For all the Vincent Haters

[R. Rich]

He's small and not physical enough for me. I want a hard hitter back there. This team has been lacking some toughness in the secondary for a few years now. I would not be afraid of Troy Vincent going across the middle to catch a pass. I don't think he puts any fear into the WR's in the NFL anymore.

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If only you could have Vincent's character and mindset in the body of Sean Taylor, huh?

[Dawgg]

Let's go at this again. Your points and my rebuttals follow:

 

1. TV led the team in INTs and FRs.

 

He was tied for the lead for INTs with 4 and had 2 fumble recoveries. Not exactly scintillating stats, especially considering the bulk of those came in one game and the D was among the league's worst. Half of his INTs came in the season opener against the lowly Texans.

 

What doesn't show up in the stats is missed tackles. There were numerous opportunities in which he was just flat out beat... considering most opposing receivers made a living running around in the Bills' secondary, 66 tackles is rather low.

 

2a. His value as a teacher

 

Make him a coach but there's no reason to carry him on the roster. At the VERY best, he can be a second-string player... but that's an awfully expensive for a reserve.

 

2b. Ralph wants to win now

 

Really??? Judging by the moves made this season does it seem to you like the team is planning to make a Super Bowl push in the next 2 years?

 

3. TV's union presidency having an effect on the decision to keep him

 

I think this is really stretching it. TV's role in the union has no effect on the Bills. His job is to look out for the players, not franchises. He has been fairly clear about that in his interviews. In fact, he views all the OTAs as a burden and thinks that NFL players are worked far too hard by their employers (a pitty indeed).

 

4. Switch to Cover 2 plays to his srengths

 

This is your best argument. It all boils down to this -- would you rather have your starter in waiting learn the system by taking his lumps in his first year so that he can be a key performer for years to come OR would you rather have an aging past his prime safety man the position for a year? Personally, I'd rather groom Ko Simpson ASAP -- he was drafted by this regime because they felt he can fit into this system. He is younger and more athletic. I say let him learn.

 

I think part of the backlash against the antiTV sentiment comes from the arguments not being well thought out or motivated by anti-union rather than pro-football sentiments.

 

1. A decision to cut him now means cutting the player who led the team in combined turnovers received last year as he tied for the team lead in both INTs and FRs.  Posts which advocate cutting him seem based in rants about his age (even as a decrepit oldster he surpassed his teammates in turnover production and this fact should be acknowledged and vetted by those advocating cutting him) or his cap figure rather than the realities of his production vis-a-vis other Bills.

 

2. Even those committed to a youth movement seem to ignore:

 

A. The value he can provide to this use as an on-field peer teacher (you want coaches, experience and peer instruction so why rely on only one when you can do all).

 

B. The fact that they may be on a 2-3 year timeline, but likely Ralph who wants to put butts in the seats as a businessman and ain't gettin younger almost certainly wants to win as much as he can right now.

 

3. The anti-union stuff is peripheral for the most part to whether he should be on this football team which is best governed by performance (again even if he is getting old, he turnover production is best on the team). In fact. to the extent his union presidency is relevant at all it all argues toward keeping him:

 

A. He is an acknowledged and respected leader by his peers on a young team which will want and need leadership.

B. The NFLPA is a partner with the team owners (and arguably the majority partner given the way total revenues are divided in the new CBA).  There will be neogtiations  and ultimately agreement between these partners over issues of dispute, but retaliatory actions by team owners against the NFLPA is old thinking as the new thinking of cooperation has resulted in massive profits for all parties of the NFL.

C. If there is any sense that the Bills and Ralph are in fact using the game to retaliate against the NFLPA, there is a significant risk that this will undercut our ability to sign  the best FAs.

 

4. The switch to the Cover 2 from the zonr blitz plays to TV's strengths and not only makes it essential not to cut him this year but amazingly may even extend his career as a Bill  a year after that.

 

Cutting TV may make anti-union folk happy (the unions are so weak it is counter intuitve in the first place to identify them as a leading problem in society, the union movement has not led anything since the late 60s or early 70s) butit would likely be a bad idea in terms of football performance for this team.

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[Spiderweb]

There's a bit of humor mixed in w/ sarcasm in Ramius' post, but it does ring true.

 

This place has gotten bogged down in a mob mentality lately.  Everything and everyone sucks according to the mob, and they'll turn their pitchforks and torches on you if you disagree w/ them.  That mentality has driven many long time posters away from here, whether they choose to post sparingly or just leave altogether.  It's really too bad that people can't agree to disagree on things, it's either "all or nothing; agree w/ me or you're an idiot". 

 

I'm sure a lot of this comes from watching our team struggle year after year.  I know I wasn't thrilled @ the way the Levy era started, as Marv and Ralph seemed clueless and not on the same page, but I think they're getting on the right track.  Whether or not we all agree on the plan they had during the draft, the fact that they HAD a plan was comforting to me.  I don't expect this team to transform into a champion overnight, so I realize there will be difficult times.  All I hope is that they work toward the end of those times.

708853[/snapback]

 

OK, that does it. You're next..........

 

Ah, a voice of reason and wisdom. Not much of this going on around here of late.

Thanks RR.