Bledsoe's 2005 season w/ Cowboys

[RuntheDamnBall]

PG/FFS: We don't know, we simply do not know how the team would have fared if JP had beaten out Bledsoe for the job in camp (which I believe him to have been capable of). In my opinion, things would have been entirely different. Tough to really critically discuss, though.

[smokinandjokin]

Do you disagree?

699901[/snapback]

 

Nope. I thought it was a good pickup in 2002. The first half of that '02 season, the Flutie vs. Johnson arguments of previous years seemed absolutely moronic because we finally had a 'real' QB in Buffalo. But he showed his true colors in the 2nd half of the year. And in 2003, he was fully exposed. The front office made some moves to bolster the D, and Bledsoe proceeded to play absolutely horrible. From week 3 and beyond, the Bills went 4 and 10 and failed to score an offensive TD in half of those games. In 2004, they began slowly, went on a winning streak, and then lost the one game that should have been automatic. In the end, I thought Bledsoe did enough in '04 to earn the right to return in '05. I thought it would be nice to see what he could do with a full season of Willis in the backfield, and another year with Evans, who he seemed to have some chemistry with. I agree, he would've faired better than the JP/Holcomb experiment.

 

That said, I also wasn't disappointed with his release. The Pittsburgh game, while it was a loss across the board for the whole team, magnified Bledsoe's shortcomings. You have the right to expect your 10-year vet 'HOF caliber' QB to put the team on his shoulders to win a home game against some backups. That was apparently too much to ask. And what would've happened had the Bills won? They would've had a road playoff game and Bledsoe would've looked like he always did on the road against a good team- pathetic.

 

Another poster mentioned earlier that Bledsoe was a known commodity. He was most likely a 7-9 or 8-8 QB. JP was the unknown, the potential...and still is.

[Ramius]

The main problem with the whole bledsoe ordeal is that TD didnt surround him with the appropriate players. He knew he had a statue coming in as QB and should have seriously beefed up the line. He took the track of desigining an offense around a mobile QB.

 

Is Drew Bledose good? Of course.

Was i glad the Bills picked him up for 3 years? yes.

Should the Bills have cut drew last offseason? yes, should have cut him after 2004.

Shoudl have the bills cut drew and just handed the job to JP? No.

 

Bledsoe has amazing talent, but he seems to lack heart. Not as in he doesnt want to play, but as in he fails to come up big when the money is on the table, and just rolls with it. Anyone who has played a team sport knows what its like to have a player who just elevates him game and manages to elevate the game of everyone else. A true leader inspires his team to kick it in high gear. Unfortunately, drew never did that.

 

If you are picking a QB to make your team good, cant go wrong with drew. But if you need a QB who can get the job done in the clutch, you dont want drew. He just doesnt find ways to win when it matters.

[obie_wan]

 

If you are picking a QB to make your team good, cant go wrong with drew. But if you need a QB who can get the job done in the clutch, you dont want drew. He just doesnt find ways to win when it matters.

699965[/snapback]

 

 

and it's not that he simply doesn't find ways to win.

 

He loses games on his own with picks and fumbles for TDs and complete failuure to score in the red zone.

[dave mcbride]

That's completely untrue also. This is an article on SI.com about it. He agrees with you and me, that Drew doesn't deserve it. But he makes a good point about Fouts being in with similar careers. And he talks about if people look at stats he's a lock. And they may. He definitely will be considered strongly for the Hall. Again, I don't think he deserves it and I'm not sticking up for him at all, I'm just saying that guys like him make it in all the time.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ.../bledsoe/1.html

699772[/snapback]

great line:

 

"Bledsoe is like the water buffalo innocently taking a drink in the Serengeti -- you know it's only a matter of time before a mauling."

 

also, pyrite gal could have written this passage:

 

"I'm surprised that Michael Lewis hasn't penned a Moneyball-like manifesto about how teams are better off starting pedestrian mistake-free QBs -- like the Greek God of the swing pass, Brad Johnson -- over superstar gunners like Daunte Culpepper who launch the ball all over the field."

[BuffOrange]

You see, this is what I simply cannot understand.

  Good for Buffalo? No, we cannot block, and he needs more protection than most.

  A good scrambler? Absolutely not.

 

  Still, evidence that says that he is "not good?" Really, this is simply not true. The following is why Drew Bledsoe is "good":

 

1) He is almost certain to retire in the top 10 in terms of passing TDs and passing yards.

2) He is durable.

3) He was blessed with an arm that enables him to make throws that only a few were ever capable of making. Will you at least concede this?

4) His teammates seem to like and respect him.

5) Parcells thinks enough of him to use him as his qb to make perhaps one last run. This alone should point to him being a good qb.

 

  PG is completely right. Expectations were unreasonable in Buffalo. Drew has some serious limitations, along with the ability to throw some literally great passes. That said, he was unable to walk in and push us over the top, especially given the curious at best coaching and personnel moves.

 

  And to those who blame Drew alone for the Pittsburgh loss, I remind you that Drew was not playing defense.

699889[/snapback]

Bill,

In my view it's pretty simple really. Good QB's make the guys around them look better. Bad QB's make them look worse. Average QB's are just kinda "there" - as good or bad as the players around them are. I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue he's been anything but average based on the 12 years of evidence that is available.

 

Sure, he has had a few nice seasons statistically - particularly in '94, '96-98 with good supporting casts, and possibly '02 if you neglect the fact that he tanked the 2nd half of the year. OK granted - that's 5 solid seasons - nothing to be ashamed of.

 

OTOH, he has had equally below average seasons circa ' 99 and '00, when all signs point to that New England supporting cast being much better than people thought at the time. '03, even if you're playing with replacement players or the '76 Bucs...zero offensive TD's in 7 games? That's pathetic by any standards when you're in the prime of your career and healthy. I won't even mention his dreadful postseason history AGAIN.

 

I know Fez & everybody likes to take shortcuts with the 'fastfood' approach and pretend like the '05 Bills defense or schedule was anything like '04 - and even if this were true - I don't see what JP sucking last year has anything to do with rating Bledsoe as a QB throughout his 13 year career. I mean do you really want to play the "look how team X did after Bledsoe was out of the picture" card given who won the freaking Super Bowl in 2001?

[Pyrite Gal]

The main problem with the whole bledsoe ordeal is that TD didnt surround him with the appropriate players. He knew he had a statue coming in as QB and should have seriously beefed up the line. He took the track of desigining an offense around a mobile QB.

 

Is Drew Bledose good? Of course.

Was i glad the Bills picked him up for 3 years? yes.

Should the Bills have cut drew last offseason? yes, should have cut him after 2004.

Shoudl have the bills cut drew and just handed the job to JP? No.

 

Bledsoe has amazing talent, but he seems to lack heart. Not as in he doesnt want to play, but as in he fails to come up big when the money is on the table, and just rolls with it. Anyone who has played a team sport knows what its like to have a player who just elevates him game and manages to elevate the game of everyone else. A true leader inspires his team to kick it in high gear. Unfortunately, drew never did that.

 

If you are picking a QB to make your team good, cant go wrong with drew. But if you need a QB who can get the job done in the clutch, you dont want drew. He just doesnt find ways to win when it matters.

699965[/snapback]

 

The interesting thing for me when you compare the 2003 Bledsoe performance to the 2004 Bledsoe performance is that I think that Clements/Kevin Killdrive demonstrated one of the ways you make Bledsoe more effective is to run him.

 

This is not because Bledsoe is in any way shape or form a good runner. No one is going to forget John Elway watching DB run the ball.

 

However, a big difference I noted between the pass-happy non diverse and non-changing Killdrive approach and the 2004 success of the Clements/MM approach with its use of trick and gimmick plays was they were willing to occaisionally run a QB draw with Bledsoe. They also made healthy use of some very good B;edsoe ball handling skills and his ability to run some fakes afte taking 10 years of snaos.

 

When DB ran there was not going to be a TD as he evaded hit after hit and danced Micheal Vick like into the endzone. However, he was gonna get the snot knocked out of him by a blitzer standing back in the pocket, and TC had no fear of sending this big boy up the gut on a run where by surprising folks and falling forward he was going to make 5 yards or even a first down if the LBs took circular blitz routes in to get a free run at the pocket.

 

By running Bledsoe, TC did a ton to slowdown the blitz because opposing D players had to stay at home on passing downs and guard the center of the field and not sell out to blitz. As, Killdrive was never ever never gonna run Bledsoe, the opposing D players did not fear giving up the center of the field.

 

Likewise, when it was 4th and 1, the D had to pinch up to stop Bledsoe from diving into the line for a 1st. Thus, they were vulnerable on the play where Bledsoe faked the dive/run and turned an pitched it to WM who scampered 40+ yards for the TD.

 

Likewise a good result happened when the D swarmed toward WM when he was handed the ball and when suddenly turned to pitch it back to DB, a moment of hesitation toward the line was all Evans or Moulds needed to keep soing upfield to be hit deep.

 

None of this trickery was enough to make a playoff team out of the Bills led by DB who was the best of passers at his peak but now is well into the backside of his career. The problem is folks seem to make the mistake of concluding because Bledsoe cannot carry a team to a good season it also means he cannot be part ofa TEAM that has a god season, with luck even makes the playoffs or can even be an important role player in a team that wins it all like NE did in the 2001 season.

[bbills17]

OK, so Bledsoe is not a franchise QB? You forgot something.. You also forgot about the fact that Holcomb, and especially JP stunk up the football field last season.

 

The cowboys fielded multiple rookies on defense in 05, and both of their OTs were lost to injury. They also played in the toughest and best coached division in football and managed to finish 9-7.

 

I readily admit that Drew needs more protection than most qbs. He isn't mobile at all. I also admit that he was a poor fit in Buffalo, where we throw away draft picks for tiny little "skill" players instead of building a big, strong football team no matter who is calling the shots.

 

That said, JP and Holcomb have a long way to go before they can make the claim of being a pimple on Drew's ass. 

 

Another try at the link.

699630[/snapback]

 

I'd take KH over DB any day of the week to lead a football team. Everybody rags on him because of his arm strength, but he knows how to manage a football game, read defences, and go through his progressions a helluva lot better than DB. Did I mention throwing short passes to his checkdowns?

[Rico]

I'd take KH over DB any day of the week to lead a football team.  Everybody rags on him because of his arm strength, but he knows how to manage a football game, read defences, and go through his progressions a helluva lot better than DB.  Did I mention throwing short passes to his checkdowns?

700143[/snapback]

Amen. If Holcomb was our QB in 2004, we would've made the playoffs.

[Bill from NYC]

I'd take KH over DB any day of the week to lead a football team.  Everybody rags on him because of his arm strength, but he knows how to manage a football game, read defences, and go through his progressions a helluva lot better than DB.  Did I mention throwing short passes to his checkdowns?

700143[/snapback]

 

No offense....and I sincerely mean NO offense, but this post was so absurd that I decline comment/rebuttal.

[Orton's Arm]

Did Holcomb outplay DB? 

Let's look at the numbers:

 

Bledsoe in 2004

Yards/game: 183.5

Passer rating: 76.6

 

Holcomb in 2005

Yards/game: 201.2

Passer rating: 85.6

 

Both QBs were working with the same coaching staff and the same receivers. Bear in mind that the offensive line was considerably better in 2004 than in 2005, so Bledsoe's numbers ought to be a little better than Holcomb's even if they both played the same. Instead, Holcomb has the better numbers. Would Holcomb have been as good a QB for Dallas as Bledsoe was? No. But Holcomb was the better QB for the Bills because he could read the field faster, and get rid of the ball quicker. On a team with no offensive line, the ability to get rid of the ball quickly matters a lot more than what you can do with the football when you have five seconds to throw.

[C.Biscuit97]

Based on training camp last year, if both had the chance to compete, would JP beaten out Bledsoe? Just wondering.

[Orton's Arm]

With Bledsoe -- 9-7

Without Bledsoe -- 5-11

Look at the state of the offensive line in 2005 versus 2004:

 

2004

Jennings

Tucker

Teague (healthy)

Villarrial (healthy)

Williams (healthy and surprisingly effective)

 

2005

Gandy

Anderson

Teague (injured/ineffective)

Villarrial (injured/ineffective)

Williams (injured/ineffective); later Peters

 

There's not one offensive line position--not one--where the Bills had the same quality of play in 2005 as in 2004. Downgrades across the board. Do you think this affected the win/loss record? I do.

[Dibs]

I'm absolutely amazed how much emotion revolves around Bledsoe.

There are several aspects discussed on this thread that are not diametrically opposed.

1. How good is Bledsoe? Bad/Average/Good/Great

2. Should we have gotten rid of him?

3. Would he have done as well as his replacement(s)?

4. Will he make the HOF?

5. ETc, etc, etc.

 

Just because someone thinks he should have been gotten rid of when we did, does not mean that that someone does not think he is a Good QB.

 

Just because someone thinks he will make the HOF does not mean they think he is a Great QB.

 

Just because someone thinks he would have done as well or better than his replacement(s) last year does not mean they think he should have been retained nor does it mean they think he is a great or even a good QB.

 

I have a migraine today & it has annoyed the !@#$ out of me that some of you on this post respond to one point with a totally seperate point which does not contradict, refute nor even relate to that point.

Sorry for lumping everyone together but I think the ones who know what I'm talking about know I'm not talking about them.

[Dibs]

oops, lost my temper.

I blame the pain.

Sorry everyone.

[Orton's Arm]

oops, lost my temper.

I blame the pain. 

Sorry everyone.

Why on earth are you apologizing for that previous post? You brought up legitimate shortcomings of some posts, and did it without resorting to personal attacks. That's a rare thing on these boards.

[hootie1]

If you read this quote from Peter King's mailbag, you'll see that some Dallas fans have been reading this thread...

 

"EVEN THIS COWBOYS FAN LAUGHS AT MY PICK. From Elizabeth Pugliese, of Washington, D.C.: "I have been a Dallas fan practically all my life. But Dallas in the Super Bowl this year? No way. It will be another disappointing year. They forgot to address their most glaring need: an actual quarterback. Drew Bledsoe cannot get it done in the clutch -- or any other time. It is not just his lack of mobility (moving in one game does not make him a mobile quarterback); he does not make good throwing decisions, he can't throw accurately enough to ensure that the ball gets to the guy on the route, etc. Then there is T.O. It is all the same hype from when he went to Philly. When he is not getting the ball, regardless of what Bill Parcells has said, he is going to throw temper tantrums, then short-arm passes to prove how important he is. No way. I'm not even holding my breath for the playoffs this year."

[Pyrite Gal]

Look at the state of the offensive line in 2005 versus 2004:

 

2004

Jennings

Tucker

Teague (healthy)

Villarrial (healthy)

Williams (healthy and surprisingly effective)

 

2005

Gandy

Anderson

Teague (injured/ineffective)

Villarrial (injured/ineffective)

Williams (injured/ineffective); later Peters

 

There's not one offensive line position--not one--where the Bills had the same quality of play in 2005 as in 2004.  Downgrades across the board.  Do you think this affected the win/loss record?  I do.

700239[/snapback]

I do not think your assessment gives justice to the actual performances. The 04 play was not stable and thesame throughout the year (as shown in the radical differences in record) and the assessment does not reflect that.

 

In both 2004 and 05, there is a legit question of which is cause and which is effect. Do you present evidence tbat it was the OL play which led to the results, or did other factors (such as playcalling) provide a lead factor in results and then you judge the OL play based on the results.

 

The argument is superficial enough as not to be compelling.

[tennesseeboy]

I think we could have done better with Bledsoe if we created a Bledsoe oriented offense. That meant 1 getting a great tight end (Witten would have been available and nice, and 2 getting a good pass-blocking offensive line. We never had that and DB didn't get to play his game. He really doesn't seem to fit in the Bills scheme at all, even now. I wish him well in Dallas, but I don't think he is (or was) at the top of his game in Buffalo and his physical skills are diminishing. The decision to let him go was a pretty good one, and the assumption was that JP was ready and we'd acquire a good back-up just in case. Didn't work out the way it was planned, but it made sense at the time.

[stuckincincy]

I think we could have done better with Bledsoe if we created a Bledsoe oriented offense.  That meant 1 getting a great tight end (Witten would have been available and nice, and 2 getting a good pass-blocking offensive line.  We never had that and DB didn't get to play his game.  He really doesn't seem to fit in the Bills scheme at all, even now.  I wish him well in Dallas, but I don't think he is (or was) at the top of his game in Buffalo and his physical skills are diminishing.  The decision to let him go was a pretty good one, and the assumption was that JP was ready and we'd acquire a good back-up just in case.  Didn't work out the way it was planned, but it made sense at the time.

700588[/snapback]

 

IIRC, Tenny, the Bills were interested in getting Witten, but DAL picked him near the top of round #3 in 2003. The Bills took Crowell near the bottom of the 3rd.