OT - Baseball team or basketball team

[Pitta]

hey this is completely random but it got me thinking, do you think Buffalo could support a MLB or NBA team? I for one would not be opposed to the Bisons turning pro, and it is obviously known that the city was in the running for a pro team back when Tampa and Arizona were rewarded franchises. I just think with the passionate fans in Buffalo it could work. Then again, it is a small city and I'm not sure if baseball is a passion in WNY. But if hockey can work here with it's long schedule, why not baseball? Basketball I'm not so sure about, but i figured it was worth asking since we actually had a pro team at one point.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I think things are stretched thin as it is with the Bills and Sabres.

[Rubes]

IIRC, Buffalo was sort of in the running when Colorado got the Rockies. I recall that a lot of arguments were put forth to suggest that Buffalo couldn't support a pro baseball team, even though the Bisons had better attendance than a number of MLB teams.

 

I honestly don't think they could support a baseball team. I can't stand pro basketball, so I don't even care about the NBA.

[gmac17]

neither would work, but basketball would do better imo. Less games...

 

In hindsight, one of the best things to happen to buffalo was losing out to the rockies for the baseball team. If we had gotten them we wouldn't have lasted 10 years and Buffalo would look even worse in the national eye.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Yep. Work on keeping the Bills and Sabres in Buffalo before adding another pro team that will constantly be mentioned in "teams that could move" articles for the next century.

[BILLS4LIFE]

I dont see us getting a team in either sport anytime soon.

[Ennjay]

The key factor may be that basketball has a salary cap and baseball doesn't.

 

Look at Buffalo's likely sources of cash and corporate sponsorship, and also the massive start-up outlays for baseball (like funding a farm system) in addition to the franchise fee, before you even get to player salaries, and you get something behind the Kansas City Royals. It's not going to happen. Basketball has smaller capital requirements (franchise costs less, no farm system outlays, less front office, the facility -- HSBC -- is already there) AND a cap keeping all teams closer to each other, so it's more realistic even if it's still not going to happen.

 

In baseball, even if Oakland and Cincinnatti can win a few games they're not really perennial serious contenders like the Yankees and Boston and even St. Louis (every corporate dollar in that part of the country sponsors the Cards). In basketball, San Antonio can be a perennial champion and the Nets (who don't have nearly New York's money) can be pretenders.

 

Of course, the real bottom line is competence. Hence the Atlanta Braves (+) and New York Knicks (-).

[Arkady Renko]

Obviously Buffalo would struggle to keep this new team and it's not going to happen anytime soon. But as everyone else says, basketball would do the best. Cities like Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City are all great basketball towns.

 

I actually think that if there was a basketball team brought to the area, it would be better for it to be in Rochester since it would be that city's own and people to the east would have an easy time getting to the games. Besides, Toronto already has a team.

 

Rochester Royals yet again?

[PromoTheRobot]

Somebody did a study that showed Buffalo was already in over it's head finacially to support and NFL and an NHL franchise! There's no way Buffalo could support an MLB team. (and by the way, the Bisons are a PRO team...they are the AAA farm team of the Indians.)

 

Instead of an NBA team, Buffalo would do better supporting college basketball. UB is a competative team, and you have Niagara and Canisus too. $10-$15 to watch kids play their hearts out, or $100 to watch thugs mail it in? You decide.

 

Then there's always UB football. If Turner Gill is successful, I could see the community turn out for them too. And of course Bandits lacrosse does very well at the gate. There is some minor league basketball team in Buffalo but the team and league are on life support.

 

Buffalo has all the sports teams it can handle.

 

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

Obviously Buffalo would struggle to keep this new team and it's not going to happen anytime soon. But as everyone else says, basketball would do the best. Cities like Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City are all great basketball towns.

 

I actually think that if there was a basketball team brought to the area, it would be better for it to be in Rochester since it would be that city's own and people to the east would have an easy time getting to the games. Besides, Toronto already has a team.

 

Rochester Royals yet again?

702662[/snapback]

I think Rochester is a TERRIBLE sports town, despite what Bob Matthews would tell you. I mean they can't even sell 8,000 tickets to watch a regular season game between the Sabres and NJ Devils...with an NJ player being a Rochester native!!!!

 

Supposedly Rochester is trying to get an MLS franchise. They just built a soccer-only stadium. Nope, except for the LPGA and Rhinos soccer, "Smugtown" can't be bothered with pro sports.

 

PTR

[Ennjay]

Instead of an NBA team, Buffalo would do better supporting college basketball.  UB is a competative team, and you have Niagara and Canisus too.  $10-$15 to watch kids play their hearts out, or $100 to watch thugs mail it in?  You decide.

 

Then there's always UB football.  If Turner Gill is successful, I could see the community turn out for them too. 

702665[/snapback]

 

You're right. I've always been a big college fan (FB and BKB) and I was disappointed that Buffalo didn't develop into a major college sports town. When I was a kid we had a chance when Lanier was at Bonnie and Calvin Murphy at Niagara, and people were generally pretty excited. But just as they left we got the Braves, and in a strange way pro BKB (which left town later anyway) killed the colleges because the sports dollar in Buffalo can only go so many places.

 

BTW, I refuse to believe pro BKB really "failed" in Buffalo. It was mismanaged out of town by John Y. Brown. I see no hope for a new franchise now but the Braves did not have to leave when they did.

[stuckincincy]

You're right.  I've always been a big college fan (FB and BKB) and I was disappointed that Buffalo didn't develop into a major college sports town.  When I was a kid we had a chance when Lanier was at Bonnie and Calvin Murphy at Niagara, and people were generally pretty excited.  But just as they left we got the Braves, and in a strange way pro BKB (which left town later anyway) killed the colleges because the sports dollar in Buffalo can only go so many places.

 

BTW, I refuse to believe pro BKB really "failed" in Buffalo.  It was mismanaged out of town by John Y. Brown.  I see no hope for a new franchise now but the Braves did not have to leave when they did.

702687[/snapback]

 

IIRC, attendence was very good when the Braves became a playoff club, with the likes of Bob McAdoo, Randy Smith, Jim McMillan, Gar Heard, Moses Malone, Adrian Dantly and so forth...until Brown's sell-off.

 

The solace being that the Clippers joined the Bengals and the Az. Cardinals as a laughing stock.

 

...and that Brown married Phyliss George.

[Taro T]

You're right.  I've always been a big college fan (FB and BKB) and I was disappointed that Buffalo didn't develop into a major college sports town.  When I was a kid we had a chance when Lanier was at Bonnie and Calvin Murphy at Niagara, and people were generally pretty excited.  But just as they left we got the Braves, and in a strange way pro BKB (which left town later anyway) killed the colleges because the sports dollar in Buffalo can only go so many places.

 

BTW, I refuse to believe pro BKB really "failed" in Buffalo.  It was mismanaged out of town by John Y. Brown.  I see no hope for a new franchise now but the Braves did not have to leave when they did.

702687[/snapback]

Before Kentucky's governor got involved, Paul Snyder had already sold off Bob McAdoo and tried to sell the team to a guy that was going to move them out of town. Snyder had already put the Braves into the guillotine, JYB just threw the lever. Actually, I'm not even positive that he is the one that officially moved the team as he traded the Braves franchise for the Celtics franchise. I squarely put the blame for the Braves leaving town on Snyder.

 

Although basketball would be an easier sport to start up, I don't see enough interest in the pro game for Buffalo to ever get an NBA team. The city doesn't support the minor league pro team it has and IIRC TV ratings for pro games in Buffalo aren't exactly high. I definitely don't see what the league gains (or think it gains) by going back to a small market in Buffalo (or an even smaller market without a viable building - Ra-cha-cha, sorry the BC Arena at the War Memorial does not cut it as a major pro sports building).

 

Heck, unless things have changed drastically in the last year or 2, the city doesn't typically sell out the local colleges even though there have been some good teams recently.

 

Buffalo is much more of a baseball town than a basketball town. But with no salary cap and several big league teams being essentially glorified AAA teams (KC, Tampa Bay, and Pittsburgh), I don't see people paying big league prices to watch a AAA quality expansion team get crushed by the Braves and the Mets and everyone else. Since there is little likelihood under the current economic system in baseball for a team to be successful in Buffalo, I see no possibility of MLB returning to Buffalo in the foreseeable future.

[Cynical]

IIRC, Buffalo was sort of in the running when Colorado got the Rockies. I recall that a lot of arguments were put forth to suggest that Buffalo couldn't support a pro baseball team, even though the Bisons had better attendance than a number of MLB teams.

 

IIRC, not only were they in the running, they were leading the way.

MLB wanted a baseball only stadium. Buffalo had one in recently built (at that time) Pilot Field. The seating capacity is small now, but the stadium was designed so that seating capacity could easily increased to around 50k.

The Bisons lead the nation in attendance for AAA baseball for two years, and were better than some pro teams, despite having a smaller stadium.

The pitch job to MLB was best among the candidates. The Buffalo delegation was prepared, polished, and blew away the MLB committee.

 

So why didn't Buffalo get a team? Rich finally saw the light, and realized it didn't matter what Buffalo or Washington, DC did or was going to do, neither city was going to be awarded a franchise. MLB was bent on putting a team in Florida and somewhere in the Mountain time zone. That pretty much left the competition to Miami, Denver and the Tampa area.

 

Rich pulled the plug for his quest of a MLB team, citing the financial future of BB player salaries as being out of control.

[PromoTheRobot]

IIRC, not only were they in the running, they were leading the way.

MLB wanted a baseball only stadium. Buffalo had one in recently built (at that time) Pilot Field. The seating capacity is small now, but the stadium was designed so that seating capacity could easily increased to around 50k.

The Bisons lead the nation in attendance for AAA baseball for two years, and were better than some pro teams, despite having a smaller stadium.

The pitch job to MLB was best among the candidates. The Buffalo delegation was prepared, polished, and blew away the MLB committee.

 

So why didn't Buffalo get a team? Rich finally saw the light, and realized it didn't matter what Buffalo or Washington, DC did or was going to do, neither city was going to be awarded a franchise. MLB was bent on putting a team in Florida and somewhere in the Mountain time zone. That pretty much left the competition to Miami, Denver and the Tampa area.

 

Rich pulled the plug for his quest of a MLB team, citing the financial future of BB player salaries as being out of control.

702907[/snapback]

Just as well, too. The MLB Buffalo Bisons would have been bottom-feeders, losing what few prospects we'd have to the Red Sox and Yankees, kind of what KC and Pittsburgh are now.

 

PTR

[GhostsOfTheRockpile]

Just as well, too.  The MLB Buffalo Bisons would have been bottom-feeders, losing what few prospects we'd have to the Red Sox and Yankees, kind of what KC and Pittsburgh are now.

 

PTR

702908[/snapback]

 

Buffalo was in the final draw with Florida and Denver back in the days. Since then the Rockies have struggled but the Marlins have won TWO World Championships (granted one was via spend-spend-spend, but the other was via a bunch of no-names). There's no guarantee they'd fail out of the gate.

 

On a similarly tiny budget the Oakland A's have achieved constant success.

 

I'm not saying Buffalo should even TRY to get a MLB team (it would NEVER happen), but the fact the city is a "small market" does not necessarily equate to failure. Sure, the Bisons could be the next Royals or Pirates, but bring in smart enough talent evaluators and quality coaches/management and they could be the next A's. I'm pretty sure most Buffalo sports fans would take making the playoffs four out of every five years?

[PromoTheRobot]

Buffalo was in the final draw with Florida and Denver back in the days.  Since then the Rockies have struggled but the Marlins have won TWO World Championships (granted one was via spend-spend-spend, but the other was via a bunch of no-names).  There's no guarantee they'd fail out of the gate.

 

On a similarly tiny budget the Oakland A's have achieved constant success.

 

I'm not saying Buffalo should even TRY to get a MLB team (it would NEVER happen), but the fact the city is a "small market" does not necessarily equate to failure.  Sure, the Bisons could be the next Royals or Pirates, but bring in smart enough talent evaluators and quality coaches/management and they could be the next A's.  I'm pretty sure most Buffalo sports fans would take making the playoffs four out of every five years?

702957[/snapback]

I can see us trying to sign free-agents. "I swear to God, A-Rod it doesn't snow in April...okay maybe once in a while. Will another 100 million change your mind?"

 

PTR

[Ray]

The Marlins have won 2 World Series, but now have a payroll of about 20 million! Absurd! The Buffalo Bisons (or MLB equivalent) would likely have to be in the National League and play with a payroll of about 50-70M to be competitive. I don't know how feasible that would be, but I think it would have been great. It's not going to happen now. No way with basketball as it would directly compete with hockey. Unfortunately you need big time corporate money for sports nowadays and consider ourselves lucky to have two franchises. And yes the Bills will stay here--enough of the doom and gloom!

I agree with you though, that it is fun to talk about and I think a baseball team would be great! There is nothing like a summer night and going to a ball game. The good thing about baseball is that overall the tix are cheap at most stadiums except Fenway--Buffalo had its chance.

[Mark VI]

Buffalo had a Major League Baseball team locked in back in 1968.. but the planned Cottrell Lancaster Stadium plan went belly up, forcing MLB to go to a backup plan. ( Montreal Expo's ).

 

This all sports stadium was also going to house the Bills and caused Ralph to start threatening to move the team to Seattle if another stadium plan didn't surface fast, since the Rockpile was falling apart in a bad neighborhood. Our Orchard Park facility was the result.

 

A little history lesson for the hot pockets crowd.

[Art in PNS]

In short no. I don't live there anymore but still support both the Sabres and Bills from NC. Buffalo has a great Minor league Baseball team which is a great fit, these guys actually want to play , like my Durham Bulls . Why bring in the baseball prma Dona's even if you could support it. Last comment I wouldn't walk across the street to watch a pro basketball game if I had courtside free tickets. As a matter of fact if I had free Limo service to and from the game with free courtside tickets , and Hef's babes driving the Limo I wouldn't go. Hell I won't even watch that trash on TV . Now college Ball is another story but I'm not sure how much longer that will be interesting either.