The Buffalo news prints a rundown of AFC East changes and calls Culpepper an elite QB acquisition for the Dolphins? I think he needs to work on becoming average before anyone starts calling him Elite. He's coming off a serious injury and Brad Johnson looked to be a huge impovement for the Vikings after Culpepper went down last year. He might be closer to a bust than elite.
ajzepp Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 I, for one, was happier to see Culpepper land in Miami as opposed to Drew Brees.
Brandon Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 Culpepper posted over 5,100 total yards and 41 TDs in 2004. He averaged about 26 TD passes per season from 2000 to 2004. It seems to me that if he can return healthy, there should be little doubt that he can play.
Mikie2times Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 Culpepper posted over 5,100 total yards and 41 TDs in 2004. He averaged about 26 TD passes per season from 2000 to 2004. It seems to me that if he can return healthy, there should be little doubt that he can play. 717462[/snapback] Two things. A knee injury like his for a pocket guy, verse a scrambling QB is a completely different ball game. Then you must factor in what he looked like last year without Moss on his team. In one word, Hideous. I don't think he ever returns to the guy that put up gaudy numbers in Minnesota.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 Culpepper posted over 5,100 total yards and 41 TDs in 2004. He averaged about 26 TD passes per season from 2000 to 2004. It seems to me that if he can return healthy, there should be little doubt that he can play. 717462[/snapback] two words: Randy Moss PTR
cantankerous Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 He was a great QB before that nasty knee injury...we'll see when he comes back if he can be that productive. Miami has pretty good receivers though.
DCM Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 two words: Randy Moss PTR 717466[/snapback] Yeah....Randy Moss did wonders for Kerry Collins last year. Take into account that Moss had an upper tier wideout partner in Joey Porter as well.... So...if the Fins acquire Randy Moss.....you'd admit that Daunte will return to All Pro form? Have you read the Culpepper Manifesto?culpepper manifesto
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 two words: Randy Moss PTR 717466[/snapback] yeah pretty much Culpeppers 2004 #'s with moss weeks moss played- 1, 2,3,5,6,12,13,14,15,16,17 3538 yards 25 tds 8 ints broken down that's 326 yards per game 2.3tds per game and just under a pick per game Culpeppers 2004 #'s without moss weeks moss didnt play- 7,8,9,10,11 1179 yards 9 tds 4 ints thats 236 yards per game 1.8 tds per game and 1.25 picks per game Miami has some formidble weapons that will definitly be productive including chambers, mcmichael, ronnie brown, and it could be argued that moss was a non factor in several games due to being injured however even an injured randy moss still has to be taken into consideration, but here's to hoping he never regains that form
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 Yeah....Randy Moss did wonders for Kerry Collins last year. Take into account that Moss had an upper tier wideout partner in Joey Porter as well.... So...if the Fins acquire Randy Moss.....you'd admit that Daunte will return to All Pro form? Have you read the Culpepper Manifesto?culpepper manifesto Fine, Culpepper not having Moss didn't contribute to Culpepper having a lousy year. So what DID?
DCM Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 Fine, Culpepper not having Moss didn't contribute to Culpepper having a lousy year. So what DID? 717480[/snapback] well....I'm sure it had some effect, but not the sole reason for his terrible 1st 2 weeks of the 06 season. "Culpepper had a very bad start to 2005. He had 8 picks in the first 2 games, but had 6 TDs and 4 INTs in the 4 games after that. He was playing for a new OC, with a new set of receivers and an OL that had lost its anchor, Pro Bowl center Matt Birk. The OL was really struggling -- he was sacked 31 times in just over 6 games. You can't disregard his career numbers based on 2 bad games at the start of the season. Even the best QBs will occasionally have a 3-4 INT game." Granted how well he adjusts to his new offensive teammates will be a major factor in how well he performs. My best case scenario is that Hudson Houck can figure out a way for Daunte to get some much needed pass protection.
Mikie2times Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 Yeah....Randy Moss did wonders for Kerry Collins last year. Take into account that Moss had an upper tier wideout partner in Joey Porter as well.... So...if the Fins acquire Randy Moss.....you'd admit that Daunte will return to All Pro form? Have you read the Culpepper Manifesto?culpepper manifesto 717471[/snapback] If picking up Daunte didn't freak so many people out I doubt somebody would spend the time to write a manifesto convincing Dolphin fan how great the signing was. Moss suffered a bad groin injury in week 6 last year. Groin injuries are among the most difficult nagging injuries for a receiver to recover from (Ask Eric Moulds). Up until that point he was making Collins look like the same pro bowl imposter Daunte looked like during his time with him. Moss played 4 healthy games last year before suffering his injury against the Chargers in the 1st quarter. Those first 4 games Collins only threw for 1,091 yards, 7 TD's 0 INT's.
Fezmid Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 For people who roast Bledsoe's sacks and fumbles, you'd think you'd be able to do the same for Culpepper. In 81 games, he has 81 fumbles and 36 lost, for an average of 1/game, and .444/game lost. Bledsoe's average is only .638/game, and .298/game lost. Top that off with the fact that the Vikes had a MUCH better OL than the Dolphins do, and I think you're looking at some bad play for the Phins. I hope I'm right CW
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 To say Randy Moss made Culpepper is wrong. Yes, he is arguably the best wr in the game. But did Andre Reed make Jim Kelly or Marvin Harrison make Peyton Manning? Guys like Wiggins (their leading receiver) and Nate Burleson also had career years in 2004. Additionally, the Vikings had one of the worst running attacks in the league so a lot of the pressure of carrying the offense fell on Culpepper. Plus, Miami has some of the best skill players in the league so he definitely has some weapons. That said, how good is Miami's line? Honestly, I don't think they were much better than ours last year. A QB coming back from a devasting knee injury that Culpepper suffered could be in a lot of trouble. So here's to Danute failing horribly in the retirement state.
Mikie2times Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 For people who roast Bledsoe's sacks and fumbles, you'd think you'd be able to do the same for Culpepper. In 81 games, he has 81 fumbles and 36 lost, for an average of 1/game, and .444/game lost. Bledsoe's average is only .638/game, and .298/game lost. Top that off with the fact that the Vikes had a MUCH better OL than the Dolphins do, and I think you're looking at some bad play for the Phins. I hope I'm right CW 717499[/snapback] I don't compare Daunte to Drew because Daunte scrambles. Scramblers get tackled more, and as a result fumble more. A player like Drew fumbles an uncanny amount for a non scrambling QB. What they do both share is same problems in inconsistency because they fumble a lot. Daunte is an average QB without Moss. Not great or bad, but average. That was before his injury, so now I feel he's an even bigger question mark. If you did read parts of the Cullpepper Manifesto the author selectively choose stats to make fish fans feel warm and Cozy. My personal favorite was his removal of Randy's stats from Culppeppers 2004 year to justify how great he is. How can you accurately measure what Moss brings like this? He's the most athletically gifted WR the NFL has ever seen. Coordinators routinely say they completely alter their game plan based on his availability. Moss produces amazing numbers himself and no WR in the NFL opens it up more for his teammates. When he left Minnesota that's what they lost. Culppepper got sacked more because he got blitzed more. All of the resources got back to focusing on Daunte, and he stunk the joint up until he blew out his knee.
BuffOrange Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 I think he's a pretty good QB. Not great, but there are only 2 great QB's in the league. Moss helps, but he only played what like 6 games without him? I think that's too small of a sample to say that he sucks without him; especially when he played pretty well the times Moss was injured in Minnesota.
Pyrite Gal Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 BUST!!!!! 717438[/snapback] I don't think so. I think most people define a bust as a draftee like a Mike Williams, Harrington, or Leaf who implode completely and never produce anything near their expectations (and actually anything at all) for team which wasted a draft choice on them (particularly a high one). I think as Culpepper successfully played QB on a team which went deep in the playoffs early in his career (I think they made the conference finals in his second year) and also since he posted some gaudy passing numbers in several years during his career, he is pretty far away from being a bust. He certainly has disappointed Vikes fans with not even getting to an SB, but this says more about the unreasonable expectation of Vikes fans (afterall we fans are supposed to be unreasonable in our hopes, we Bills lovers certainly are), and some really poor management by the Vikes braintrust than it leads to the conclusion that Culpepper was a bust. Ironically, I am also happy to see the Fins go down this path in search of a winner as I do not think ut will work out for the Fins. In order for Culpepper to perform well, it appears he needs very talented and very disciplined WRs. Chambers is talented but no one will mistake him for disciplined and with the two of them running around and freelancing high motor guys without outstanding initial moves like Kelsay and to some extent Schobel (though I think he has improved with experience) will get their share of sacks. Also, I think the Vikes improved going from Culpepper to Johnson because the latter has learned to get rid of the ball quick rather than using his running to extend the play. Blockers like McKinnie who also lack discipline and do not seem to hold their blocks for a long time do better with a Johnson than with a Culpepper. I think the Fins will actually be taken advantage of their first few games as they get used to the Culpepper style and do no be surprised if the Bills pull off an upset against a Miami team that appears as troubled as the Bills are.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 well....I'm sure it had some effect, but not the sole reason for his terrible 1st 2 weeks of the 06 season. "Culpepper had a very bad start to 2005. He had 8 picks in the first 2 games, but had 6 TDs and 4 INTs in the 4 games after that. He was playing for a new OC, with a new set of receivers and an OL that had lost its anchor, Pro Bowl center Matt Birk. The OL was really struggling -- he was sacked 31 times in just over 6 games. You can't disregard his career numbers based on 2 bad games at the start of the season. Even the best QBs will occasionally have a 3-4 INT game." Granted how well he adjusts to his new offensive teammates will be a major factor in how well he performs. My best case scenario is that Hudson Houck can figure out a way for Daunte to get some much needed pass protection. 717484[/snapback] Good rebuttal. My take is that the loss of Moss and Linehan had a big effect on Culpepper, if not the loss of Matt Birk at center. The problems for Daunte however are that he's NOT getting these guys back, is coming off a major knee injury, and needs time to get comfortable with his receivers, which he might not be able to do because of his knee injury. And the knee injury will limit his mobility, which will be something he'll have to learn to overcome being that he's a scrambling QB, which is something you don't want to force on him while rushing him back to play. Changing his supporting coaches, cast, and playing style, ALL while still being in the process of coming back from a serious knee injury, are a recipe for failure, and the Dols would be best served not playing him this year but keeping him as the 3rd QB so as to allow him to practice with the team, saving him for next year. But that's likely not how it's going to go down, and I'm completely fine with that. And as for last year, his only good games (i.e. where he threw more TD's than INT's) were against 2 of the worst teams in the NFL: the Packers and the Saints. He also fumbled 5 times in those 6 games, and the inordinate number of sacks has to be a concern as well. Will he get sacked less with the Dols? Hard to say he will.
Dante Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 For people who roast Bledsoe's sacks and fumbles, you'd think you'd be able to do the same for Culpepper. In 81 games, he has 81 fumbles and 36 lost, for an average of 1/game, and .444/game lost. Bledsoe's average is only .638/game, and .298/game lost. Top that off with the fact that the Vikes had a MUCH better OL than the Dolphins do, and I think you're looking at some bad play for the Phins. I hope I'm right CW 717499[/snapback] I think your right. Culpepper was Bledsoe like last season. Horrible. Im glad the Phins got em.
BuffOrange Posted July 2, 2006 Posted July 2, 2006 I think your right. Culpepper was Bledsoe like last season. Horrible. Im glad the Phins got em. 717525[/snapback] Haha nice
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