the flight from buffalo by young people

[Max997]

I was in Rochester for the first time last year and I dont mean to offend anyone but it is without a doubt the gloomiest place on earth.

 

Its not a young persons place either, not a lot of places to hang out and really isnt booming economically which is probably the main reason why people are leaving. You have to go where the jobs are and with the exception of Xerox and kodak what else is there.

 

Living in South Jersey I am forced to travel across the bridge to PA for decent employment. At some point I know i am going to have to move I am just putting it off as long as I can

[ACor58]

I was in Rochester for the first time last year and I dont mean to offend anyone but it is without a doubt the gloomiest place on earth.

 

Its not a young persons place either, not a lot of places to hang out and really isnt booming economically which is probably the main reason why people are leaving. You have to go where the jobs are and with the exception of Xerox and kodak what else is there.

 

Living in South Jersey I am forced to travel across the bridge to PA for decent employment. At some point I know i am going to have to move I am just putting it off as long as I can

708232[/snapback]

 

Max, I live in Rochester, and while it will not be confused with NYC, LA, or Chicago, to call it gloomy is off. There is actually quite a bit to do, especially nightlife if you are a young person. While the weeknights are not great, their is a lot happening on the weekends. It all depends when you were here and who you were with.

 

As far as the jobs go, I cannot argue with you. While the Kodaks and Xerox's are not hiring like they used to, there are a lot of smaller hi tech firms around, just not enough to keep up with the rest of the country.

[ACor58]

In the grand scheme of things, outsourcing to India is still a tiny slice of our economy.  

 

The problem isn't the jobs that are moving, its the jobs that aren't being created.   Have the excellent Universities of Upstate New York produced the equivalent of a Dell (U of TX), or a Google (Stanford)?    Why not?

 

JDG

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If you consider all of the technology that Xerox (they invented the mouse and the GUI, then gave it to Steve Jobs) and Kodak have given away because they thought that film and copiers would rule the world forever, Rochester would be a different place.

[kegtapr]

I was in Rochester for the first time last year and I dont mean to offend anyone but it is without a doubt the gloomiest place on earth.

 

Its not a young persons place either, not a lot of places to hang out and really isnt booming economically which is probably the main reason why people are leaving. You have to go where the jobs are and with the exception of Xerox and kodak what else is there.

 

Living in South Jersey I am forced to travel across the bridge to PA for decent employment. At some point I know i am going to have to move I am just putting it off as long as I can

708232[/snapback]

 

The sad part is it's the gem of western NY.

[RuntheDamnBall]

The sad part is it's the gem of western NY.

708283[/snapback]

I'd disagree. I've never felt the desire to visit Rochester after having gone there a few times. It feels to me like a city with little character surrounded by a lot of suburbia that has nothing to do with the city. And in a really fine city, the people who keep it going want to stay there or spend time there, as they do in NYC, SF, etc.

 

I wouldn't say Buffalo's like this in every way, but it does beat Rochester, Syracuse and Albany in terms of attractions, proximity to really nice natural areas, classic architecture, and the Bills close by (though Albany is close enough to the Adirondacks). If you ask me, though, WNY's gem is nature itself. The area would do well to protect it and, where necessary, resurrect it, at all costs.

 

WNY could also do more to attract art and artists -- it has helped Portland a lot in terms of bringing in young people.

[PromoTheRobot]

I'd disagree.  I've never felt the desire to visit Rochester after having gone there a few times.  It feels to me like a city with little character surrounded by a lot of suburbia that has nothing to do with the city.  And in a really fine city, the people who keep it going want to stay there or spend time there, as they do in NYC, SF, etc.

 

I wouldn't say Buffalo's like this in every way, but it does beat Rochester, Syracuse and Albany in terms of attractions, proximity to really nice natural areas, classic architecture, and the Bills close by (though Albany is close enough to the Adirondacks).  If you ask me, though, WNY's gem is nature itself.  The area would do well to protect it and, where necessary, resurrect it, at all costs.

 

WNY could also do more to attract art and artists -- it has helped Portland a lot in terms of bringing in young people.

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I don't know what parts of Rochester you visited, but neighborhoods like East Ave., Park Ave, the South Wedge, Corn Hill, etc. are gorgeous urban villages with stately homes and tree-lined streets. The corners are dotted with cafes, taverns, and little boutique shops. How is that "gloomy????"

 

PTR

[RuntheDamnBall]

I don't know what parts of Rochester you visited, but neighborhoods like East Ave., Park Ave, the South Wedge, Corn Hill, etc. are gorgeous urban villages with stately homes and tree-lined streets.  The corners are dotted with cafes, taverns, and little boutique shops.  How is that "gloomy????"

 

PTR

708310[/snapback]

I definitely must have missed those neighborhoods. If I'm there again, I'll have to check them out.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Graduated from Niagara U in 1969, when the BILLS still trained there, and I left in 1970!

 

N VA 1970-1978, Seattle 1978-1980, Chicago 1980-1982, Houston 1982-1986 ( the worst of the them all ) back to Seattle 1986-2003, Williamsburg VA. 2003-2004 Chester VA. 2004-???

 

When we left Seattle, we couild have come back to BUF, but decided against it due to TAXES!

 

Having lived in 2 states where there is no state income tax, Texas & Washington, they make it up in many other ways including car taxes, 9% sales tax, high property taxes, etc. so they are not inexpensive!

 

Everyplace has their unique governmental problems but NYS and Erie County stand out at the top! I'm not bashing them, because that's my home, but having said that, I don't see any meaningful change in the future and apparently a lot of other people the same way.

[JDG]

Graduated from Niagara U in 1969, when the BILLS still trained there, and I left in 1970!

 

N VA 1970-1978, Seattle 1978-1980, Chicago 1980-1982, Houston 1982-1986 ( the worst of the them all ) back to Seattle 1986-2003, Williamsburg VA. 2003-2004 Chester VA. 2004-???

 

When we left Seattle, we couild have come back to BUF, but decided against it due to TAXES!

 

Having lived in 2 states where there is no state income tax, Texas & Washington, they make it up in many other ways including car taxes, 9% sales tax, high property taxes, etc. so they are not inexpensive!

 

Everyplace has their unique governmental problems but NYS and Erie County stand out at the top!  I'm not bashing them, because that's my home, but having said that, I don't see any meaningful change in the future and apparently a lot of other people the same way.

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Yes, other States make up for it - but in 2004 New Yorkers paid more state and local taxes per person than any State in the Union.... $4684 for every man,

woman, and child. Connecticut was #2 at $4441. Washington is at $3347 and Texas comes in at $2829.

 

JDG

[Arkady Renko]

Yes, other States make up for it - but in 2004 New Yorkers paid more state and local taxes per person than any State in the Union.... $4684 for every man,

woman, and child.  Connecticut was #2 at $4441.  Washington is at $3347 and  Texas comes in at $2829. 

 

JDG

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I think I saw a recent ranking that had NYS down to 9th, but maybe that was based on a different criteria.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/13/nyregion...artner=homepage

707553[/snapback]

 

Thing that amazed me most about that article was the NYT actually admitting in writing that there's counties north of Putnam.

[Lurker]

I think I saw a recent ranking that had NYS down to 9th, but maybe that was based on a different criteria.

709585[/snapback]

 

Here's the latest rankings...

[sdevo]

Here's the latest rankings...

709634[/snapback]

 

 

Its not even close! $339

[fitnbills]

I was in Rochester for the first time last year and I dont mean to offend anyone but it is without a doubt the gloomiest place on earth.

 

Its not a young persons place either, not a lot of places to hang out and really isnt booming economically which is probably the main reason why people are leaving. You have to go where the jobs are and with the exception of Xerox and kodak what else is there.

 

Living in South Jersey I am forced to travel across the bridge to PA for decent employment. At some point I know i am going to have to move I am just putting it off as long as I can

708232[/snapback]

 

 

I echo your comment. I grew up in Rochester my entire life and moved to Northern VA(Metro DC) a little over a year ago. There is absolutely no comparing the two.

 

The biggest thing that stands out is the cost of living. I miss that about Rochester. Along with the food that Rochester and Buffalo areas have. The traffic is crazy here. I miss being able to travel to any part of the city within 20 minutes.

 

But the things I don't miss is the nightlife. Rochester is really a GREAT place if your older, married with kids and already established. But for young single people who aren't yet established and looking for fun with a nightlife and to began a career it's simply not the place to be.

 

But to my understanding the same can be said for Syracuse, Buffalo, Albany and the rest of WNY. From what I'm told Rochester actually has more going on than the rest of them aside from maybe Buffalo(only b/c of the Bills, Sabres and Canada)

 

If only I could move the city closer to a major metropolitan area. I do miss the food alot. Sals Birdland, Country Sweet, Bill Grays, Tom Whals, Jim and Ralphs... and in Buffalo Lanovas, Anchor Bar.

[sweet baboo]

But the things I don't miss is the nightlife. Rochester is really a GREAT place if your older, married with kids and already established. But for young single people who aren't yet established and looking for fun with a nightlife and to began a career it's simply not the place to be.

 

But to my understanding the same can be said for Syracuse, Buffalo, Albany and the rest of WNY. From what I'm told Rochester actually has more going on than the rest of them aside from maybe Buffalo(only b/c of the Bills, Sabres and Canada)

709647[/snapback]

the nightlife here is fine...same can be said for Buffalo

unless you've got a rich daddy that can pay for you to go out and party your ass off everynight like people do in LA or NYC, the nightlife here is perfect

I have zero complaints about finding things to do here...the bullstevestojan about "NYC, the city never sleeps" is nothing but crap...so what if they city doesn't sleep? you need to sleep at some point! and if you have a regular job, you're not going to be painting the town red on weekdays

 

you're absolutely right about this being an awful place to start a career though...start where? there's dick here

[fitnbills]

the nightlife here is fine...same can be said for Buffalo

unless you've got a rich daddy that can pay for you to go out and party your ass off everynight like people do in LA or NYC, the nightlife here is perfect

I have zero complaints about finding things to do here...the bullstevestojan about "NYC, the city never sleeps" is nothing but crap...so what if they city doesn't sleep? you need to sleep at some point! and if you have a regular job, you're not going to be painting the town red on weekdays

 

you're absolutely right about this being an awful place to start a career though...start where? there's dick here

709653[/snapback]

 

 

Yea, I guess my problem is if I want to go out on a midweek day in Rochester I don't have many options. And I would prefer options. I hate how it seems like everyone knows everyone. If I go out this weekend in rochester, then again next weekend i'll see the same faces. I just like the variety that some of the larger metro areas offer.

[Arkady Renko]

Here's the latest rankings...

709634[/snapback]

From the Census.gov, taxes per capita.

 

2004: NY # 10 http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/05staxrank.html

2005: NY # 11 http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/04staxrank.html

 

I will trust the data from the Cenus Bureau more than I will trust the interpretation from a third party.

[Lurker]

From the Census.gov, taxes per capita.

 

2004: NY # 10 http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/05staxrank.html

2005: NY # 11 http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/04staxrank.html

 

I will trust the data from the Cenus Bureau more than I will trust the interpretation from a third party.

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Those Census tables don't factor in LOCAL TAXES...which are by FAR the biggest problem for upstate residents.

 

New York's state-only taxes actually are not that out of line, since Albany off-loads a lot of spending on localities via unfunded mandates and under-funded school aid.

 

New York ranks near the top among all states in terms of the share of total school funding paid for by local property taxes...another way the NYC rent control croud gives the shaft to upstate residents.

 

Combined State + Local Taxes is what the Business Council ranking shows. Not much interpretation needed, unfortunately.

[JDG]

From the US Census Bureau, per capita statistics:

 

State & Local taxes combined:

NY #1 at $5260 per capita. (#2, CT - $4921)

 

State & Local expenditures:

NY #2 (#1 is AK, thanks to oil revenue)

 

Welfare Spending:

NY #1 (AK is #2, again - oil, NY is spending 17% more per person than #3 RI.)

 

Education:

NY is #4 in Education spending per person, but is #50 in education fees received per person.

 

Salaries and Wages:

NY is #3 in spending on salaries on wages, behind AK (oil) and DE (home of corporate governance in the US.)

 

Utilities:

NY is #3 in spending on Utilities - how this is true for the State that has Niagara Falls is very mystifying to me.

 

It seems to me that NY State and Local governments are attempting to provide the cadillac of governmental services, while the average people are voting with their feet and going elsewhere.

 

JDG

[sdevo]

It seems to me that NY State and Local governments are attempting to provide the cadillac of governmental services, while the average people are voting with their feet and going elsewhere.

 

 

So many people are riding on the wagon no one is left to pull it.