Bledsoe's 2005 season w/ Cowboys

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Marino never seemed to buy into the team concept. Better for me to take a sack than to throw an incomplete pass was always Danny's mindset. Better for me to throw when teams were expecting the pass than to rush the ball for four or five yards. He wouldn't buy into Jimmy Johnson's way of doing things, even though Johnson has the rings and he doesn't. Do you think Danny boy would have a ring if he was more of a team player?

 

The truly great QBs do both put up great numbers and win championships. For example, Elway and Montana.

 

Rings or stats alone shouldn't make a qb. Lil' Abner er umm Terry Bradshaw has the rings, but I do not know many people who would put him in the same class as Elway or Montana. 

 

I noticed you only cited Drew's yardage. How do his other numbers stack up with the greats?

Give Marino a defense AND a running game, and he probably has more rings than any QB in the history of the NFL. And this is coming from a guy who HATED Marino as a Dolphin, but realized his talent. Football is a TEAM game, hence the reason Bradshaw has 4 rings, and guys like Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Roethlisberger (he STUNK in the SB last year) have SB rings.

[MrLocke]

Give Marino a defense AND a running game, and he probably has more rings than any QB in the history of the NFL.  And this is coming from a guy who HATED Marino as a Dolphin, but realized his talent.  Football is a TEAM game, hence the reason Bradshaw has 4 rings, and guys like Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Roethlisberger (he STUNK in the SB last year) have SB rings.

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People say a similar thing about Peyton Manning. No wait he had a defense this year. If ifs and butts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas. Please don't make excuses for people.

[IBTG81]

You know what I find funny?  Anytime someone says something positive about DB, they're told to shutup, he doesn't play for the team, move on, along with some vulgar personal attacks.

 

On the other hand, when someone wants to say something negative about the guy, that's fine.

 

Hypocrites.

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Can Fezmid go one Bledsoe thread without replying?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

People say a similar thing about Peyton Manning. No wait he had a defense this year. If ifs and butts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas. Please don't make excuses for people.

What does Peyton Manning have to do with Dan Marino? And Elway was a Marino-clone until he had his defense and Terrell Davis. Please.

[C.Biscuit97]

Give Marino a defense AND a running game, and he probably has more rings than any QB in the history of the NFL.  And this is coming from a guy who HATED Marino as a Dolphin, but realized his talent.  Football is a TEAM game, hence the reason Bradshaw has 4 rings, and guys like Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Roethlisberger (he STUNK in the SB last year) have SB rings.

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Marino was an ego manic. He wanted to be the star. There's a reason no running back was successful: he didn't want to share the limelight. My last memory is Marino, face bright red, yelling at his teammates. Great passer, bad leader, Jim Kelly's female dog.

 

As far as Bledsoe, I like the guy. I wanted nothing more than him to win a Super Bowl with us. Even though he is with the Cowgirls, I have no ill will towards him. However, he just takes way too many crucial sacks and makes some bonehead plays. Plus, the team did nothing to improve their line. Look for some great numbers fantasy wise but an ultimately disappointing season. If TO can't be happy with McNabb (a top 5 QB in my mind), I don't understand how Bledsoe is going to make him happier. I guess time will tell.

[dave mcbride]

Marino never seemed to buy into the team concept. Better for me to take a sack than to throw an incomplete pass was always Danny's mindset because it doesn't hurt his preciuos qb rating. Better for me to throw when teams were expecting the pass than to rush the ball for four or five yards. He wouldn't buy into Jimmy Johnson's way of doing things, even though Johnson has the rings and he doesn't. Do you think Danny boy would have a ring if he was more of a team player?

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um ... he took very few sacks over the entirety of his career. as for the running game, it would have helped if he had a nfl-caliber running back playing behind him along with an offensive line that knew how to run block. unfortunately for marino, they weren't present when johnson coached the dolphins.

[Dibs]

it would have helped if he had a nfl-caliber running back playing behind him along with an offensive line that knew how to run block.

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I was under the impression that one of the reasons Marino had an O-line that struggled at run blocking was because he used his *star* influence to make sure his O-linemen were proficient at protecting him. Their run block ability was considered second to their pass protection ability.

Don't get me wrong....I think Marino was one of the all-time greats but...perhaps he would have been better off having his ego reigned in a little. (note:- ego is not a dirty word)

 

Can you imagine how Marino would have been if he called his plays ala Kelly?

Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, etc.

 

It's not a terrible knock to say someone so tallented had a flaw. In the end I blame Shula for giving him too much say in things.

[Kelly the Dog]

Give Marino a defense AND a running game, and he probably has more rings than any QB in the history of the NFL.  And this is coming from a guy who HATED Marino as a Dolphin, but realized his talent.  Football is a TEAM game, hence the reason Bradshaw has 4 rings, and guys like Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Roethlisberger (he STUNK in the SB last year) have SB rings.

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I would argue, and I know other people have this same feeling, that a large part of the Dolphins failure to establish a running game was Marino himself. After ten years he still couldn't even hand the ball off properly. He was terrible at it. It took him forever to get it there on off tackle plays. He was a fabulous passer and terrific at stepping up in the pocket, but he had huge shortcomings in his game, IMO. I think Kelly was a much better overall QB than Marino.

[MrLocke]

What does Peyton Manning have to do with Dan Marino?  And Elway was a Marino-clone until he had his defense and Terrell Davis.  Please.

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Two supoussed amazing quarterbacks who can't get it done in the clutch are what Manning and Marino are. Are you saying Marino didn't have a defense when Jimmy Johnson was the coach? How many teams are stacked at every position. That is what you seem to be saying. If Dan Marino played on a team that was stacked at every position he would have an SB ring. Many teams win SBs with deficiencies at certain spots. The Ravens come to mind of the top of my head. Elway a Marino clone? Never mind that Elway could get some first downs with his legs. I would Look at the stats before I made a claim like this.

[MrLocke]

um ... he took very few sacks over the entirety of his career. as for the running game, it would have helped if he had a nfl-caliber running back playing behind him along with an offensive line that knew how to run block. unfortunately for marino, they weren't present when johnson coached the dolphins.

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I am not saying Marino took ALOT of sacks. I am saying that he would rather take the sack than throw an incomplete pass. The other Karim Abdul-Jabar was certainly servicable when Jimmy Johnson was there. The run-blocking should have been easy if Marino was as good as he thought he was, as teams would have had their linebackers playing further behind the ball anticipating the pass.

[BuffOrange]

I think it's funny that people still argue that Bledsoe is good given the mountain of evidence that says otherwise.

Fortunately for Dallas, they have a good D, a great coach, and there aren't many good QB's in the NFC. I think it'll be a lot like 2002 where DB puts up huge numbers early with the help of TO and fades down the stretch.

[Pyrite Gal]

I totally agree with your "Rings or stats alone shouldn't make a qb." statement.

Your line above I feel goes contrary to this & in my mind is incorrect.

If you look at the first 10 years of Elways 16year career, you will find he does not have either the stats nor the SB rings.  He was however still considered one of the all time greats. 

The greats will generally gravitate to success but obviously if they are on sub-par teams with sub-par coaching they might only be able to get so far...i.e. Elways 3 SB losses. 

When a QB continually does the extraordinary & elevates his team to victories etc, we know he is a great QB regardless of his stats.  If it is his team that falters at the later hurdles(not him), I don't believe he should be considered less than great because of it.

 

I suppose the point on JP vs Bledsoe to me is/was....

Bledsoe is not a great QB...this we know.

JP may become one...this we do/did not know

Always go with what you know....Bledsoe is not a great QB.

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Boy, I hope you are not to upset when this not great QB likely makes it to the HOF.

 

Its a vote and thus to some degree a popularity contest. Hiowever, in order to even get into the popularity contest you have to be able to put together a some combination of achievements. Bledsoe supporters will be able to put together the following combo of facts:

 

1. He will end his career with accumulated stats placing him within the top 5 QBs of all time ins such stats as total yards, total TDs, attempts etc.- Personally, I think that while this cumulative stats do not compare with percentage stats which show efficiency over an entire career rather than a few outstanding years, the NFL is a tough racket and simply sticking around as a starter long enough in pass happy offenses is an accomplishment which cannot be ignored.

 

The facts are that these accumulated stats are not nearly enough in themselves to make one the best, but having the ability to impress folks enough to play year and year out is an accomplishment which is noted in the accumulated stats. I agree it ain;t perfect but it is very impressive to finish in the top 4 all time of any of these basic stats.

 

2. He will have led a team to the SB (something many great players like Peyton Manning so far only go to when they buy a ticket).and even better for him got an SB ring on a team Brady definitely led, but he played QB, and threw the game winning TD in a must win game or they do not even make it to the SB. Like the circu,stances or not, he simply accomplished the goals that the game is all about Charlie Brown.

 

3. He was really outstanding in his younger days a few times and has risen from the ashes of failure to achieve notable accomplishments after his fall. Like it or not, after Tom brady bounced his butt from his job because Brady was a better player, Bledsoe did play QB in the majority of a must win game.

 

Like it or not, after the Pats correctly chose to stick with Brady and cut Bledsoe. He did put up great numbers with a Bills O which had been pathetic the year before and deserved the Pro Bowl reserve acknowledgement he received (if you disagree that is fine just simply name the other AFC QBs wo deserved the reserve honor the he beat them out of that year. Like it or not, the Dallas team led by him came within a game of making the playoffs last year and has a fair shot this year. If they do I think he cement hi entry into the HOF.

 

These accumulated accomplishments will get him seriously considered and then it is mostly a manner of who else retires the same year he does. If the competition is Brett Favre he has to wait, if the other lead QB on the ballot is Jeff Blake, given the over fascination with the QB position inherent in the NFL, Bledsoe probably make it in on the first ballot.

 

Again like it or not, he was quite a team guy in not whimpering much if at all when the better player Brady brushed him aside after he was injured. many accomplished players like a TO are jerks for no reason, but he has been a team guy and that should be more than enough to get this not great QB into the HOF and probably on the first ballot.

[Rico]

Boy, I hope you are not to upset when this not great QB likely makes it to the HOF.

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[BuffOrange]

PG,

Bledsoe has a 0% chance of making the HOF. It's not a stats compilation contest like baseball. If it were, Art Monk - who was relatively better at his position - would be in easily.

 

His awful playoff track record has been brought up numerous times here and even the most loyal DB fans haven't been able to refute this fact. I'm don't have the energy to explain it again, but go look up what the Patriots passing game actually produced (or didn't produce) in 1996, which was sadly his best postseason. It was very "1999 Steve McNairesque".

[Kelly the Dog]

PG,

Bledsoe has a 0% chance of making the HOF.  It's not a stats compilation contest like baseball.  If it were, Art Monk - who was relatively better at his position - would be in easily. 

 

His awful playoff track record has been brought up numerous times here and even the most loyal DB fans haven't been able to refute this fact.  I'm don't have the energy to explain it again, but go look up what the Patriots passing game actually produced (or didn't produce) in 1996, which was sadly his best postseason.  It was very "1999 Steve McNairesque".

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That's kind of a ridiculous thing to say. He will still play a couple more years in all likelihood. He might put up some serious numbers. There are a lot of players in the Hall with less credentials than Bledsoe. It's not a sure thing but there is a decent chance he will make it. I don't really think he deserves it myself but it's also kind of a popularity contest and Bledsoe is very well liked by the press. He's nice to them for the most part and they like him and that goes a long way to enshrinement.

[Rico]

That's kind of a ridiculous thing to say. He will still play a couple more years in all likelihood. He might put up some serious numbers. There are a lot of players in the Hall with less credentials than Bledsoe. It's not a sure thing but there is a decent chance he will make it. I don't really think he deserves it myself but it's also kind of a popularity contest and Bledsoe is very well liked by the press. He's nice to them for the most part and they like him and that goes a long way to enshrinement.

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The protests in Canton could get pretty ugly.

[BuffOrange]

That's kind of a ridiculous thing to say. He will still play a couple more years in all likelihood. He might put up some serious numbers. There are a lot of players in the Hall with less credentials than Bledsoe. It's not a sure thing but there is a decent chance he will make it. I don't really think he deserves it myself but it's also kind of a popularity contest and Bledsoe is very well liked by the press. He's nice to them for the most part and they like him and that goes a long way to enshrinement.

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OK, I've just never heard "Bledsoe" and "HOF" mentioned in the same sentence outside of a Bills message board. Bring it up anywhere else and it's a joke.

[Kelly the Dog]

OK, I've just never heard "Bledsoe" and "HOF" mentioned in the same sentence outside of a Bills message board.  Bring it up anywhere else and it's a joke.

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That's completely untrue also. This is an article on SI.com about it. He agrees with you and me, that Drew doesn't deserve it. But he makes a good point about Fouts being in with similar careers. And he talks about if people look at stats he's a lock. And they may. He definitely will be considered strongly for the Hall. Again, I don't think he deserves it and I'm not sticking up for him at all, I'm just saying that guys like him make it in all the time.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ.../bledsoe/1.html

[Rico]

Thanks, that is such a great article, I forgot how much I loved it. Bookmarked now.

"Clunky Drew"

[BuffOrange]

That's completely untrue also. This is an article on SI.com about it. He agrees with you and me, that Drew doesn't deserve it. But he makes a good point about Fouts being in with similar careers. And he talks about if people look at stats he's a lock. And they may. He definitely will be considered strongly for the Hall. Again, I don't think he deserves it and I'm not sticking up for him at all, I'm just saying that guys like him make it in all the time.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ.../bledsoe/1.html

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Well yeah, I figured I'd cue somebody to frisk the net.

But no, the idea that I'd never heard it discussed outside of here is not 'untrue' at all.