Peter King giving Old Whitey a rimjahb

[mary owen]

why the harsh tone for "us western NY'ers"? sounds like he has a hard-on for Bills fans....and not in a good way. I mean, what were the masses in WNY supposed to do, call for RW to extend TD even further? while I don't disagree it was a pretty good draft, he acts as if TD was unceremoniously axed.

 

8. Buffalo. Surprise, surprise. All you western New Yorkers who kicked Tom Donahoe on his way out the door should remember the weekend of April 21-22, 2001: Nate Clements (80 games, 80 starts at corner), Aaron Schobel (75 starts as a DE), Travis Henry (3,749 rushing yards with the Bills) and Jonas Jennings (52 starts at tackle before leaving as a free agent for the Niners). Not bad.

 

 

OK, Peter. I'm remembering 4/21-22.............................oh, dear god, what have we done!!!!!!

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkhA...cnnsi&type=lgns

[PromoTheRobot]

why the harsh tone for "us western NY'ers"? sounds like he has a hard-on for Bills fans....and not in a good way. I mean, what were the masses in WNY supposed to do, call for RW to extend TD even further? while I don't disagree it was a pretty good draft, he acts as if TD was unceremoniously axed.

 

8. Buffalo. Surprise, surprise. All you western New Yorkers who kicked Tom Donahoe on his way out the door should remember the weekend of April 21-22, 2001: Nate Clements (80 games, 80 starts at corner), Aaron Schobel (75 starts as a DE), Travis Henry (3,749 rushing yards with the Bills) and Jonas Jennings (52 starts at tackle before leaving as a free agent for the Niners). Not bad.

OK, Peter. I'm remembering 4/21-22.............................oh, dear god, what have we done!!!!!!

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkhA...cnnsi&type=lgns

710782[/snapback]

Hey Peter, what's Tom record in the playoffs with the Bills? (sfx: crickets chirping) He acts like Clements, Schobel, Henry, and Jennings are all HOF'ers.

 

PTR

[IDBillzFan]

Few people supported Donahoe through all the crap like I did because he put asses in seats and occassionally gave us something to get excited about.

 

But in the end, you can't be happy with a guy who -- after five years -- makes your team crappier.

[mary owen]

Hey Peter,  what's Tom record in the playoffs with the Bills?  (sfx: crickets chirping)  He acts like Clements, Schobel, Henry, and Jennings are all HOF'ers.   

 

PTR

710790[/snapback]

 

 

i think it's time to flood his mail bag again. I sent this over to him:

 

re: Grading the 2001 Draft:

 

You wrote "All you western New Yorkers who kicked Tom Donahoe..." What's with the lecturing? What were Bills fans supposed to do, pray that Ralph Wilson extend Donohoe again? Does his overall track record count? Are we supposed to be greatful for the 2001 Draft and forget about the ugly uniforms he stuck us with and the playoff drought?

 

[Ray]

I defended him for awhile--I think his personnel moves overall were very positive for the team, and the right ones at the time. His HC moves were abysmal. It is amazing as all of these "National Experts" sing his praises they conveniently leave out the fact he did not put together one playoff team in five years--not one! Aren't we the only team in the past five years not to make a playoff game!! I may be missing one other, but you cannot defend that record.

[Thailog80]

Tom Donahoe will forever be linked to Mike Williams.

[Typical TBD Guy]

Tom Donahoe will forever be linked to Mike Williams.

710837[/snapback]

 

Yeah, I was just thinking, next year how is Peter King going to spin TD's 2002 draft grade?

 

Two things King didn't mention about that 2001 draft:

 

1. No players of any significance were drafted by him in the second day of that draft (which was a trend with TD. To date, McGee is the only one out of 25 day 2 picks who's starting in the NFL).

 

2. Schobel and Jennings were good picks, but were also the last players TD drafted on either side of the line who were worth a damn (unless you think Anderson, Kelsay, and Preston will develop into something)...kinda explains why he's no longer here.

[Bob in STL]

why the harsh tone for "us western NY'ers"? sounds like he has a hard-on for Bills fans....and not in a good way. I mean, what were the masses in WNY supposed to do, call for RW to extend TD even further? while I don't disagree it was a pretty good draft, he acts as if TD was unceremoniously axed.

 

8. Buffalo. Surprise, surprise. All you western New Yorkers who kicked Tom Donahoe on his way out the door should remember the weekend of April 21-22, 2001: Nate Clements (80 games, 80 starts at corner), Aaron Schobel (75 starts as a DE), Travis Henry (3,749 rushing yards with the Bills) and Jonas Jennings (52 starts at tackle before leaving as a free agent for the Niners). Not bad.

OK, Peter. I'm remembering 4/21-22.............................oh, dear god, what have we done!!!!!!

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkhA...cnnsi&type=lgns

710782[/snapback]

 

 

TD did get us excited with the Bledsoe and Milloy signings. He brought in Spikes and Fletcher. He made good trades with Price and Henry. Infortunately his bad moves were worse than his good ones. Namely Gregg-o, Mularkey, and those powder puffs he brought in to play OL. His draft record is spotty at best, yet King looks to one year and expects us to judge him on only that. TD's record speaks for itself .. no playoff appearances and he left the team in worse shape than he found it. So who is knocking TD's door down with a GM job?

[krazykat]

8. Buffalo. Surprise, surprise. All you western New Yorkers who kicked Tom Donahoe on his way out the door should remember the weekend of April 21-22, 2001: Nate Clements (80 games, 80 starts at corner), Aaron Schobel (75 starts as a DE), Travis Henry (3,749 rushing yards with the Bills) and Jonas Jennings (52 starts at tackle before leaving as a free agent for the Niners). Not bad.

 

OK there Pete!

 

What I remember is a revolving door of offensive linemen.

 

Drafting McGahee over Eric Steinbach while then drafting Sobieski in the 5th round, injured, and trying to sell Bills fans that Sobieski was really the glue behind the Iowa line.

 

Trading up to draft Denney "because Pittsburgh wanted him."

 

Selecting Kelsay the very next year with an early 2nd rounder.

 

Trading away a slew of useful picks for Losman who barely played.

 

and then of course last offseaosn's marvelous draft featuring Parrish and Everett, either of which has yet to prove that they can last in this league.

 

Under Donahoe it was the "All Talk, no Walk" express.

 

The Pittsburgh game to end the '04 season was his crowning achievement.

 

The man simply didn't know what the hell he was doing. To pick out four players, all from a single draft in which Donahoe probably had his least involvement in from five years ago, and two of which are long gone and a third that has one foot out the door, isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

[keepthefaith]

why the harsh tone for "us western NY'ers"? sounds like he has a hard-on for Bills fans....and not in a good way. I mean, what were the masses in WNY supposed to do, call for RW to extend TD even further? while I don't disagree it was a pretty good draft, he acts as if TD was unceremoniously axed.

 

8. Buffalo. Surprise, surprise. All you western New Yorkers who kicked Tom Donahoe on his way out the door should remember the weekend of April 21-22, 2001: Nate Clements (80 games, 80 starts at corner), Aaron Schobel (75 starts as a DE), Travis Henry (3,749 rushing yards with the Bills) and Jonas Jennings (52 starts at tackle before leaving as a free agent for the Niners). Not bad.

 

 

Are you kidding me? Not one is a star player and with the high draft choices the Bills have had you are supposed to get some quality players over a period of years. Heck, all of us on this board could have showed up in the Bill's "war room" on draft day during the TD era, unprepared but with a "top prospect list" in hand and drafted as well as the Bills did during this period.

 

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 but the simple fact it that TD didn't draft well at all. I'd bet it all now that Marv's drafts will turn out better, but that isn't saying much.

[Dan]

I defended him for awhile--I think his personnel moves overall were very positive for the team, and the right ones at the time.  His HC moves were abysmal.  It is amazing as all of these "National Experts" sing his praises they conveniently leave out the fact he did not put together one playoff team in five years--not one!  Aren't we the only team in the past five years not to make a playoff game!!  I may be missing one other, but you cannot defend that record.

710816[/snapback]

 

I think that sums it all up. Period, end of story.

[BuffOrange]

i think it's time to flood his mail bag again. I sent this over to him:

710793[/snapback]

 

Not bad, I give your email a solid B...could've gotten an A- with a Coy Wire or Ryan Denney or Bledsoe reference.

[Typical TBD Guy]

Aren't we the only team in the past five years not to make a playoff game!!  I may be missing one other, but you cannot defend that record.

710816[/snapback]

 

Along with Cards, Texans (past 4 years), Lions, and Saints. Stellar company, eh? E-mail that to Peter Pan King.

[Buftex]

TD did get us excited with the Bledsoe and Milloy signings.  He brought in Spikes and Fletcher.  He made good trades with Price and Henry.  Infortunately his bad moves were worse than his good ones.  Namely Gregg-o, Mularkey, and those powder puffs he brought in to play OL.  His draft record is spotty at best, yet King looks to one year and expects us to judge him on only that.  TD's record speaks for itself .. no playoff appearances and he left the team in worse shape than he found it.  So who is knocking TD's door down with a GM job?

710872[/snapback]

 

 

I will admitt, I never hated TD as much as some.

 

I know about the lousy record, the lousy drafts, etc etc...in the end, I think what made him a disaster in Buffalo, on the field, was his lack of attention to the offensive line, plane and simple.

 

He was great at the flashy moves, and braught in some good talent. My enthusiasim for each of the last 5 years was higher than it had been in a while. It just seemed like paying equal attention to the "grunts" was beneath him. Trey Teauge, Chris Villerael, and maybe Jason Peters & Wayne Gandy were his only quality O-line signings. None are/were great, but all were serviceable... beyond that, it was one reclamation project after another. If any pay off, TD looks shrewd and smart. None did...TD looked cheap and stupid.

 

As divisive a figure as Drew Bledsoe has become on this board, the trade to get him was a good one. It was one of the best moves TD could make at the time. That being said, he made a crucial error in not building an O-line that could take advantage of Bledsoe's strenghts, rather than one that exposed his weaknesses.

 

There is no real good reason the Bills should not have made an appearence in the playoffs in 2003 or 2004. Sure, Bledsoe sucked. His football brain died after the Texas two-step that Dallas and Houston did on the horrid O-line, in consecutive weeks in 2003. His football brain was beat in.

He checked out after that Dallas game.

 

At that point, it seems, the franchise (ie: TD) decided that the Bills needed a new QB, not a better O-line. Maybe the cap genious figured it was cheaper to pay a first round draft pick QB, than it was to pay 5 solid O-line men. It was really arrogant of TD (and it was his choice, not Mularkeys'), to assume that JP Losman could "do no worse" than Drew Bledsoe. That move was the wrong move, at the wrong time.

 

I am of the opinion, those two games was where you could see Bledsoe just give up on the Bills offense. They were regressing, rather than getting better. Bledsoe followed suit. The O-line ineptitude spread throughout the offense. The effort put forth by the end of the 2003, from everyone, except possibly the much loathed Travis Henry, was embarassing.

 

Most of the pieces were there for this to be a good football team. TD decided to shuffle the deck again, rather than find the missing pieces.

 

I don't think TD is stupid, but his ego was his un-doing here. He got a reputation for being cap savy, and shrewd. That reputation went to his head.

 

Personally, given what has happened since his firing, I would have preferred to see TD get one more season to get things right. While I like the hiring of Jauron, I am not really sold on many of the other changes that took place this off-season. No disrespect toward Marv, I am sure he will do the best he can. I just would feel better, I think, if TD was still pulling the strings, with possibly a new head coach. It is going to be a fun season.....

 

GO BILLS!

[Bob in STL]

I will admitt, I never hated TD as much as some.

 

I know about the lousy record, the lousy drafts, etc etc...in the end, I think what made him a disaster in Buffalo, on the field, was his lack of attention to the offensive line, plane and simple.

 

He was great at the flashy moves, and braught in some good talent. My enthusiasim for each of the last 5 years was higher than it had been in a while.  It just seemed like paying equal attention to the "grunts" was beneath him.  Trey Teauge, Chris Villerael, and maybe Jason Peters & Wayne Gandy were his only quality O-line signings.  None are/were great, but all were serviceable... beyond that, it was one reclamation project after another.  If any pay off, TD looks shrewd and smart.  None did...TD looked cheap and stupid. 

 

As divisive a figure as Drew Bledsoe has become on this board, the trade to get him was a good one.  It was one of the best moves TD could make at the time.  That being said, he made a crucial error in not building an O-line that could take advantage of Bledsoe's strenghts, rather than one that exposed his weaknesses. 

 

There is no real good reason the Bills should not have made an appearence in the playoffs in 2003 or 2004.  Sure, Bledsoe sucked.  His football brain died after the Texas two-step that Dallas and Houston did on the horrid O-line, in consecutive weeks in 2003. His football brain was beat in.

He checked out after that Dallas game. 

 

At that point, it seems, the franchise (ie: TD) decided that the Bills needed a new QB, not a better O-line.  Maybe the cap genious figured it was cheaper to pay a first round draft pick QB, than it was to pay 5 solid O-line men.  It was really arrogant of TD (and it was his choice, not Mularkeys'), to assume that JP Losman could "do no worse" than Drew Bledsoe.  That move was the wrong move, at the wrong time. 

 

I am of the opinion, those two games was where you could see Bledsoe just give up on the Bills offense.  They were regressing, rather than getting better.  Bledsoe followed suit.  The O-line ineptitude spread throughout the offense.  The effort put forth by the end of the 2003, from everyone, except possibly the much loathed Travis Henry, was embarassing. 

 

Most of the pieces were there for this to be a good football team.  TD decided to shuffle the deck again, rather than find the missing pieces. 

 

I don't think TD is stupid, but his ego was his un-doing here.  He got a reputation for being cap savy, and shrewd.  That reputation went to his head. 

 

Personally, given what has happened since his firing, I would have preferred to see TD get one more season to get things right.  While I like the hiring of Jauron, I am not really sold on many of the other changes that took place this off-season.  No disrespect toward Marv, I am sure he will do the best he can.  I just would feel better,  I think, if TD was still pulling the strings, with possibly a new head coach.  It is going to be a fun season.....

 

GO BILLS!

710897[/snapback]

 

 

One more season?

 

Your too kind to TD. His off the field leadership was also very poor. He signed rookie coaches because he wants ALL of the power. Worse yet, he interviewed some of the better ones and STILL didn't sign them. I can just imagine him in the war room. One Bills Drive was in a shambles when he left. He was not an effective leader. His team had no direction. Good riddance Whitey.

[Dan]

I think you can argue the quality of players seven ways to Sunday and both sides will never come to agreement. IMO, you have to look at the overall record. And no playoffs sums it up. We were up and down - from medicore to poor, but never good. The coaching hires were probably his worst moves by far, especially if you buy into the theory that our players aren't that much worse than any one else (overall).

 

I can see why you're not excited about the Bills this year and were in the past. But those flashy moves TD made, where did they get us? This franchise was in desperate need for a change in direction. Marv is doing just that. It's not flashy, its not exciting; but it is changing the look and feel of the team.

 

I suspect that this season, we're going to see a more focused team; a team working towards an identity; and a franchise beginning to change their direction. In 2 or 3 years we'll be able to truly grade Marv and Jauron. And in the end they may not pass, but we defintely needed to change. For 5 years, we waited for and anticipated the great team that would be on the field. They never showed up; it was continual spin. Why wait 1 more year, just to see if suddenly things fell into place?

[Buftex]

  For 5 years, we waited for and anticipated the great team that would be on the field.  They never showed up; it was continual spin. Why wait 1 more year, just to see if suddenly things fell into place?

710905[/snapback]

 

 

I am not sure that I agree that they never showed up. I do agree, however, that they lacked some focus.

 

I can't argue about TD getting canned too much, the results just were not there. I just feel pretty certain that he would have finally recognized the problems on the O-line, and targeted some top tier O-line free agents. There were some good ones out there. I really don't think this team was as far away from being a playoff contender, as they appear now.

 

Say what you will, but TD rarely got out-foxed when it came to getting the FA's he wanted.

 

Honestly, I think the Bills handling of free agency this year was pretty depressing. Not because they didn't sign every big name guy who came along, but because they were used as leveredge by players, to sign with other teams. This was a nineties-Bengals kind of off-season. I liked the Larry Tripplett signing, but most of the other moves had me wondering what they were doing. It seemed like the Bills set their sights fairly low, and couldn't even meet them. There isn't one area of the team where I feel certain that the Bills have improved. TD's moves may not have all worked out, but I always felt like he had a definitive plan, and was very agressive about getting it carried out.

 

I hate to sound like a pessimist. It isn't normally my nature when it comes to the Bills. I will be rooting as hard as ever come August. I hope I am shocked!

[Dan]

Now I'll agree with you there. TD definitely knew how to work the FA market. He was also great with the contracts of the existing players.

 

And I'm not sold on the team this year, just yet. But, I am glad we changed everything from the top down. I think we were more than a little from being a playoff team. I don't have false hopes that we may somehow make the playoffs this year. Borrowing miracles, you never see a change like the Bills have made and have them in the palyoffs within a year.

 

However, I see it more as taking a step backward so that we can take 2 steps forward in the future. I saw the previous teams as becoming stagnant. If all things were clicking they could be good, but there was no fight or leadership anywhere to be found.

[Buftex]

One more season? 

 

Your too kind to TD.  His off the field leadership was also very poor.  He signed rookie coaches because he wants ALL of the power.  Worse yet, he interviewed some of the better ones and STILL didn't sign them.  I can just imagine him in the war room.  One Bills Drive was in a shambles when he left.  He was not an effective  leader.  His team had no direction.  Good riddance Whitey.

710901[/snapback]

 

 

Believe me, I know. A good friend of mines' sister, works for the Bills. TD had too much autonomy, and was making One Bills Drive a negative place to work. Nobody, however, ever doubted his committment toward making the Bills a winner again.

 

He deserves a ton of criticism for his coaching choices, I agree. Part of the reason things were in such a shambles when he left, was that Ralph never really gave him the impression that he would be fired, until the final week. Up to that point, he was drunk on power, and felt like he had the owners' ear. In reality, Ralph was making overtures toward Marv much earlier than that.

 

I hold Ralph almost as responsible for this mess as I do TD. Ralph was aware of the morale problems toward the end of 2004. IMO, Ralph should have stepped in then. Maybe bring Marv at that time, to serve as a medium between him in Detroit, and TD in Orchard Park. The Bills were coming off their most exciting season in years. I doubt TD would have stepped away. His ego was bent on proving the Steelers wrong, not on shaming Ralph Wilson. TD had already offered the GM job to Tom Modrak, so giving up some power was not something he was necessarily opposed to.

 

In the end, I am sure that TD will be hired somewhere else in the next season or two. It sounds as though he was genuinely shocked, and humbled by his firing in Buffalo. I would bet he succeeds in his next job....

[C.Biscuit97]

I admit that I was one who was fooled by the flash of TD. He talked a good game and was always making a slash - whether through free agency or the draft. No matter what everyone people thought of TD, he definitely didn't fail because of lack of effort. He tried to make the right moves, but in short, he just made bad choices. Rather than hire coaches who were part of championship teams (Weis, Lewis, or Crennel) or proven head coaches (Fassel), he went for the hot interview guy. Obviously, these were mistakes.

As for the draft, he always had to make the big flashy move. Obviously if Mike Williams worked out the way most people thought, the TD era probably would have been a much different ending. So I don't really blame TD for this. But in my opinion, he's two biggest mistakes were the two Miami guys, Willis and Roscoe. Willis is one of our best players and can become very special. So my problem is not with Willis but rather the drafting of a running back. This was an 8-8 football team with a pretty good and former 2nd round rb. While Henry had his short comings, a pick of a lineman, either offensive or defensive, that could have stepped in right away really could have benefitted this team. Instead, he drafted a player that wouldn't help for a year and basically killed all the confidence Henry had. As for Roscoe, I like the guy. But really what was his plan with him? It was our first pick in the draft and there just seems to be too little of a role for Roscoe on this team. And Marv (in the only move I really disagree on this offseason) compounded this mistake of a pick by re-signing Josh Reed. Personally, I think it was time for Reed to go and let Parrish step in. But in short, TD spent our first pick in the 2005 draft on a punt returner and 4th wr at best. That's just awful.

In short, TD definitely worked hard and tried his best. However, being a gambler, sometimes you get burned. If Williams worked out and Bledsoe was more consistent, we all would have praise TD as a genius. Unfortunately, his same confidence ultimately burned him. The TD era of the Bills can best be described as a lot of style, but overall, very little substance.