More Insight as to Why Younger Folks...

[ACor58]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!  Most of your tax dollars go to ensure nice salaries and benefits for state, county, city, and village workers.  It's the only jobs left you can live on.

 

PTR

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When times get tough, private industry tightens the belts and decreases spending, with many employees going without raises for several years at a time, yet working longer hours.

 

Yet these scumbags that sit on there @sses and work for the State are gauranteed a raise every year, regardless of how fuggin worthless that they really are. It makes me sick.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!  Most of your tax dollars go to ensure nice salaries and benefits for state, county, city, and village workers.  It's the only jobs left you can live on.

 

PTR

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You do realize you've made the most compelling argument AGAINST tax and spend, yes?

[Arkady Renko]

This thread is funny...it's written by a bunch of people who are capable of changing their government yet don't.  Stop complaining about your government and do something about it.  It takes more than complaining to make change, get involved in a real way not just in a coffee clotch.  Go organize people yourself, don't wait for others to do it.  If your state senator and state rep suck, find a better candidate or run yourself.  If you've read this far and are shaking your head and/or scoffing at why what I wrote is impossible you have just confirmed that you are part of the problem.  Apathy gets you nothing.

 

Pennsylvania is in the process of voting out almost every incumbent in the legislature.  We've had lots of incumbents not even run for re-election because they were dead in the water. 

 

If you wait for the system to give you change you will wait a long time, you must change the system from within.  get involved or stop whining.

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Isn't the OP pointing out problems with the state in a board with still a lot of NYS voters? He's getting his message out in some small level at least.

 

Besides, it's really silly to tell anyone that you cannot complain about anything in politics in government unless you are going to start organizing grassroots movements and run for office. It's as if you are saying you cannot talk about these things without having a five-point plan to change the political structure in the state.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

I'm 25 and I bought a house last year along with my wife who is 28

 

1) I like my $2000 tax return every February thank you very much!

2) My electric bill last month was like $31.06

3) Don't run with scissors and you wont need workers comp.

4) I am not union...

5) I lost my job at Adelphia May 9th and started a new job May 29th

6) My Property tax is $2198 a year

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My condo out here cost me in the low $300,000 range. Property taxes cost me about $4000 a year. THat same price range in Webster, NY would be around $10,000 a year in prop taxes.

 

What upstate needs is a new industry, becasue right now, they have not much growth.

[Arkady Renko]

One thing that leaders across upstate New York should stop doing is offering these tax-abatements and other incentives to get specific companies to come or stay in the state. Instead, make it simple, just lower taxes and costs for businesses across the board. Let all businesses reap the benefits of lower taxes and not just the ones that hold governments hostage. How many times have we seen cases where a company has located in upstate New York due to some ridiculous tax incentive scheme and leave a few years later.

 

What is disheartening is that I believe there was a vote for a constitutional convention several years ago that was shot down for some reason. I do not know much about it, but I imagine if it was a true convention, then perhaps there could have been real changes to the state government like making a unicameral legislature apportionated by rational geographic borders that could force one party to take full responsibility for the state's success. As it stands now, with a Democratic Assembly and Republican Senate all but guaranteed, each side can just blame the other.

[UnionAMG]

My condo out here cost me in the low $300,000 range. Property taxes cost me about $4000 a year. THat same price range in Webster, NY would be around $10,000 a year in prop taxes.

 

What upstate needs is a new industry, becasue right now, they have not much growth.

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I don't know where you live Elcrusho, but for the sake of argument... a $300,000 residence would be more in property taxes here in WNY, but the house you could buy for 300k is probably twice the size and quality of the 300k you would spend on a condo in other areas of the country.

 

I lived in Boston for the last two years after graduating for college. I moved back to Buffalo three weeks ago and will actually be able to afford a house out here. A one bedroom condo in Boston costs at least 300k, while I can buy a mansion in some of the nicest areas of the region for that money here.

 

It's all relative... the thing that WNY has going for it that other areas dont (and not all people will agree that WNY has it) is high quality of life. Short commute, many things are cheaper (everyday things like groceries), you can go sailing in the summers and skiing in the winters all within a half hour drive. These are just a couple of the things that I missed about Buffalo while I was gone and i'm glad I'm back.

 

Hopefully others will realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side!!!

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

I don't know where you live Elcrusho, but for the sake of argument... a $300,000 residence would be more in property taxes here in WNY, but the house you could buy for 300k is probably twice the size and quality of the 300k you would spend on a condo in other areas of the country.

 

I don't know what you mean by Elcrusho, but of course the house was bigger in NY. My only point was to compare what you pay as it relates to property values and in NY it's higher.

 

Personally, I am never going back. I would rather sit in traffic for an hour and live in LA than live in Rochester and get home in 20 minutes. Different strokes for different folks.

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

This thread is funny...it's written by a bunch of people who are capable of changing their government yet don't.  Stop complaining about your government and do something about it.  It takes more than complaining to make change, get involved in a real way not just in a coffee clotch.  Go organize people yourself, don't wait for others to do it.  If your state senator and state rep suck, find a better candidate or run yourself.  If you've read this far and are shaking your head and/or scoffing at why what I wrote is impossible you have just confirmed that you are part of the problem.  Apathy gets you nothing.

 

Pennsylvania is in the process of voting out almost every incumbent in the legislature.  We've had lots of incumbents not even run for re-election because they were dead in the water. 

 

If you wait for the system to give you change you will wait a long time, you must change the system from within.  get involved or stop whining.

707730[/snapback]

 

The overnight pay-raise increase. They have been raising hell about that for a while now.....what worked was having the pissed off constituents keep at it.

[Ray]

I am amazed at the taxes in NYS. I've actually moved back to NY from Massachusetts. I was absolutely horrified by the property taxes--yes you can buy a home in WNY for 400k, but you pay about 12-14k in property taxes. The taxes in Mass. would be about $2500. Are you telling me the schools and services are that much better in NY than Mass.? They're NOT! NYS should be the best educated, cleanest, safest state with everybody having health insurance for the amount of taxes you pay. I love the people, the lakes, mountains, etc.. but it has just been run into the ground for the past 25 years. It's sad they are so slow to adapt.

[Buffal0 Bill5]

Please define what a "true" conservative is supposed to be.  I think they are called "Libertarians."

 

PTR

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Are Libertarians liberal or conservative?

 

Libertarians are neither. Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. For example, Libertarians agree with conservatives about freedom in economic matters, so we're in favor of lowering taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable -- rather than government -- welfare. But Libertarians also agree with liberals on personal tolerance, so we're in favor of people’s right to choose their own personal habits and lifestyles.

 

In a sense, Libertarians “borrow” from both sides to come up with a logical and consistent whole -- but without the exceptions and broken promises of Republican and Democratic politicians. That's why we call ourselves the Party of Principle.

 

Source, The Libertarian Party

 

The simple point is that NY is a blue state, and will always be a blue state. A candidate such as Rick Santorem would not stand a snowballs chance of being elected here. Then again, he may not in PA either. To me a "true" conservative meant fiscally, and socially conservitave. I don't forsee such a peson ever living in the governor's mansion.

[Tcali]

I am amazed at the taxes in NYS.  I've actually moved back to NY from Massachusetts.  I was absolutely horrified by the property taxes--yes you can buy a home in WNY for 400k, but you pay about 12-14k in property taxes.  The taxes in Mass. would be about $2500.  Are you telling me the schools and services are that much better in NY than Mass.?  They're NOT!  NYS should be the best educated, cleanest, safest state with everybody having health insurance for the amount of taxes you pay.  I love the people, the lakes, mountains, etc..  but it has just been run into the ground for the past 25 years.  It's sad they are so slow to adapt.

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But remember--those property tax rates HAVE TO be charged--because there is not the tax base in Buffalo area to support decent eduactio without it.And as the business drought continues-;--the pressure will continue to keep raising the taxes. When people finally rise up and refuse to pay these taxes---the infrastructure will start collapsing.

The only way out of this is to bring in more industry/business.

[Ray]

Amherst with a population of about 120k doesn't have a big enough tax base? I don't think that explains taxes 4x what you pay in Massachusetts...hardly a low tax state. One major problem as well is the inability to deduct state and property taxes because you get hit with the AMT now. That makes the NYS taxes even more burdensome.

[Griswold]

1) I like my $2000 tax return every February thank you very much!

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Ya. But the YTD taxes witheld was $8000.

 

I love people who report tax returns.

[BoondckCL]

NC State bound right here. That's an 18 year old talking too.

[GG]

but ... ny city has certainly kept pace with the rest of the state in terms of government size, and yet it has boomed in the last decade. go figure. my point: it ain't all about taxes and government size when it comes to business location decisions. if it was then the boston, DC, and bay area metro areas wouldn't have boomed like they did in the past decade. much of it has to do with the industrial milieu and traditions of a region, which in buffalo was heavy industry. another problem that buffalo has faced: unlike, say, detroit, it's not a national headquarters city. it's a regional hq city. when firms shut down an office, it'll always be the regional hq and not the national hq. and while detroit is a mess, the greater detroit area did pretty well throughout the 90s (although that's changing for the worse now, obviously).

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The latter part is the biggest reason why Buffalo is slowly dying. Part of it is the main HQ rationale, the other part is that the entrepreunurial youth is leaving the city for other regions and is contributing to the growth there.

 

The big reasons why NY, Boston & DC haven't failed is that they constantly get the backfill of youngsters (and yes, immigrants), to keep propping up the aging infrastructure & dysfunctional governments. Those three places are cool to live in after graduating from college, and thus the cities succeed despite the city governments' efforts to stunt economic growth.

 

I wonder how many people realize that Rochester has more going for it than Buffalo?

[dave mcbride]

The latter part is the biggest reason why Buffalo is slowly dying.  Part of it is the main HQ rationale, the other part is that the entrepreunurial youth is leaving the city for other regions and is contributing to the growth there. 

 

The big reasons why NY, Boston & DC haven't failed is that they constantly get the backfill of youngsters (and yes, immigrants), to keep propping up the aging infrastructure & dysfunctional governments.  Those three places are cool to live in after graduating from college, and thus the cities succeed despite the city governments' efforts to stunt economic growth.

 

I wonder how many people realize that Rochester has more going for it than Buffalo?

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you're absolutely right, gerry, especially about rochester.

 

re immigrants, my wife's comment is that despite the popularity of the immigrant song in buffalo (where it's played probably 15 times a day on the radio), the immigrants haven't come (and to buffalo's loss).

[GG]

you're absolutely right, gerry, especially about rochester.

 

re immigrants, my wife's comment is that despite the popularity of the immigrant song in buffalo (where it's played probably 15 times a day on the radio),

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And there you nailed the true allure of Buffalo. It's like I never left in 1982.

[Marv's Neighbor]

NYS really started to go down the hole after Nelson & Happy Rockefeller left!

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

Isn't the OP pointing out problems with the state in a board with still a lot of NYS voters? He's getting his message out in some small level at least.

 

Besides, it's really silly to tell anyone that you cannot complain about anything in politics in government unless you are going to start organizing grassroots movements and run for office. It's as if you are saying you cannot talk about these things without having a five-point plan to change the political structure in the state.

707821[/snapback]

Yeah, but all most people do is complain to themselves or people they know. even the ones who actually show up to vote. There aren't really THAT many people who take the time to contact their representatives or the leadership of their particular party or anything like that. They show up, complain that both people are the same, pull a lever then put their head back in the sand until the following November.

 

The politicians WILL listen to you, they don't get any kickbacks, graft or PAC money if they lose the election. You just have to convince them that there are a lot of you. It's embarassing that Giambra has been allowed to stay on as a lame duck. Why haven't the people risen up and DEMANDED that he resign? Take advantage of your gov't/union status. You're really hard to fire and I'll bet that if all those workers went on strike (I know that's illegal in NY, be creative...rotating blue flus etc.) until he quit he'd leave pretty fast, where are the picketers in front of the Rath Bldg? How about in front of his house? Nope, can't have that we'll just sit around with our thumbs in our dark places and complain that there isn't anything that can be done...clearly that's better.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

The simple point is that NY is a blue state, and will always be a blue state.  A candidate such as Rick Santorem would not stand a snowballs chance of being elected here.  Then again, he may not in PA either.  To me a "true" conservative meant  fiscally, and socially conservitave.  I don't forsee such a peson ever living in the governor's mansion.

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PA's a blue state too, democratic governor and went against W twice, but I'll bet you money right now that not only does Santorum win this fall, but that he runs for at least VP in 2008. The religious right (i.e. the entire state except Philly and Pittsburgh) loves him.