Lenny P Tip Sheet

[dave mcbride]

wow, talk about blowing it up into "Troy Vincent bitches about working too much"

 

He's doing his job, not bitching about being overworked. Way to twist the guy's words.

 

you guys are unreal. He's the Pres of the Players Union, he represents the union! THE UNION. If any one of you were in the NFL you'd love to have a mouthpiece like TV on your side. I read all the time "if I were a player, I'd be there at all the OTA's"....

really??? lets see you have that attitude after you've played a few years. Especially when your union representatives fought for you and therefore succeeded in mandating that the OTA's be "voluntary".

 

Until the union loses this battle (which it never will) the players have the right to skip them. So blast away, that's fine, quite frankly. But you can't say that you'd be at every OTA if you were a football player. You just don't know that you would.

 

And for the one's that b*tch that they work all year long, well that's your own damn fault  . every player in the league is there because they chose to make that their profession. They succeeded and now their enjoying the benefits.

 

I work my a$$ off too, but I choose to, no one forces me to. I would like to think if I were fortunate enough to have made a living as a NFL player, I'd be there as well for the OTA's, but I'll be damned if anyone tells me I am SUPPOSED to be there.

 

I see some even say they "hate Troy Vincent".....get real, you don't even know the guy.

you guys need to lighten up.

706081[/snapback]

thank you.

[Simon]

Anyone who can't take a few days out of the month to run through some plays with their team during their 6-month offseason is way too fragile and/or lazy to be playing in the NFL.

706275[/snapback]

 

Sorry, but you have no frame of reference and have no idea how necessary a full offseason is to a ballplayer. You can sit in your padded computer chair in front of your monitor and put any kind of spin on it that you want, but when it comes down to it you're just talking through your hat. I don't care how dedicated or resilient a man is, you must get away from the game every year or it will destroy you. Period.

[BUFFALOTONE]

wow, talk about blowing it up into "Troy Vincent bitches about working too much"

 

He's doing his job, not bitching about being overworked. Way to twist the guy's words.

 

you guys are unreal. He's the Pres of the Players Union, he represents the union! THE UNION. If any one of you were in the NFL you'd love to have a mouthpiece like TV on your side. I read all the time "if I were a player, I'd be there at all the OTA's"....

really??? lets see you have that attitude after you've played a few years. Especially when your union representatives fought for you and therefore succeeded in mandating that the OTA's be "voluntary".

 

Until the union loses this battle (which it never will) the players have the right to skip them. So blast away, that's fine, quite frankly. But you can't say that you'd be at every OTA if you were a football player. You just don't know that you would.

 

And for the one's that b*tch that they work all year long, well that's your own damn fault  . every player in the league is there because they chose to make that their profession. They succeeded and now their enjoying the benefits.

 

I work my a$$ off too, but I choose to, no one forces me to. I would like to think if I were fortunate enough to have made a living as a NFL player, I'd be there as well for the OTA's, but I'll be damned if anyone tells me I am SUPPOSED to be there.

 

I see some even say they "hate Troy Vincent".....get real, you don't even know the guy.

you guys need to lighten up.

706081[/snapback]

 

clp,clap,clap

[ajzepp]

Sorry, but you have no frame of reference and have no idea how necessary a full offseason is to a ballplayer. You can sit in your padded computer chair in front of your monitor and put any kind of spin on it that you want, but when it comes down to it you're just talking through your hat. I don't care how dedicated or resilient a man is, you must get away from the game every year or it will destroy you. Period.

706289[/snapback]

 

We can agree to disagree. IMO, there is NO career that would require someone to stay completely away from it for a six month period. Like I said above, if there is some physical concern, they can at least be present as a show of support.

 

As for my frame of reference, it's the friggin NFL! There are all sorts of top players in this league who - amazingly enough - find a way to show up for all or most of the OTAs, and they still SOMEHOW are able to have productive seasons and careers. Some of you are making this out to be a whole lot more than it really is.

[MRW]

is that directed toward me or a general statement? I spend more time on here in the day than I do at night, but that's because I am at work while most people are asleep in their beds. And I can assure you the fact that I post on a football message board has no bearing on my work ethic.

706272[/snapback]

Actually it was intended as a flippant remark but I forgot the smiley. I'm the last one who should be criticizing someone's work ethic.

[EndZoneCrew]

yawn

[ajzepp]

Actually it was intended as a flippant remark but I forgot the smiley.  I'm the last one who should be criticizing someone's work ethic. 

706299[/snapback]

 

LOL!

[Rico]

I think OTA attendance is only an issue for fans of teams that suck,

and last year, the Bills really did suck.

 

If they win the Super Bowl this year, I'm cool with the vets missing a couple OTA's in 2007,

they will have earned it.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

and because they miss VOLUNTARY OTA's they are showing no appreciation? If they miss MANDATORY practices without good reason, then I might say the same thing.

 

and you'll continue watching them, paying to see them, being an NFL football fan...

I hardly see how some players missing OTA's is going to keep you from being excited enough to continue being a fan. You may not like Willis and Troy's actions, but you'll still support them with your dollars like it or not.

706155[/snapback]

 

 

It is not even so much that he missed OTAs. He should know that saying things that come across as complaining will alienate some of the fans. He is supposed to be an intelligent guy, start acting like one. I think we all need to tone down what we say about our jobs at some point to avoid pissing off the customers or owners. I will still buy my season tickets and cheer like crazy for the team, but not for vincent. His jersey will not be on my Christmas list. And don't tell me I don't even know they guy, I know enough to dislike him based on his statements and actions.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

i would like to know if any of these guys who are so hyper-critical of a Bill missing OTA's, would do the same if say the following scenario happened where they work:

 

Boss sets up VOLUNTARY workshops on SATURDAYS for those in the company that wish to hone their skills and, in turn, help the company reach a fiscal goal later on.

 

So here we have Steve; a steady employee who has quite a talent and a steady position wih the company. He's very experienced at what he does although there are a few young upstarts who would love to have his job. But Steve is confident enough in his abilities and feels he can, when it matters most, work circles around these guys. He's a valuable commodity, and even if he does get demoted or leap-fogged by someone else, he has the luxury of knowing that several other established companies would snap him up in a minute and pay him his current or better wage.

 

He doesn't want to go to the saturday workshops, because that's when he and his buds go Harley riding or fishing.

 

To the outsider, this may seem trivial and they can't see how he could take that chance. But to him, he knows it's not a bad risk....after all, it's not mandatory he be there, he loves his time off, and he could always land a job elsewhere if his current employer is going to axe him for reasons they said would not be held against him.

 

This happens all the time in the real world. The NFL is a business too, with real people working in it.

706243[/snapback]

 

 

If Steve has one of the most desirable jobs on the planet and is paid a kings ransom, than he damn well better show up for the voluntary sessions or someone else will and take his great job. I don't know what you do for a living, but people in my company go the extra mile if they want to be the best and make the most. If you choose to do only the required things, you will not be looked up to as a leader and will not get promoted. Nobody is saying you have to show up for voluntary stuff, just don't expect to be a leader or respected as much as the workers who do show up.

[obie_wan]

Not to mention, on a pretty cruddy football team!

706140[/snapback]

 

 

 

maybe if all the vets showed up, they wouldn't so cruddy

[mary owen]

Believe it or not, some people have more work ethic than those afflicted with the Allen Iverson mentality. There are people who are actually able to make sure their own situation is secure while at the same time focusing on what is best for the TEAM. Steve is obviously all about what's best for Steve. There's no Steve in team.

706246[/snapback]

 

 

once again, in much simpler terms. if you had the choice to do something YOU wanted to do on your WEEKEND, but others felt you should show up on a saturday WITHOUT extra pay, and you didn't, what does that make you? It's freedom of choice. Also, let's take Steve again....he actually did these work shops on his saturdays last year and the year before.....THIS YEAR, he chooses to skip them.

 

this is exactly what these players are doing. London Fletcher has a choice, just like he did last year and the year before...but you forget that because it doesn't fit your argument.

[mary owen]

Huh? I don't know what kind of docs there are where you live, but the ones I know work their asses off.

706270[/snapback]

 

 

yeah, and i'm sure they take their fair share of time off as well. they've worked to get there, got there, and that's what they earned.

 

same thing here....you just need to accept it and stop getting so worked up about OTA's. it's laughable.

[Pyrite Gal]

If Steve has one of the most desirable jobs on the planet and is paid a kings ransom, than he damn well better show up for the voluntary sessions or someone else will and take his great job.  I don't know what you do for a living, but people in my company go the extra mile if they want to be the best and make the most.  If you choose to do only the required things, you will not be looked up to as a leader and will not get promoted.  Nobody is saying you have to show up for voluntary stuff, just don't expect to be a leader or respected as much as the workers who do show up.

706312[/snapback]

 

Applying this hypothetical to the real fake world of the NFL.

 

Fans are certainly well within their "rights" to advocate that the NFL equivalent of "Steve" be cut or somehow disciplined for blowing off the voluntary session. Also, the NFL and the NFLPA are well within their rights to ignore rants about advocating this point unless it has some effect on something they care about (the adoration of fans or more likely the bottomline profits).

 

In general, its all about entertainment and ultimately about winning and losing.

 

Even if the Bills lose, they have built up such an adoration from local and fans around the country that folks are still manic about it and spend their nickels for their team. Running a team has always been a tougher sell than running a team in a town with a larger population base and a more go-go economy like DC. However, as part of the whole NFL structure, team owner Ralph still makes money hand over fist over foot in this "tough" market.

 

All signs seem to point to even after 5 years in the playoff wilderness under TD and little more than hope of making the playoffs under Marv that the fanbase is generally rabid. Ralph has the ability to essentially cry poor and set up NYS government getting the shovel ready in this falls gubernatorial elections to shovel tax payer cash into the Bills coffers.

 

If this does not work, the team has the option of competing in the North American marketplace with the threat of moving the team to LA after Ralph is dead or even to Toronto to rake in the bucks.

 

In essence, they have the full capability to consider something like your hypothetical or the particulars of the Willis situation and say so what if they choose to.

 

As far as Willis goes, there seems to be a pretty clear answer for him as well to really say just spell the name right as far as any publicity about him. Ultimately the team's fate regarding W/L will be determined far more by what he produces in terms of yardage on the field and TDs he scores than whether he shows up for OTAs or not.

 

He does not seem to be an inspiring character at all with the inwardness of a personality he has demonstrated in his brief time with the Bills. if he provides any leadership it would be nice if he was a Darryl Talley but he seems to be more of a Bruce Smith who even worse is on qualudes (actually wasn't Bruce on qualudes when he fell asleep in car). Really the only leadership was is gonna get from WM is if he puts down a lot of yards and TDs as a rusher and pass receiver.

 

Willis has clear things he can do to maximize his "leadership" on the team AND also maximize the big bucks he can make personally selling his personality. His task is to get himself into the best physical shape he can get in and to increase his notariety in the press.

 

he has chosen a coirse of working out at the U to get himself into the best shape he can (signs such as his recovery from the injury and the muscle and weight he put on last off-season are a clear indicator he is serious and diligent about this.

 

Even better for him by not only pursuing this course at the U. but making a point of blowing off the voluntary worjouts and saying stupid (but not illegal) things like his baby momma comment on ESPN, he can raise his visibility among the same rubes who will send nickels his way just as they did when Ray Lewis proved his street cred by being involved in and beating the wrap on a murder.

 

It strikes me that some on this board have a fantasy wish that Willis is going to be a vocal leader on this team when he has shown no signs of having the type of character to do this. Even the general threat of the rantings of these fans disapproving of Willis being such an idiot actually seems to play right into giving WM street cred to make a bunch of money off being an idiot.

 

If he can produce yardage and TDs on the field I have no concern all that WM does not attend voluntary workouts or that he is no Darryl Talley, Kent Hull or whomever.

 

Folks may not like it, but really the only real thing they can do about this is to remember not to get impregnated by Willis. Otherwise, as long as he gets his body into the best shape it can be in to do the job he can do, it eems silly to get mad at him because he is not doing the job (being a Talley/Hull type leader) when he shows no natural ability to be this type of person (he seems to be a fellow who likes sitting in his spartan apartment and play Nintendo when he is not making babies). In addition, it seems to both suit his interests to get himself into the best physical form possible and also to help him make money from society. by blowing off the voluntary OTAs.

[ajzepp]

once again, in much simpler terms. if you had the choice to do something YOU wanted to do on your WEEKEND, but others felt you should show up on a saturday WITHOUT extra pay, and you didn't, what does that make you? It's freedom of choice. Also, let's take Steve again....he actually did these work shops on his saturdays last year and the year before.....THIS YEAR, he chooses to skip them.

 

this is exactly what these players are doing. London Fletcher has a choice, just like he did last year and the year before...but you forget that because it doesn't fit your argument.

706343[/snapback]

 

We just see it differently. Dick Jauron obviously feels it's important for the vets to be there for at least SOME of these camps. I would imagine that he has a reason for feeling that way. You're exactly right that it's freedom of choice, because it's a voluntary camp. I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that it's absolute BS for some of you to be sayign that it's just too much on them to find a week (or even just a weekEND) here and there to participate in some sort of team activity. There are plenty of examples of NFL players who DO attend the OTAs and then spend a large percentage of the rest of their time off in the playbook, the weight room, etc.

 

As for me, I am the type of person who does what he needs to do in order to accomplish a goal. When I am committed to something I give it my best. Do I feel it's important to have some down time to just relax and recharge? Of course....that's vital. But again, they have PLENTY of time to do whatever the heck they want to do. The OTAs are a very small percentage of their offseason free time.

[Rico]

wasn't Bruce on qualudes when he fell asleep in car

706346[/snapback]

[mary owen]

If Steve has one of the most desirable jobs on the planet and is paid a kings ransom, than he damn well better show up for the voluntary sessions or someone else will and take his great job.  I don't know what you do for a living, but people in my company go the extra mile if they want to be the best and make the most.  If you choose to do only the required things, you will not be looked up to as a leader and will not get promoted.  Nobody is saying you have to show up for voluntary stuff, just don't expect to be a leader or respected as much as the workers who do show up.

706312[/snapback]

 

 

so, i do these things when I want to, when it fits my life..and i've done the voluntary workshops before....but this year I choose not to. you all seem to forget that the players you are bitching about now, made you happy by showing up to VOLUNTARY ota's before.

 

in my business, I know when I need to go the extra mile. I've done it before. I'll do it again....I like to do it when I know I need to. It's always been my choice to do so. I've been very successful and I am in high demand.

[ajzepp]

yeah, and i'm sure they take their fair share of time off as well. they've worked to get there, got there, and that's what they earned.

 

same thing here....you just need to accept it and stop getting so worked up about OTA's. it's laughable.

706344[/snapback]

 

Accept what? In the grand scheme of things it makes no difference to my life whatsoever what any of them do or not do, lol. I'm simply stating my opinion, just like the rest of you. My point was that you guys are making the OTAs seem like friggin boot camp or something.

[ajzepp]

so, i do these things when I want to, when it fits my life..and i've done the voluntary workshops before....but this year I choose not to. you all seem to forget that the players you are bitching about now, made you happy by showing up to VOLUNTARY ota's before.

 

in my business, I know when I need to go the extra mile. I've done it before. I'll do it again....I like to do it when I know I need to. It's always been my choice to do so. I've been very successful and I am in high demand.

706351[/snapback]

 

And there are plenty of examples of players in the NFL who are all about themselves, too....if that's how you are, then that's how you are. But while you may like having players like that on the team, there are others of us who don't. Plain and simple.

[ajzepp]

 

 

 

It strikes me that some on this board have a fantasy wish that Willis is going to be a vocal leader on this team when he has shown no signs of having the type of character to do this. 

706346[/snapback]

 

You have a good point there. And I'm sure that part of the reason why I feel the way I do is because I remember Thurman on the sidelines before games trying to get people fired up....including Ralph Wilson! Thurman was a leader, and that's the kind of guy I love having on this team. Was he perfect? Of course not. But he was proud to be a Buffalo Bill and he was committed to making us the best team we could be.