I must admit it, I hate Kelly Holcomb

[RayFinkle]

I must admit it, I like Kelly Holcomb.

[Mikeleelop]

How can anyone hate Holcomb?  Seriously?  First, a look at KH's stats:

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

2005 Buffalo Bills 10 8 230 155 67.4 1509 6.56 65 10 8 17/140 14 3 85.6

 

Now JP's:

2005 Buffalo Bills 9 8 228 113 49.6 1340 5.88 58 8 8 26/197 15 6 64.9

 

So in the same exact amount of starts, KH had a 20+ edge in QB rating and 17+ edge in completion percentage.  Additionally, KH was sacked 9 less times.  My point isn't to rip JP.  Obviously, the long term success of this franchise will be much better if JP becomes the guy.  But while KH is not an all pro, he is still a pretty decent QB in his own right.  He makes the safe plays and as a result, the Bills were in every game he started.  In fact, there's no question in my mind if KH was the starter in 2004 instead of Bledsoe, the Bills would have been comfortably in the playoffs.  We had the 30th or so ranked defense last year.  So give the man some credit.

712035[/snapback]

Holcomb has no leadership / heart. The NE game is the biggest example. 4th and 10, he throws a 1 yard out to a covered receiver. He gets a completion, which improves his stats, but the Bills lose the game.

 

No upside to Holcomb. None

 

Hate him...

[slothrop]

I challenge you to name seven quarterbacks--just seven--who could have taken that pathetic 2005 Bills team into Gillette Stadium, under those circumstances, against the rested and motivated Patriots, and would have walked out with a win.

712122[/snapback]

 

1. JP Losman

2. Doug Flutie

3. Rob Johnson

4. Alex Van Pelt

5. Drew Bledsoe

6. Caig Null

7. gary Hogaboom (just for sh*ts and giggles)

[Scraps]

1.  JP Losman

2.  Doug Flutie

3.  Rob Johnson

4.  Alex Van Pelt

5.  Drew Bledsoe

6.  Caig Null

7.  gary Hogaboom (just for sh*ts and giggles)

712442[/snapback]

 

I thought you would have added Billy Joe Hobert.

[slothrop]

I thought you would have added Billy Joe Hobert.

712466[/snapback]

 

I was going to - but Hogaboom had a WAY more tallent than Hobert. He could have whooped some serious ass in foxboro.

 

Hobert only had "Holcomb-esque" talent.

[Rico]

1.  JP Losman

2.  Doug Flutie

3.  Rob Johnson

4.  Alex Van Pelt

 

6.  Caig Null

7.  gary Hogaboom (just for sh*ts and giggles)

712442[/snapback]

Fixed. Remember, it was a Sunday Night Prime Time game.

[Orton's Arm]

1.  JP Losman

2.  Doug Flutie

3.  Rob Johnson

4.  Alex Van Pelt

5.  Drew Bledsoe

6.  Caig Null

7.  gary Hogaboom (just for sh*ts and giggles)

712442[/snapback]

I assume you're being sarcastic with this list. When Losman faced the Patriots later that year, he led the Bills to a sparkling seven points. On the other hand, the Patriots scored seven points by returning a Losman interception 39 yards for a touchdown. But while Losman was an equal help to both teams' scoring efforts, he did complete ten passes to the Bills, compared to just three interceptions. In other words, he was over three times more likely to complete a pass to a Bills player than to a Patriot. It was almost like he was trying to complete passes to guys on his own team! He ended the game with a stellar completion percentage of 37%. No doubt Belichick fears the greatness he sees in Losman, and is losing sleep over the possibility of facing him again!

 

In contrast, Holcomb had 20 completions to just one interception, threw for 263 yards, completed over 60% of his passes, and led the offense to 16 points. The lone Holcomb interception didn't result in any New England points.

[Ramius]

I never hated kelly holcomb until October 3, 2005.

[slothrop]

In contrast, Holcomb had 20 completions to just one interception, threw for 263 yards, completed over 60% of his passes, and led the offense to 16 points.  The lone Holcomb interception didn't result in any New England points.

712533[/snapback]

 

Hater!

 

Holcomb is still not better than Gary "The Gun" Hogaboom!

[stuckincincy]

At least Flutie won games, helped the team get into the playoffs and was exciting to watch.  In the end it turned out he was right all along-he should have started ever game that both he and Rob Johnson were healthy for (and that didn't leave many games for Rob anyway). 

Meanwhile, Holcomb does absolutely nothing for the good of the team by starting.  He might have a good game once in a while like the Cincy game, which was taken over by Terrance McGee, not Holcomb, but most of the time he'll just disappoint.  All Holcomb does is take time away from the team finding out if one of the younger QBs has what's needed to be a solid NFL starting QB. 

While I doubt Holcomb will be the starting QB in the Fairchild offense, I can't wait for the day he is out of Buffalo.

711954[/snapback]

 

I don't think that Holcomb will emerge as the starter, either. But I think that there are few teams that wouldn't like him to be the backup choice in case the starter is injured.

 

I'd be circumspect with replacing him, a more or less low-cost vet, with a Nall, who has only a couple of quarters worth of game action under his belt.

 

If you can name a better 2nd qb the Bills can obtain, do so.

[slothrop]

If you can name a better 2nd qb the Bills can obtain, do so.

712559[/snapback]

 

I like this game. Ok, let me think . . . hmmmmmm.

 

How about - - - - - - - GARY HOGABOOM!

[Ramius]

No doubt Belichick fears the greatness he sees in Losman, and is losing sleep over the possibility of facing him again!

712533[/snapback]

And belichick does fear facing holcomb again? on any 3rd or 4th and anything over 5 yards play, belichick knows to sit his defense at the first down marker, because holcomb wont throw it past the LOS.

 

Frankly, both patsy games ended in a loss, so stats really dont matter. And holcomb tossing a 1 yard out on 4th and 7 is a mistake a rookie should make, not a 9 year vet. Plain and simple, holcomb choked in the clutch.

 

I love KH as the Bills backup, but as nothing more than that.

[stuckincincy]

I like this game. Ok, let me think . . . hmmmmmm.

 

How about - - - - - - - GARY HOGABOOM!

712561[/snapback]

 

 

But throwing out the baby with the bath water is an old...and true...saw.

[Orton's Arm]

And belichick does fear facing holcomb again? on any 3rd or 4th and anything over 5 yards play, belichick knows to sit his defense at the first down marker, because holcomb wont throw it past the LOS.

 

Frankly, both patsy games ended in a loss, so stats really dont matter. And holcomb tossing a 1 yard out on 4th and 7 is a mistake a rookie should make, not a 9 year vet. Plain and simple, holcomb choked in the clutch. 

First you hone in on one questionable play by Holcomb--in a situation where he'd been set up to fail--while ignoring all the good he'd done against the Patriots up to that point. Then you seem to say that if two quarterbacks both led losing efforts, the performances of those two quarterbacks must be equal. You don't actually expect anyone to be persuaded by this, do you?

 

As for your point about Holcomb as a backup, I'll agree a rebuilding team like the Bills would be better off by filling the starting QB spot with a younger player. I hope Nall's up to the task, because it would be nice to be able to focus on other needs in next year's draft.

[Ramius]

First you hone in on one questionable play by Holcomb--in a situation where he'd been set up to fail--while ignoring all the good he'd done against the Patriots up to that point.  Then you seem to say that if two quarterbacks both led losing efforts, the performances of those two quarterbacks must be equal.  You don't actually expect anyone to be persuaded by this, do you?

 

As for your point about Holcomb as a backup, I'll agree a rebuilding team like the Bills would be better off by filling the starting QB spot with a younger player.  I hope Nall's up to the task, because it would be nice to be able to focus on other needs in next year's draft.

712582[/snapback]

 

No i wasnt saying the QB's played equal. but in the end a loss is a loss, no matter if the QB threw 50 yards and 6 picks, or if he threw 500 yrads and 6 TD's.

 

And enlighten me how Nall being "up to the task" of holding the clipboard as 3rd stringer is going to help the bills win this year?

[IDBillzFan]

I hope Nall's up to the task, because it would be nice to be able to focus on other needs in next year's draft.

712582[/snapback]

It wasn't until this statement that I finally realized your issue isn't that you love Holcomb, but rather that you don't like JP.

[Albany,n.y.]

You say that you hate him 'worse'.  If you are a worse hater than someone else it means that you don't hate as good as the other hater, in other words your hate has less quality.  I think what you mean to say is that you hate Holcomb more than Flutie.   Unless of course you hate him less.

712209[/snapback]

 

I hope you're happy now, check the title.

[Beerball]

I hope you're happy now, check the title.

712714[/snapback]

[1billsfan]

Rehashing the Bill's QB play in the 2005 season is a complete waist of time at this point. I think the decision on the starting QB for the Bills all boils down to the offseaon workouts like Dick and Marv said it would.

 

As for Losman, if he can't beat out Kelly Holcomb in this his third year on the team then he's as good as gone after this season. That being said I think Losman wins the starting job easily. I mean really, how hard is it to beat out Kelly Holcomb? Short answer...it shouldn't be.

[Orton's Arm]

It wasn't until this statement that I finally realized your issue isn't that you love Holcomb, but rather that you don't like JP.

712623[/snapback]

I feel Holcomb is a guy who works hard, makes the most of the talent he has, and gives the team respectable quarterbacking on any given Sunday. It's nice to see an underdog like him have a good season like 2005.

 

That said, my respect for Holcomb isn't blind. I've come to be pessimistic about this team's short-term prospects. This makes the Bills a questionable fit with an older quarterback like him.

 

I don't see Losman as the answer at quarterback. Holcomb and Nall could both go out with career-ending injuries, and that still wouldn't make him the answer. In general, I feel TD put too much emphasis on athletic ability, and not enough on other factors. While Mike Williams is the most striking example of this, I'd put Losman in that category as well.

 

Prior to coming to the Bills, the biggest quarterback-related decision TD made was to draft Kordell Stewart, then to let Neil O'Donnell hit free agency. TD wasn't the Steelers' GM when O'Donnell was drafted though.

 

In making the Losman pick, I feel TD once again chose a physically gifted athlete who won't be able to make it as a starting quarterback in the NFL. Others feel that I'm wrong, or at least that my conclusion is premature. Time will tell.