stuckincincy Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 I wondering how many here, ever saw OJ play. 715745[/snapback] Or Ritchie Lucas.
erynthered Posted June 28, 2006 Posted June 28, 2006 Or Ritchie Lucas. 715751[/snapback] That you Gipper?
Buftex Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I do not see why one would have any problem with this bow to reality. 715722[/snapback] I guess we are saying the same thing, except you are taking it one step further. As I said in my earliest post in this thread, it is impossible to speak of OJ Simpson, without images of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman, just as it is impossible to speak of Thurman Thomas without associating him with the greatest period of Bills football in the last 40 years. That is why I would pick Thurman, knowing that OJ Simpson was actually the better pure running back. I saw them both extensively, and I am fairly certain, anyone being objective, would come to the same conclusion. A contridiction? Yes! If somone asks you, who was a better running back, OJ Simpson or Thurman Thomas, you are eliminating Simpson from contention, based on his heinous off the field activities. So what would be the point of discussing it with you? No offense really, but OJ Simpson is the 800 pound gorilla that all Bills fans have to deal with. Jim Dunaway just doesn't have the same cache in Bills lore. Simpson was the Michael Jordan of my youth, and he played for the team that played in my hometown. That was a golden era of professional sports. We had Gilbert Perreault in his prime, the great Bob McAdoo and the crown jewel, OJ Simpson. I don't think casual sports fans, can understand the feelings that some older Bills fans have about Simpson. Yes, I think he is slime, a scumbag...but about 3 or 4 years ago, I had to put it in perspective for myself. OJ is a horrible person, but he was one hell of a football player. I can't let what he did in the summer of 1993, sully my memeries of what he did in the autumn months of the 1970's. They have become two different guys to me...the OJ I loved, died in 1993...I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire now...
The Jokeman Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I never saw OJ play live but in the highlights and replay of games I've seen it's obvious just how good OJ was. He had great size and speed even by today's standards and ranks among the top 5 RBs to ever play in the game. While Thurman might rank among the top 20-25. Everyone likes to point out that Thurman lead the league in yards from scrimmage four times, well OJ did it three times. Everyone also likes to comment on OJ's 2000 rushing yard season but his finest season might have been two years later when he had 1817 yards rushing, 426 receiving (on 28 catches) and had 23 (16 rushing and 7 receiving) TDs in 14 games. Compare that to Thurman's best season where he had 1407 yards rushing 632 receiving (on 62 catches) and only 12 TDs (7 rushing and 5 receiving) in 15 games. To me it's easy to see OJ's the best RB the Bills have had by a large margin over Thurman.
erynthered Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I never saw OJ play live but in the highlights and replay of games I've seen it's obvious just how good OJ was. He had great size and speed even by today's standards and ranks among the top 5 RBs to ever play in the game. While Thurman might rank among the top 20-25. Everyone likes to point out that Thurman lead the league in yards from scrimmage four times, well OJ did it three times. Everyone also likes to comment on OJ's 2000 rushing yard season but his finest season might have been two years later when he had 1817 yards rushing, 426 receiving (on 28 catches) and had 23 (16 rushing and 7 receiving) TDs in 14 games. Compare that to Thurman's best season where he had 1407 yards rushing 632 receiving (on 62 catches) and only 12 TDs (7 rushing and 5 receiving) in 15 games. To me it's easy to see OJ's the best RB the Bills have had by a large margin over Thurman. 715864[/snapback] This, my man, Is a great post. Nice job.
Pyrite Gal Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I guess we are saying the same thing, except you are taking it one step further. As I said in my earliest post in this thread, it is impossible to speak of OJ Simpson, without images of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman, just as it is impossible to speak of Thurman Thomas without associating him with the greatest period of Bills football in the last 40 years. That is why I would pick Thurman, knowing that OJ Simpson was actually the better pure running back. I saw them both extensively, and I am fairly certain, anyone being objective, would come to the same conclusion. A contridiction? Yes! If somone asks you, who was a better running back, OJ Simpson or Thurman Thomas, you are eliminating Simpson from contention, based on his heinous off the field activities. So what would be the point of discussing it with you? No offense really, but OJ Simpson is the 800 pound gorilla that all Bills fans have to deal with. Jim Dunaway just doesn't have the same cache in Bills lore. Simpson was the Michael Jordan of my youth, and he played for the team that played in my hometown. That was a golden era of professional sports. We had Gilbert Perreault in his prime, the great Bob McAdoo and the crown jewel, OJ Simpson. I don't think casual sports fans, can understand the feelings that some older Bills fans have about Simpson. Yes, I think he is slime, a scumbag...but about 3 or 4 years ago, I had to put it in perspective for myself. OJ is a horrible person, but he was one hell of a football player. I can't let what he did in the summer of 1993, sully my memeries of what he did in the autumn months of the 1970's. They have become two different guys to me...the OJ I loved, died in 1993...I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire now... 715849[/snapback] My point is that actually one should not deny reality. Should consideration of his heinour off field activities cause us to totally ignore his on field accomplishments? No. Should consideration of his great on field accomplishments cause us to totally ignore his heinous off field activities? No. TSW is generally about football and not about off-field activity. sp I think the TT v. OJ debate as players is legit. However, is off-field activities were so heinous that I think that even amidst the many posts which offer legitimate debate on the football stuff even if some opinions are ultimately inaccurate, its also more than legit for posts which highlight his heinour acts and hope he rots in hell for them is legit as well.
Buftex Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 My point is that actually one should not deny reality. 715876[/snapback] I guess my point is, that nobody here, that I have read, is in denial of reality. At least not as far as OJ Simpson is concerned.
Pyrite Gal Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I guess my point is, that nobody here, that I have read, is in denial of reality. At least not as far as OJ Simpson is concerned. 715975[/snapback] Like most of my posts I do them for me rather than for the readers. Part ofthe reason for my being overly lengthy and verbose (in addition to me just being sloppy) is that I'm thinking in print. I appreciate any commentary, but I do this for myself. Likewise, remembering OJ's crimes is something I do for myself and I feel better about my thinking when I keep reality in mind in addition to the NFL. I really am not posting to force folks to remember that which I think you are right most folks do remember and OJ will never have the love of the crowd which he squandered through his heinous crimes.
Dwight Drane Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 OJ was Secretariat Thurman was Afleet Alex TKO is Barba.........ahhh, nevermind.
obie_wan Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I never saw OJ play live but in the highlights and replay of games I've seen it's obvious just how good OJ was. He had great size and speed even by today's standards and ranks among the top 5 RBs to ever play in the game. While Thurman might rank among the top 20-25. Everyone likes to point out that Thurman lead the league in yards from scrimmage four times, well OJ did it three times. Everyone also likes to comment on OJ's 2000 rushing yard season but his finest season might have been two years later when he had 1817 yards rushing, 426 receiving (on 28 catches) and had 23 (16 rushing and 7 receiving) TDs in 14 games. Compare that to Thurman's best season where he had 1407 yards rushing 632 receiving (on 62 catches) and only 12 TDs (7 rushing and 5 receiving) in 15 games. To me it's easy to see OJ's the best RB the Bills have had by a large margin over Thurman. 715864[/snapback] Thurman's lack of TDs is mostly due to stupid coaching. He should have had most of those 14 TDs per year Robb Riddick got on 1 yard leaps.
eball Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Opinions are like a-holes, you know...and mine is that there is not much of a comparison here. The Juice was, in a word, electric. TT was phenomenal for the Bills, but his exploits weren't even enough to get him in as a 1st ballot HOFer. I think it's ridiculous that he didn't make it, but it helps to prove my point. Nobody even questioned for a moment that OJ is a HOFer. Yes, I believe it is possible to judge these players solely with respect to their on-field performance. On that basis, OJ wins handily. I believe OJ is still a top-5 all time RB. Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton also belong on that list.
Buftex Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Thurman's lack of TDs is mostly due to stupid coaching. He should have had most of those 14 TDs per year Robb Riddick got on 1 yard leaps. 716244[/snapback] Uhh....maybe you mean Kenneth Davis? I can't look it up right now, but I am pretty sure that Riddick and Thurman didn't play together... EDIT: just looked it up....Riddick and Thurman spent one season together. Riddick had 12 td's that year. For his career (spent 8 years in Buffalo, but missed two seasons to injury), Riddick had 21 rushing td's and 5 receiving td's. He was having a great season...but injuries started creeping in again. He played a big part of the season with a cast on his arm. Thurman, the rookie, started getting more playing time in the second half of the season. He had only 2 td's his rookie year. Kenneth Davis, spent 6 seasons backing up Thurman. In Buffalo, he scored 27 rushing TD's and 5 receiving TDs. That is an average of 6.40 Td's a season, hardly 14 a year! The most KD had in any one season was 6. He did that twice. I don't think it was "stupid coaching" that limited Thurman's td's. Sure Davis came in on short yardage from time to time. However, I think it was due more to the fact that the Bills had a very balanced offense (remarkably, TT and Andre Reed had the exact number of td's in their Bills careers), and the tight end was a big part of the Bills short yardage offense. You remember Butch Rolle don't you? He was the tight end of choice from the one yard line (I think he had 9 one yard td passes thrown his way in 4 years, never caught any other passes) while Pete Metzelaars was the man from about the 12 yard line. And then of course, there was the threat of Mithch Frerotte!
dhgold Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 With all due respect to the young turks around here, it's not even close. OJ was BY FAR the better running back of the two and is in the top 4 all time (brown,sayers,sanders). There are only a few backs all time that, when they got the ball, you actually FELT IN YOUR STOMACH that they would take it the distance, EVERY TIME! OJ was one of those few. Great hands, a good blocker, and (don't know what respk was referring to) when they needed tough yards, OJ got the ball FAR, FAR more often than Braxton. Between the tackles or around the corner, OJ got his yards. Big, strong, with world class (yes world class) sprinter's speed (his college 4x100 relay team once held the record), back like OJ come around once in a generation. And we were lucky to have had him. Too bad his first three years were wasted by sh*t coaching. Anyone who would inject his status as a murderer and let it cloud their opinion of him as a player isn't being fair to the discussion. GO BILLS!!! 715698[/snapback] Another long timer chiming in here -- I watched OJ play in War Memorial Stadium. OJ remains the most electric athlete I've ever witnessed in any sport. He had the elusiveness of Sanders, with an ability to make cuts that left defenders staring into space while not losing his forward speed. He had Bo Jackson type speed where you new that once he got into the open field, no one was going to catch him. Plus he even had decent power -- his first touchdown against UCLA in '67 went straight up the middle and over several defenders. (The second was as thrilling a piece of open field running as you'll ever see.) As a Bills fan, I love what Thurman did for the team and am outraged he didn't make the HOF on the first ballot, but OJ was hands down a greater talent. While we're at it, my list of greatest Bills post 1966 (in order): OJ, Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, Thurman.
nero47 Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 I wondering how many here, ever saw OJ play. 715745[/snapback] Watched him go 90+ in agame at the "ol' Rock pile" in the 70's. Earlier poster was right, when OJ touched the ball, everyone froze until he was brought down. He --- would ---- go --- all --- the ---way, on any play.
LabattBlue Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Simpson was the Michael Jordan of my youth, and he played for the team that played in my hometown. That was a golden era of professional sports. We had Gilbert Perreault in his prime, the great Bob McAdoo and the crown jewel, OJ Simpson. I don't think casual sports fans, can understand the feelings that some older Bills fans have about Simpson. Yes, I think he is slime, a scumbag...but about 3 or 4 years ago, I had to put it in perspective for myself. OJ is a horrible person, but he was one hell of a football player. I can't let what he did in the summer of 1993, sully my memeries of what he did in the autumn months of the 1970's. They have become two different guys to me...the OJ I loved, died in 1993...I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire now... 715849[/snapback] I grew up watching OJ(along with McAdoo and Perreault) and I agree with everything you said. OJ was head and shoulders above Thurman as a RB. Unfortunately, bad teams, stupid coaches and injury problems stopped him from being possibly the best of all time. Thurman was very good, but no comparison.
The Jokeman Posted June 29, 2006 Posted June 29, 2006 Thurman's lack of TDs is mostly due to stupid coaching. He should have had most of those 14 TDs per year Robb Riddick got on 1 yard leaps. 716244[/snapback] That's a poor arguement as in 1975 the Bills FB Jim Braxton rushed for 823 yards and 9 TDs and had 4 TDs on 26 catches. In comparison Ken Davis had 613 yards and 6 TDs and 0 TDs on 14 catches in 1992. Also they say you can measure a back in part by his yard per carry well OJ had a 5.5 yards per rush that year where Thurman had a 4.8. As think about this, OJ outrushed Thurman by 300 more yards on only 17 more carries.
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