Simpson or Thurman

[erynthered]

Watched him go 90+ in agame at the "ol' Rock pile" in the 70's.

Earlier poster was right, when OJ touched the ball, everyone froze until he was brought down. He  --- would ---- go  --- all  --- the ---way, on any play.

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Right on track, nero,

 

TT was a great back for the Bills, without a doubt, but OJ was a better back.

[Spiderweb]

Ah...Johnny Rausch.

 

Raush used the Slasher on KO returns from time to time.  IIRC, he had some sort of unbelivable average...40+ yards per.

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It was around 30.....but hey, why not embellish it a bit. Maybe in a few more years,

it will be up to 50...

[Spiderweb]

I wondering how many here, ever saw OJ play.

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His entire career, including USC, but then that makes me older than most around here...

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

THURMAN!

[Dibs]

THURMAN!

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I like your arguments. Hard to refute & totally unambiguous.

 

BTW, I'm not an 'old fart' & therefore have only seen OJ from old footage but....why, if he was head & shoulders above TT do so many old fart analysts in the media rate TT so highly?

 

I think there is perhaps a bit of "when I was a lad..." mentality going on with this topic.

[Buftex]

 

I think there is perhaps a bit of "when I was a lad..." mentality going on with this topic.

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See my first post on this subject. I rank Thurman higher than I do OJ, although I know, OJ was a better athlete, and a better runner...but the Bills acheived so much more during the Thurman era, and Thurman was arguably, the key cog in that machine. Thurman had so much more talent around him than Simpson ever did.

 

Believe me, I am not taking anything away from TT, but he played the best years of his career with an offense stocked with Pro-Bowlers, in a no-huddle formation that allowed him to rip off chunks of yardage against defenses at a major disadvantage. Some of the longest runs out of TT's career, came out of the shot-gun formation, in a no huddle scheme.

 

OJ never had the advantage of playing in any particularly innovative offenses. I would gamble that OJ would have succeeded beautifuly in Thurmans' offense...Thurman would have gotten crushed in the Simpson era offense.

 

They year Simpson broke the 2000 mark, the starting QB for the entire 14 game season, attempted only a little more than 100 passes on the entire season. That was a three-four week total for Kelly. Sure, Jim Braxton was a good blocker, and carried the ball here and there, but everyone knew, if the Bills have the ball, it is going to be Simpson left, Simpson right, and Simpson up the middle, most every play. Anyone who thinks OJ couldn't catch the ball, obviously didn't see him play.

 

As a mid-range "old-fart" Bills fan (old enough to remember the OJ era, not old enough to remember the Jack Kemp era), I assure you....Simpson was not just another great running back. He was the rare world class athlete, whom was able to succeed in pro football, and incorporate all of his athletic skills. If anything, I think his football greatness has been downplayed over the last 13 years, because of his non-football related activities. There was a period of about 7 years, after the murders, where his name was never mentioned on an NFL broadcast, in any context.

 

As for the current "old-fart" analysts, think about it. Their job is to keep people interested in what is going on now...you have got to be old enough to remember Michael Jordan, no? How many times in the last 10 years, have you heard that somebody is the "next Jordan?" Some great basketball players, no doubt, but Jordan played at a level, over a long period of time, that few, if any, can honestly compare with. Simpson is closer to that level. I won't put him in quite the Jordan category, because he got off to a slow start, and went out with, literally, a whimper.

 

Now the "old fart" part comes out:

In the 70's (and likely the 60's), an athlete had to produce to be a "superstar", and had to be a superstar, to gain a lot of media attention, outside of sports. There were only a handful. They didn't have wall to wall sports coverage, sports talk radio, ESPN, "Pimp My Ride", etc etc...nowadays, any skill positon NFL player drafted in the first three rounds of a given draft, will have no fewer than 90 rookie trading cards, before he has even finished a season of football...it is called "pre-fab", something our culture has become way too accepting of, IMO.

 

I would argue, in the 70's, if Simpson wasn't the most popular athlete in America, save Mohammed Ali (maybe Evil Kenevel), he was the most popular, and well known NFL football player, around the country.

[Lord Chinfist]

While talking about who was the better running back, O.J. hands down. A lot of the reasons have already been mentioned, so I apologize if some of this is re-hash.

 

For TT, the defenses had to worry about Andre Reed, James Lofton, and a hall of fame QB. Who was O.J.'s supporting cast in the skill positions? During the 70's Bills, the defenses knew the Bills were going to run, they keyed against the run, yet O.J. still managed to put up amazing numbers. In TT's time, the defenses had to guard against a great passing game also.

 

Although statistics is not the only factor, they are important nonetheless. If O.J. played 16 game seasons, he would have rushed for a projected 2289 yards in 1973 and 2076 yards in 1975. Those two seasons would have been 2 of the top 3 seasons acheived by a running back (to be fair if we want to throw Jim Brown into the mix, he would have had a projected 2129 yards for the 1963 season). Based on rushing yards ( a main criteria for judging a running back), the top 4 individual seasons would belong to 1) O.J. 1973 season, 2) Jim Brown 1963 season, 3) Eric Dickerson 1984 season, and 4) O.J. 1975 season. That is 2 of the top 4 seasons for yards per game. TT's best season? 1487 yards. That is not even as much as O.J. had in his 3rd best season of 1503 yards in 1976 in a 14 game season.

 

The argument can be made that rushing statistics alone do not tell the whole story. Receiving must be part of the equation. No doubt TT was a great receiver and put up great numbers for a running back. But of course, and has been mentioned by others, the offensive systems the two played on were very different. The running plays were much more dominant in O.J.'s era. Where TT was a great receiver, we can say that O.J. was at least a good receiver, and probably would have been just as great a receiver if he were used the same way.

 

Better speed: OJ

More elusive: OJ

More power: OJ

Better blocker: TT

Better receiver: Possibly TT, but really can't be determined

 

Not to take anything away from TT, but as a running back IMHO, OJ was better

[alg]

Another old timer will chime in. To give you 'youngins' perspective on OJ and his era.

 

Consider this year's draft sensation, Reggie Bush. He is regarded, perhaps rightfully, as a once in a generation RB talent. Quite possibly the next Barry Sanders. Really take it all in. The Bush hype is over the top. He can do it all like no one has in a long time.

 

Now consider OJ:

 

1. He had Bush/Sanders moves. Actually, they were more impressive. These guys dart like water bugs. OJ just moved his head slightly to the left or right and the defender's jock strap had to be retrieved after the play. The term 'fluid' can only begin to describe him. He was physical artistry.

 

2. He had the size of even the larger current starting tailbacks. He could and would go inside or out. Was it Joe Ferguson who said that OJ never got enough credit for his toughness? He could make positive yards on a stacked line, unlike guys like Sanders (and probably Bush.)

 

3. If OJ was racing Reggie Bush and all the other top RBs of this era, they would all come in 2nd place or worst. He had legit, World Class speed. Not a 40s only number. A guy who helped set collegiate 100 records.

 

4. TT deserved to get a 1st ballot into the HOF. Kelly did. OJ was waaay beyond Kelly as a recognized 1st balloter. No contest.

 

IMO, the guys who talk of OJ as a top 5 all time back do him a disservice. The only guy I could argue is better them him was Brown. And I only say that because I give deference to the guys who saw him play.

 

In short, for you to understand the OJ of his era you would have to take Bo Jackson with his amazing size / speed combination, and then add the moves of a Sanders or Bush - at full speed.

 

Then you can understand why us guys who watched him roll our eyes when OJ gets dropped to 'top 10' all time rankings because of his double murder, or when the next batch of young football watchers dare to suggest the GREAT Thurman is better. Or, for me, even the guys who talk in whispered tones of the legend of Barry Sanders. Don't even wast my time mentioning a guy like Emmit Smith.

[jahbonas]

Another old timer will chime in.  To give you 'youngins' perspective on OJ and his era.

 

Consider this year's draft sensation, Reggie Bush.  He is regarded, perhaps rightfully, as a once in a generation RB talent.  Quite possibly the next Barry Sanders.  Really take it all in.  The Bush hype is over the top.  He can do it all like no one has in a long time.

 

Now consider OJ:

 

1.  He had Bush/Sanders moves.  Actually, they were more impressive.  These guys dart like water bugs.  OJ just moved his head slightly to the left or right and the defender's jock strap had to be retrieved after the play.  The term 'fluid' can only begin to describe him.  He was physical artistry.

 

2.  He had the size of even the larger current starting tailbacks.  He could and would go inside or out.  Was it Joe Ferguson who said that OJ never got enough credit for his toughness?  He could make positive yards on a stacked line, unlike guys like Sanders (and probably Bush.)

 

3.  If OJ was racing Reggie Bush and all the other top RBs of this era, they would all come in 2nd place or worst.  He had legit, World Class speed.  Not a 40s only number.  A guy who helped set collegiate 100 records.

 

4.  TT deserved to get a 1st ballot into the HOF.  Kelly did.  OJ was waaay beyond Kelly as a recognized 1st balloter.  No contest.

 

IMO, the guys who talk of OJ as a top 5 all time back do him a disservice.  The only guy I could argue is better them him was Brown.  And I only say that because I give deference to the guys who saw him play.

 

In short, for you to understand the OJ of his era you would have to take Bo Jackson with his amazing size / speed combination, and then add the moves of a Sanders or Bush - at full speed. 

 

Then you can understand why us guys who watched him roll our eyes when OJ gets dropped to 'top 10' all time rankings because of his double murder, or when the next batch of young football watchers dare to suggest the GREAT Thurman is better. Or, for me, even the guys who talk in whispered tones of the legend of Barry Sanders.  Don't even wast my time mentioning a guy like Emmit Smith.

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Absolutely correct...the fact that anyone would even THINK that Thurman held OJ's jock as a player is a joke... (comments about his personal life and murder aside...different topic)

Its actually a decent measuring stick when reading the board to clearly see someone has no clue when they would take a 2nd rd pick..5'9 195lbs with avg speed....over the #1 pick overall..the top rating ever given by BLESTO to a college senior...6'3 212 (20 yrs before)....member of a world record relay team at USC....

where everyone of that era knew OJ was the best player in the entire league for years...

What would OJ have done with a 16 game schedule and Jim Kelly at QB and andre reed & Lofton at WR >???

He averaged 6 yards a carry when his qb was a rookie 3rd rd pick...and a rookie and free agent starting on hi OL....

Please name me the last quality RB (or any) that had a rookie QB start who was drafted in the 3rd rd....and then gained 2000yrd on 6yrd/carry average when EVERYONE stacked the line....????