finknottle Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I shudder to initiate a topic which will inevitably turn into a JP is great/is crap thread, but I have a question about the following blurb from The Sporting News.: INSIDE DISH: Some people in the organization believe QB J.P. Losman has benefited from having to win the starting job instead of having it handed to him like last year. The team is pleased to see him respond to the challenge of trying to beat out Kelly Holcomb and Craig Nall. Losman is working much harder, throwing the ball with accuracy and has shown more maturity than he displayed last season. His decision making still needs to be more consistent, but he could win the starting job in training camp if he continues to improve and finds a comfort zone in the new offense. Love him or hate him, did anybody suggest that he didn't work hard enough in the offseason last year? He was billed at the time as really hitting the books, working super hard at the camps, etc. Was that TD propoganda, or is the Sporting News simply drawing the wrong conclusion about the team's reasoning behind the open competition (pushing JP vs best player)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Had to be the TD hype machine, I didn't see anything about bad work ethic going into the regular season.. Watching JP in the 1st-quarter against the Texans in those beautiful throwbacks, I thought we were making a playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 Had to be the TD hype machine, I didn't see anything about bad work ethic going into the regular season.. Watching JP in the 1st-quarter against the Texans in those beautiful throwbacks, I thought we were making a playoff run. 706308[/snapback] By TD hype machine I meant: that maybe TD was saying he was a hard worker last summer when really he wasn't... That said, I agree with you. Whatever one feels about his performance, he looked like he took it very seriously and nothing in the early part of the season suggested that he was unprepared. So I'm inclined to think that the QB competition is simply a competition, trying to pick and get the best out of the best qb, not some kind of motivational headgame for JP, and that JP is and already was giving 100% in the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I think JP is in a perfect situation. He's in a position where he has to earn the right to lead this team, and the guys he's competing against are both hungry, too. He's clearly the most physically talented of the three, so I hope he's able to really shine come training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I personally think you're seeing the Marv and Jauron hype machine at work right now. Planting stories in the press from sources within the organization about how JP is working hard and winning the job. I think this was their plan all along. And they were trying to undo the handed the job problem the vets had last year and some fans did, also. This is just the first of a series of little stories you'll see. Losman will soon be named the starter and start to become the leader. I am also not saying this is bad, it's probably smart. But the winning the job in practice was all a farce IMO. They knew he would win the job. You don't have the pressure on you in practice to show if you can handle the live bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 I personally think you're seeing the Marv and Jauron hype machine at work right now. Planting stories in the press from sources within the organization about how JP is working hard and winning the job. I think this was their plan all along. : 706327[/snapback] Sounds plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I personally think you're seeing the Marv and Jauron hype machine at work right now. Planting stories in the press from sources within the organization about how JP is working hard and winning the job. I think this was their plan all along. And they were trying to undo the handed the job problem the vets had last year and some fans did, also. This is just the first of a series of little stories you'll see. Losman will soon be named the starter and start to become the leader. I am also not saying this is bad, it's probably smart. But the winning the job in practice was all a farce IMO. They knew he would win the job. You don't have the pressure on you in practice to show if you can handle the live bullets. 706327[/snapback] And what can veterans like London Fletcher say? They aren't at the OTA's. You could say the same thing about vets that skip OTA's. Are their starting jobs being "handed" to them? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 And what can veterans like London Fletcher say? They aren't at the OTA's. You could say the same thing about vets that skip OTA's. Are their starting jobs being "handed" to them? PTR 706334[/snapback] Last I heard, the press wasn't hinting that there was dissention in the locker room last season because Fletcher was handed a starting job despite a half-hearted off-season. There has been dissention about JP. The question is, did he push himself 100% last off-season? Either (1) no, and TD was BS'ing us last year, (2) yes, and the Sporting News is drawing the wrong conclusion about the purpose of the qb competition, or (3) yes, but ML/JD are spinning it in order to address the dissention issue. OTA attendence of other players not on the starter-bubble has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I think TDs ultimate miscalculation which cost him his job was that he concluded that JP's learning curve which he would have last year would be less brutal than it was. He knew Bledsoe provided not much of a chance of carrying this team to the playoffs after the debacle in Pitts, but even still the smart bet was that a bad Bledsoe provided more than a learning JP. I don't think he realized how devastating effect it would have on the D to feel that the Bills were willing to consign the offensive production last year to a learning session for JP rather than take its best shot (even if its best shot was bad) at winning. From what I can see, it actually proved to be a disadvantage to have 10 or 11 starter return on D as there was a ton of film available to opponents on our D scheme and the individual players. The loss of but one player PW weakened this unit in run stopping and provided a clear area for opponents to attack successfully. JPs initial horrid struggles (really a worse case for him in production though I think it is way premature to write him off), combined with an obvious point of attack on the D and then the loss to injury of TKO and PWs inadequate replacement Edwards simply opened the floodgates to a meltdown. I think TD assumed he would get at least another year to right the ship of state. but the meltdown was so horrid and Ralph knows he ain't getting younger so even TD being a great business manager (salary cap management, partnerships with folks like St. John's Fisher and Tops) was not enough to save him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I think TDs ultimate miscalculation which cost him his job was that he concluded that JP's learning curve which he would have last year would be less brutal than it was. 706358[/snapback] I don't think it was that at all. I believe everybody was prepared for JP to struggle. What they weren't prepared for what the Ds total collapse (if you want to pick an "ultimate miscalculation" I'd go with letting Pat Williams go) and Mularky's inability to put together a conservative gameplan with JP in the lineup. If you recall, that was supposed to be the Bills ticket last year. Great D with an offensive philosophy that minimized JP's importance in the offense as much as possible (i.e. the same formula that led to Big Ben’s emergence in Pittsburgh) Obviously none of that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I don't think it was that at all. I believe everybody was prepared for JP to struggle. What they weren't prepared for what the Ds total collapse (if you want to pick an "ultimate miscalculation" I'd go with letting Pat Williams go) and Mularky's inability to put together a conservative gameplan with JP in the lineup. What he said. Although, IMO the loss of PW wasn't THAT substantial. IIRC, even though he was basically always healthy, he played in less than 60% of the defensive plays. That means that > 40% of the time, the defense would've been just as good w/ my dead grandma taking up his roster spot. Granted, in hindsight, it appears that losing him for the other 60% was quite a downgrade. Back to the original question, my opinion is that this is just TSN not being well informed. Then again, something can be said about the difference between working hard & working smart. He may hav e been very diligent last year, but much of his efforts may have been for naught (either due to his own inexperience &/or lack of direction from his instructors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 this is just TSN not being well informed. 706379[/snapback] This is the third time I've seen someone label this article as "Sporting News" insight. Allen Wilson is a Buffalo News beat reporter who contributes stories to TSN. Wilson sees the team on almost a daily basis and has good insight into the team and the personalities involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 This is the third time I've seen someone label this article as "Sporting News" insight. Allen Wilson is a Buffalo News beat reporter who contributes stories to TSN. Wilson sees the team on almost a daily basis and has good insight into the team and the personalities involved. 706399[/snapback] didn't look at the byline and realize he wrote that. Excellant point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Last I heard, the press wasn't hinting that there was dissention in the locker room last season because Fletcher was handed a starting job despite a half-hearted off-season. There has been dissention about JP. The question is, did he push himself 100% last off-season? Either (1) no, and TD was BS'ing us last year, (2) yes, and the Sporting News is drawing the wrong conclusion about the purpose of the qb competition, or (3) yes, but ML/JD are spinning it in order to address the dissention issue. OTA attendence of other players not on the starter-bubble has nothing to do with it. 706349[/snapback] Losman worked extremely hard last year. He was in Buffalo almost the entire off season and he was attached to the hip of Sam Wyche, studying the offense, when he wasn''t on the field. JP was not sucessful for two reaons ... 1- he simply wasn't ready to be a starter in the NFL. No shame for a 2nd year QB with a shortened rookie season. 2 -- The offense, including the coaching, was very bad. He had little help. The Sport News is printing a story, that is it, don't dig too deep. JP worked hard last year, but hard work alone will not get you respect from the veterans. Performance on the field does. Of course Losman will benefit from the competition. TD and Co were idiots to think otherwise. Thankfully, Marv knows better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 What he said. Although, IMO the loss of PW wasn't THAT substantial. IIRC, even though he was basically always healthy, he played in less than 60% of the defensive plays. That means that > 40% of the time, the defense would've been just as good w/ my dead grandma taking up his roster spot. Granted, in hindsight, it appears that losing him for the other 60% was quite a downgrade. Back to the original question, my opinion is that this is just TSN not being well informed. Then again, something can be said about the difference between working hard & working smart. He may hav e been very diligent last year, but much of his efforts may have been for naught (either due to his own inexperience &/or lack of direction from his instructors). 706379[/snapback] You do know DT's rarely ever play 100% of the defensive snaps...if ever...right? So to say Pat Williams loss wasn't that substantial is a definite understatement. The players on D knew how much he meant and have said so in interviews. I bet there isn't a DT in the league that played even 75% of his team's plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I shudder to initiate a topic which will inevitably turn into a JP is great/is crap thread, but I have a question about the following blurb from The Sporting News.: INSIDE DISH: Some people in the organization believe QB J.P. Losman has benefited from having to win the starting job instead of having it handed to him like last year. The team is pleased to see him respond to the challenge of trying to beat out Kelly Holcomb and Craig Nall. Losman is working much harder, throwing the ball with accuracy and has shown more maturity than he displayed last season. His decision making still needs to be more consistent, but he could win the starting job in training camp if he continues to improve and finds a comfort zone in the new offense. Love him or hate him, did anybody suggest that he didn't work hard enough in the offseason last year? He was billed at the time as really hitting the books, working super hard at the camps, etc. Was that TD propoganda, or is the Sporting News simply drawing the wrong conclusion about the team's reasoning behind the open competition (pushing JP vs best player)? 706303[/snapback] I am hopeful that what is really going on is that: ..he is working much harder at throwing accurately and improving his decision making... I he does not improve those, he will not be a very good IMHO. He culd very awesome if he ends up being very good in those two areas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Bernie Kosar was perhaps the most accurate thrower ever. He was ridiculously gifted. Where did it get him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Bernie Kosar was perhaps the most accurate thrower ever.He was ridiculously gifted. Where did it get him? 706756[/snapback] Combine very good accuracy and decision making with Losman already known skills of mobility, speed, and very strong arm, dude and you don't get Kosar, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Bernie Kosar was perhaps the most accurate thrower ever.He was ridiculously gifted. Where did it get him? 706756[/snapback] 13 years in the NFL. I'm sure he made a few bucks for his family over that time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Had to be the TD hype machine, I didn't see anything about bad work ethic going into the regular season.. Watching JP in the 1st-quarter against the Texans in those beautiful throwbacks, I thought we were making a playoff run. 706308[/snapback] Those TD passes against KC to Lee Evans were beautiful as well. The rest of the season was pretty pathetic however. I still think JP is going to be an above QB but he may wear out his welcome before the maturation occurs... Hope not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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