More Insight as to Why Younger Folks...

[Dr. Trooth]

This is to add insight into the NY Times article which Dave McBride linked us to.

 

Some facts about NYS...

 

1) Highest tax burden of any state. Nearly $5300 for every man, woman and child.

(to get some perspective, California's tax burden is $3800 for every man, woman, and child)

2) NYS has the highest electricity costs in the continental US @11.8 cents per KW hr. Only Hawaii is higher. The National avg. is 7.2 cents

3) The cost for Workers Compensation Insurance in this state is triple the cost in any other state. Yes, this state is a treasure trove for trial lawyers... the folks at Alexander and Catalano are heavy hitters and they are on your side... they will get you the money you deserve.

4) One of every 4 jobs is a union job... twice the national average.

5) NYS has the slowest job growth rate of any state except for Maine, NH, and Vermont.

6) Property taxes have doubled, and even tripled in some regions of NYS in the past 10 years.

 

There are more tidbits that I could throw out to you... but this is depressing enough.

OK, so ask yourself this question... why would any business or corporation want to locate in NYS? The answer is no business that wants to make a reasonable profit. The costs are simply too high.

 

So, what is the problem? Simple, you have a dysfunctional and corrupt state government... basically the senate and assembly are not going to stand up to the union lobby and the trial lawyer lobby. That's who get the politicians elected and then pays them off. The cost of living in this state will continue to rise and the exodus of our youth will continue on to greener pastures. Eliot Spitzer, our next governor will not change this. I've never known a NY Democrat to reduce spending and cut taxes. He can't, or won't, stand up to Sheldon Silver and Jim Bruno. And even if he does, these two political scumbags will only be replaced by some other "downstaters" who don't give a camel turd about "upstate". Remember this... There are approximately 18 million New Yorkers. 10-11 million of them live within 75 miles of NYC. The rest live in upstate. In an election, downtate votes one way and upstate votes another way... and downstate always wins and will continue to win.

 

I'm a lifelonf NYS (upstate) resifdent and I had a serious moment of reflection a year ago. No matter how emmotional I am attached to this region, I reached a painful and agonizing conclusion after realistically looking at everything in total... and that is this... New York State is done! Finished, as we know and knew it.

[zonabb]

Well, this is all common knowledge, at least to me being an urban planner and having an education that included public policy. But what I will say, since you're obviously a Republican or at least anti-Democrat is that despite your claim that no Democrat you know cuts spending, the current Governor, a Republican, can't claim it either. In fact, during his reign of terror, we've increased spending continually, raised SUNY tuition to the point where our local high school students now actually can attend private schools with even the most minor scholarships because SUNY costs are so high. Oh, and you can thank the governor and his staff got the 35% raise the NYS Troopers got since 9/11. You'll be happy to know that in two successive contracts, the 5-year trooper salary went from about $48,000 a year (very high for upstate based troopers) to $73,000. That's a lot of money to patrol the back woods of Orleans and Genesee county at 3 a.m. No degree required. So imagine who else got whopping raise.

 

I can sum up the waste and stupidity of NY in one example.... we have crew that mow and spread weed killer along all our major highways. Saw them putting weed killer down this morning along all the guard rails just east if the Williamsville toll barrier. Yeah, that's money well spent. One guy in a $100,000 tractor spraying weed killer every 20 feet while one guy in a $100,000 dump truck crawls behind with blinking lights. Very cost effective. Because when I drive the thruway at 65 MPH, I want a freshly mowed median and no weeds. And I want a union guy with a GED making $30 an hour to do it.

 

Everyday I look for a job out of state, someday soon, I'll leave this wasteland behind as I encourage every single NYer to do.

[MattyT]

Everyday I look for a job out of state, someday soon, I'll leave this wasteland behind as I encourage every single NYer to do.

707645[/snapback]

Shows the sad state of affairs that we're in when even the urban planners want to leave the area. You would think that western NY would be fertile ground for that job field.

 

DOOOMED!!!

 

By the way...what kinds of projects do you work on? I was considering going to UB for a career change in the urban planning/architecture program.

[Alaska Darin]

Well, this is all common knowledge, at least to me being an urban planner and having an education that included public policy. But what I will say, since you're obviously a Republican or at least anti-Democrat is that despite your claim that no Democrat you know cuts spending, the current Governor, a Republican, can't claim it either. In fact, during his reign of terror, we've increased spending continually, raised SUNY tuition to the point where our local high school students now actually can attend private schools with even the most minor scholarships because SUNY costs are so high. Oh, and you can thank the governor and his staff got the 35% raise the NYS Troopers got since 9/11. You'll be happy to know that in two successive contracts, the 5-year trooper salary went from about $48,000 a year (very high for upstate based troopers) to $73,000. That's a lot of money to patrol the back woods of Orleans and Genesee county at 3 a.m. No degree required. So imagine who else got whopping raise. 

 

I can sum up the waste and stupidity of NY in one example.... we have crew that mow and spread weed killer along all our major highways. Saw them putting weed killer down this morning along all the guard rails just east if the Williamsville toll barrier. Yeah, that's money well spent. One guy in a $100,000 tractor spraying weed killer every 20 feet while one guy in a $100,000 dump truck crawls behind with blinking lights. Very cost effective. Because when I drive the thruway at 65 MPH, I want a freshly mowed median and no weeds. And I want a union guy with a GED making $30 an hour to do it.

 

Everyday I look for a job out of state, someday soon, I'll leave this wasteland behind as I encourage every single NYer to do.

707645[/snapback]

Pataki is another Republican in Name Only. He's about as conservative as Ted Kennedy. NYS continues to get exactly what it deserves.

[Lurker]

You would think that western NY would be fertile ground for that job field.

707651[/snapback]

 

Without funding to actually do anything, urban planning is an exercise in futility in WNY.

[Bill from NYC]

Oh, and you can thank the governor and his staff got the 35% raise the NYS Troopers got since 9/11. You'll be happy to know that in two successive contracts, the 5-year trooper salary went from about $48,000 a year (very high for upstate based troopers) to $73,000.

707645[/snapback]

 

Your numbers are little weird, wouldn't you say?

 

I do realize that you said "about" $48,000, but 48,000 x 1.35 equals $64,800 from where I sit. Do you have anything to back up these claims?

 

Also, how much of the increased costs at SUNY were allocated to raises to professors? They probably are paid comparable salaries to Ivy League professors. Is this, but not the salary of police officers OK?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Pataki is another Republican in Name Only.  He's about as conservative as Ted Kennedy.  NYS continues to get exactly what it deserves.

707658[/snapback]

 

What's even worse about this is that, barring a miracle, Eliot Spitzer will be elected governor this fall.

 

And one of his big campaign promises is to hire more government workers.

 

Never underestimate the stupidity of the New York State voter.

[erynthered]

 

Never underestimate the stupidity of the New York State voter.

707683[/snapback]

 

 

That's why Hilary moved to NY.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Also, how much of the increased costs at SUNY were allocated to raises to professors? They probably are paid comparable salaries to Ivy League professors. Is this, but not the salary of police officers OK?

707664[/snapback]

Bill, where are you getting your information from? I went to the AAUP survey of salaries and, while SUNY salaries at the university centers (Albany, UB, Stony Brook) compare well with some of the private U's, they are nowhere near (like 40-70K+ less than) what Ivy Leaguers pay their full professors. And this is all to ignore the fact that a lot of these universities are cutting costs and hiring more adjuncts for around $2-4 grand A CLASS, per semester -- as in, people are teaching college level and making below poverty level. At the same time they offer less professorships, especially the full professor positions that really command the big bucks.

 

Asst profs and associate profs are making salaries pretty consistent with the rest of the state and country, and they along with the huge number of adjuncts make up most of the teaching body.

 

Let's not make what should be a viable criticism of the institution and the state a witch hunt on teachers OR cops.

[Dr. Trooth]

Everyday I look for a job out of state, someday soon, I'll leave this wasteland behind as I encourage every single NYer to do.

 

I am doing the same.

 

Also... FYI... any new NYS Trooper must have a 4 yr. degree.

 

As far as the Democrat/Republican thingy...it matters not... and Spitzer will be as irrelevant as Pataki. And historically Dem's do not cut spending nor taxes. Last time I checked, Spitzer was a Dem... so, business as usual in Albany. They will all thump their chests and tell you what a great job they're doing as things get worse and worse.

 

Bottom line... we have two states... Downstate and upstate. Two very different states. One tends to vote liberal and the other more conservative. Downstate always wins because they have more voters.

 

Just a reminder... if you happen to be the last upstater to leave the state, please remember to turn out the lights... at 11.8 cents per kw hour, it can get expensive.

[dave mcbride]

This is to add insight into the NY Times article which Dave McBride linked us to.

 

Some facts about NYS...

 

1) Highest tax burden of any state.  Nearly $5300 for every man, woman and child.

(to get some perspective, California's tax burden is $3800 for every man, woman, and child)

2) NYS has the highest electricity costs in the continental US @11.8 cents per KW hr.  Only Hawaii is higher.  The National avg. is 7.2 cents

3) The cost for Workers Compensation Insurance in this state is triple the cost in any other state.  Yes, this state is a treasure trove for trial lawyers... the folks at Alexander and Catalano are heavy hitters and they are on your side... they will get you the money you deserve.

4) One of every 4 jobs is a union job... twice the national average.

5) NYS has the slowest job growth rate of any state except for Maine, NH, and Vermont.

6) Property taxes have doubled, and even tripled in some regions of NYS in the past 10 years.

 

There are more tidbits that I could throw out to you... but this is depressing enough.

OK, so ask yourself this question... why would any business or corporation want to locate in NYS?  The answer is no business that wants to make a reasonable profit.  The costs are simply too high.

 

So, what is the problem?  Simple, you have a dysfunctional and corrupt state government... basically the senate and assembly are not going to stand up to the union lobby and the trial lawyer lobby.  That's who get the politicians elected and then pays them off. The cost of living in this state will continue to rise and the exodus of our youth will continue on to greener pastures.  Eliot Spitzer, our next governor will not change this. I've never known a NY Democrat to reduce spending and cut taxes.  He can't, or won't, stand up to Sheldon Silver and Jim Bruno.  And even if he does, these two political scumbags will only be replaced by some other "downstaters" who don't give a camel turd about "upstate".  Remember this... There are approximately 18 million New Yorkers.  10-11 million of them live within 75 miles of NYC.  The rest live in upstate.  In an election, downtate votes one way and upstate votes another way... and downstate always wins and will continue to win.

 

I'm a lifelonf NYS (upstate) resifdent and I had a serious moment of reflection a year  ago.  No matter how emmotional I am attached to this region, I reached a painful and agonizing conclusion after realistically looking at everything in total... and that is this...  New York State is done!  Finished, as we know and knew it.

707640[/snapback]

but ... ny city has certainly kept pace with the rest of the state in terms of government size, and yet it has boomed in the last decade. go figure. my point: it ain't all about taxes and government size when it comes to business location decisions. if it was then the boston, DC, and bay area metro areas wouldn't have boomed like they did in the past decade. much of it has to do with the industrial milieu and traditions of a region, which in buffalo was heavy industry. another problem that buffalo has faced: unlike, say, detroit, it's not a national headquarters city. it's a regional hq city. when firms shut down an office, it'll always be the regional hq and not the national hq. and while detroit is a mess, the greater detroit area did pretty well throughout the 90s (although that's changing for the worse now, obviously).

[dave mcbride]

Your numbers are little weird, wouldn't you say?

 

  I do realize that you said "about" $48,000, but 48,000 x 1.35 equals $64,800 from where I sit. Do you have anything to back up these claims?

 

  Also, how much of the increased costs at SUNY were allocated to raises to professors? They probably are paid comparable salaries to Ivy League professors. Is this, but not the salary of police officers OK?

707664[/snapback]

25 years ago, suny profs made close to what top tier private school profs did. not anymore though, and it's not even close. the top private institutions are killing public universities in terms of what they can offer.

[Buffal0 Bill5]

Pataki is another Republican in Name Only.  He's about as conservative as Ted Kennedy.  NYS continues to get exactly what it deserves.

707658[/snapback]

A true Conservative elected in NYS, yeah, that will be the day.

[kegtapr]

You'll be happy to know that in two successive contracts, the 5-year trooper salary went from about $48,000 a year (very high for upstate based troopers) to $73,000. That's a lot of money to patrol the back woods of Orleans and Genesee county at 3 a.m.

707645[/snapback]

 

http://www.10nbc.com/news.asp?template=item&story_id=19132

 

http://www.star-gazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/.../606130309/1001

 

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/p...80356/1002/NEWS

 

Yeah, those bastards don't deserve that kind of compensation.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

This thread is funny...it's written by a bunch of people who are capable of changing their government yet don't. Stop complaining about your government and do something about it. It takes more than complaining to make change, get involved in a real way not just in a coffee clotch. Go organize people yourself, don't wait for others to do it. If your state senator and state rep suck, find a better candidate or run yourself. If you've read this far and are shaking your head and/or scoffing at why what I wrote is impossible you have just confirmed that you are part of the problem. Apathy gets you nothing.

 

Pennsylvania is in the process of voting out almost every incumbent in the legislature. We've had lots of incumbents not even run for re-election because they were dead in the water.

 

If you wait for the system to give you change you will wait a long time, you must change the system from within. get involved or stop whining.

[elcrusho]

I'm 25 and I bought a house last year along with my wife who is 28

 

1) I like my $2000 tax return every February thank you very much!

2) My electric bill last month was like $31.06

3) Don't run with scissors and you wont need workers comp.

4) I am not union...

5) I lost my job at Adelphia May 9th and started a new job May 29th

6) My Property tax is $2198 a year

[PromoTheRobot]

A true Conservative elected in NYS, yeah, that will be the day.

707726[/snapback]

Please define what a "true" conservative is supposed to be. I think they are called "Libertarians."

 

PTR

[Lurker]

This thread is funny...it's written by a bunch of people who are capable of changing their government yet don't. 

707730[/snapback]

 

Given that (1) typical voter turnout for state & local elections is only about 50%, and (2) state and local government employees and their spouses -- who have a vested interest in voting for the status quo -- make up nearly 20% of the voting age population in upstate NY, the deck is largely stacked against meaningful change.

 

Then again, there's always hope...

[mead107]

Well, this is all common knowledge, at least to me being an urban planner and having an education that included public policy. But what I will say, since you're obviously a Republican or at least anti-Democrat is that despite your claim that no Democrat you know cuts spending, the current Governor, a Republican, can't claim it either. In fact, during his reign of terror, we've increased spending continually, raised SUNY tuition to the point where our local high school students now actually can attend private schools with even the most minor scholarships because SUNY costs are so high. Oh, and you can thank the governor and his staff got the 35% raise the NYS Troopers got since 9/11. You'll be happy to know that in two successive contracts, the 5-year trooper salary went from about $48,000 a year (very high for upstate based troopers) to $73,000. That's a lot of money to patrol the back woods of Orleans and Genesee county at 3 a.m. No degree required. So imagine who else got whopping raise. 

 

I can sum up the waste and stupidity of NY in one example.... we have crew that mow and spread weed killer along all our major highways. Saw them putting weed killer down this morning along all the guard rails just east if the Williamsville toll barrier. Yeah, that's money well spent. One guy in a $100,000 tractor spraying weed killer every 20 feet while one guy in a $100,000 dump truck crawls behind with blinking lights. Very cost effective. Because when I drive the thruway at 65 MPH, I want a freshly mowed median and no weeds. And I want a union guy with a GED making $30 an hour to do it.

 

Everyday I look for a job out of state, someday soon, I'll leave this wasteland behind as I encourage every single NYer to do.

707645[/snapback]

get a job with the state if you want to make 30 dollars per hr

[PromoTheRobot]

get a job with the state if you want to make 30 dollars per hr

707757[/snapback]

WE HAVE A WINNER!! Most of your tax dollars go to ensure nice salaries and benefits for state, county, city, and village workers. It's the only jobs left you can live on.

 

PTR