Bill Basher Adam Schien at it again...

[DE Bills Fan]

I am not going to get into each individual comment, but what would you truly expect a football broadcaster to say about the state of the Bills these days? Do you think that recent moves by the Bills, especially the stupid ass draft are worthy of praise?

 

Nobody on this board has more contempt for the jests than do I. They literally sicken me. I actually prefer the dolphins to the jests.

That said, they drafted the top LT and OC in the draft. We in turn wasted 3 of our first 4 picks on defensive backs and gave away an early pick in the process; sheer idiocy.

If you are waiting for a professional football commentator to portray the above act of stupidity as a good thing, I hope that you are a patient man.

698884[/snapback]

Great post! I could not agree with you more. The Bills have become the laughingstock of the league. To even mention the fact that there is a possibility they could go 0-16 by any media person shows just how bad they are and for anyone to take issue with critisim of the Bills shows they are not being realistic. When you consider the following, how can anyone feel that the Bills are even remotely credible:

 

* Marv Levy as GM. Does anyone really think he was even close to the best candidate in an ever-changing NFL world. Pure cronyism as Ralph's pal

* Dick Jaroun as HC. Are you kidding. He had one winning season fraught with good luck (blocked kicks, turnovers, you get the picture). Again, to think he was even close to being the best HC candidate is follishness at best

* The draft/Free agency. Are you kidding. The Bills had the WORST OFFENSE in team history, yet did not address the OL except for role players. On top of that, they brought in a #3 QB to compete for the starting spot. What a joke. On Defense, they cut Sam Adams and are touting Tim Anderson to be a good starter. Teams can't wait to run against us.

* Overall, this is the saddest I have ever seen the Bills seince the mid-80's and I really think the team is hopeless in all phases (Management/Coaching/Players). If they are lucky, they will win 3 games. It's looking more and more like a set-up to sell and move the franchise. Anyone wishing for even 5 wins will be greatly disapponted, and the future is even more bleak since hey show no signs of addressing their major problems (QB/OL/DL). That is what wins, not a SS)!!!!!!

[Bill from NYC]

* Overall, this is the saddest I have ever seen the Bills seince the mid-80's and I really think the team is hopeless in all phases (Management/Coaching/Players). If they are lucky, they will win 3 games. It's looking more and more like a set-up to sell and move the franchise.  Anyone wishing for even 5 wins will be greatly disapponted, and the future is even more bleak since hey show no signs of addressing their major problems (QB/OL/DL). That is what wins, not a SS)!!!!!!

700041[/snapback]

 

This is the part that truly frightens me. I love the Buffalo Bills, the people of WNY, and going to games at RWS. There are 2 pro teams that are far closer to me and I shun them. In fact, they sicken me for the fact that they abandoned the great state of New York.

 

I cannot see how any Bills Fan could even entertain the thought that this draft was good for the Bills in any possible way.

Will the 2nd safety selected in the draft sell tickets? No way.

Did they address the offensive line in the draft/free agency? Hell no!

Did they give up an early pick? Yes, thanks Marv.

Are the Bills; a cold weather, blue collar franchise a soft team? Of course we are, and it sickens me to see us neglect our primary needs. We continue to chase little people in the draft (many of whom are either so-so or in fact suck), and neglect the most important phases of football, the trenches.

 

In 07, I will not be surprised if old, dopey ass Levy lets Clements walk and takes yet another corner with the first pick. If he does, we can only hope that he does so without giving up a first day pick, and grabbing another safety.

[Albany,n.y.]

I think what most of the negative response people fail to understand is that Marv is not looking at 2006, but the years beyond 2006. Look at how young the prime draft choices are. He's trying to build a young D this offseason. He's got the D backs with or without Clements, for the next few years. He drafted a DT and signed another young DT in the offseason. If Takeo comes back strong, we'll need 1 LB after next year, but that's easy. As the plan gets closer to fruition, another DE will be acquired through draft or FA.

Now on offense-Marv is going to let Losman &/or Nall prove one way or another whether we need a new starter at QB. We're well stocked at WR, and the TE position has been upgraded with Royals, the development of Cieslak and the potential return of Everett. Willis is being counted on to be the franchise back. Once the OL shakes out, we can improve any weak spots in the offseason.

Unfortunately, too many people can't look beyond one season. As far as this year, yes-I'm pessimistic about the W-L record. But if I see positive signs of building-the emergence of key players-I'll be happy even if we go 2-14. ...and if we go 2-14, we'll probably need a new QB, Brady Quinn wouldn't look too bad in a Bills' uniform.

However, if JP or Nall plays lights out, a playoff spot is not out of the question, but the most likely scenario is a record similar to last year, with signs of a bright future from the young players. Looking back, 1985 was a bad year at 2-14, but the team had Smith and Reed developing into future stars and a HOF QB a year away from signing.

Please be patient, and don't say Marv doesn't know what he's doing before any of his picks have put pads on.

[John from Riverside]

Will the 2nd safety selected in the draft sell tickets?

 

Yes it will if in fact Whitner can come in and play the vital safety role in the cover 2. If we start winning games it will definately start putting @sses in the seats. Our defense let us down an awful lot last year considering we were one of the best the year before.

 

 

Did they address the offensive line in the draft/free agency? Hell no!

 

Yes they did in fact address the offensive line in free agency.....I fully believe that the coaching staff assessed (and rightfully so) that our tackles were good enough that they didn't need to be replaced. Our problems with our line came in the interior....and they were addressed with veteran guys.....fowler has shown well when given the opportunity and Reyes came from a very good panthers line (anyone who watched the Panthers/Bills game of last year can see that Reyes made virtually no mistakes in that game)

 

Did they give up an early pick? Yes, thanks Marv.

 

They gave up an early pick to get a quality D Linemen. They didn't feel he would be there when they went to pick next.

 

Are the Bills; a cold weather, blue collar franchise a soft team? Of course we are, and it sickens me to see us neglect our primary needs. We continue to chase little people in the draft (many of whom are either so-so or in fact suck), and neglect the most important phases of football, the trenches.

 

I feel that this statement is completely the opposite of what the bills actually did......when you look at a draft you cannot just look at the 1st 2 picks or whatever but at the overall draft when it was done....Whitner and Simpson were in the top 3 of every ratings system I say on safties.....and I found it interesting that some had Ko Simpson as the best and some had Whitner as the best. McCargo could be special but at the very least he is starting material.....Yuboty was a 1st round pick in damn near every mock draft......Kyle Williams is one of those guys you need on your team to be successfull.......Ellison has the looks of a ST's demon....and then our OL picks at the end of the draft are projects (we addressed our OL with Reyes and Fowler)

 

I feel that instead of going for glamor picks they did in fact "address their trenches"

 

In 07, I will not be surprised if old, dopey ass Levy lets Clements walk and takes yet another corner with the first pick. If he does, we can only hope that he does so without giving up a first day pick, and grabbing another safety.

 

Why should Levy take another corner when we got Yobuty this year? Why should he take another safety when he just drafted the 2 top safties in this draft?

[Bill from NYC]

Yes they did in fact address the offensive line in free agency.....I fully believe that the coaching staff assessed (and rightfully so) that our tackles were good enough that they didn't need to be replaced.  Our problems with our line came in the interior....and they were addressed with veteran guys.....fowler has shown well when given the opportunity and Reyes came from a very good panthers line (anyone who watched the Panthers/Bills game of last year can see that Reyes made virtually no mistakes in that game)

700194[/snapback]

 

John my friend, it is the same old story. They addressed the offensive line with late round picks and by sifting through the trash heap. In that, they were unsuccessful at getting the guy they seemed to want most, the RFA OG from Phoenix.

 

Instead, they stocked up on more small players and gave away an early pick in the process. They used a#8 on the second safety taken. This has never happened to my knowledge in the history of the NFL Draft.

 

The whole process was silly John. It was a disgrace.

[Bill from NYC]

I think what most of the negative response people fail to understand is that Marv is not looking at 2006, but the years beyond 2006.  Look at how young the prime draft choices are.  He's trying to build a young D this offseason.  He's got the D backs with or without Clements, for the next few years.  He drafted a DT and signed another young DT in the offseason.  If Takeo comes back strong, we'll need 1 LB after next year, but that's easy.  As the plan gets closer to fruition, another DE will be acquired through draft or FA. 

Now on offense-Marv is going to let Losman &/or Nall prove one way or another whether we need a new starter at QB.  We're well stocked at WR, and the TE position has been upgraded with Royals, the development of Cieslak and the potential return of Everett.  Willis is being counted on to be the franchise back.  Once the OL shakes out, we can improve any weak spots in the offseason.

Unfortunately, too many people can't look beyond one season.  As far as this year, yes-I'm pessimistic about the W-L record. But if I see positive signs of building-the emergence of key players-I'll be happy even if we go 2-14.  ...and if we go 2-14, we'll probably need a new QB, Brady Quinn wouldn't look too bad in a Bills' uniform. 

However, if JP or Nall plays lights out, a playoff spot is not out of the question, but the most likely scenario is a record similar to last year, with signs of a bright future from the young players.  Looking back, 1985 was a bad year at 2-14, but the team had Smith and  Reed developing into future stars and a HOF QB a year away from signing.

Please be patient, and don't say Marv doesn't know what he's doing before any of his picks have put pads on.

700188[/snapback]

 

The great Bills teams were not built with safeties, tiny wideouts, injured TEs, nor corners. This team is being built ass-backwards.

[John from Riverside]

John my friend, it is the same old story. They addressed the offensive line with late round picks and by sifting through the trash heap. In that, they were unsuccessful at getting the guy they seemed to want most, the RFA OG from Phoenix.

 

Instead, they stocked up on more small players and gave away an early pick in the process. They used a#8 on the second safety taken. This has never happened to my knowledge in the history of the NFL Draft.

 

The whole process was silly John. It was a disgrace.

700211[/snapback]

 

Huff may not end up even being the best safety Bill....

 

I dont blame Marv for this draft.....the @ss backwards way this team has been biult falls on Tom D. shoulders.........it is going to take Marv a little while to get it the way he wants it....

 

With the exception of Peerless Price I see all the incomings as Marv type guys....guys of high charactor who wont wilt when the pressure is on like our "superstar" primadonna's have done in the past.....

 

It wouldn't even shock me to see Willis Magehee hitting the road shortly.....

[Ramius]

The great Bills teams were not built with safeties, tiny wideouts, injured TEs, nor corners. This team is being built ass-backwards.

700215[/snapback]

 

And exactly what small wideouts, and injured TE's did Marv select. Oh thats right, none. Dont lump marv in with TD. Also, was Everett injured when TD drafted him? No. So thats a lame ass arguement.

 

What we got out of this draft was 4 potential starters by the beginning of 2007, and 2 this season. Not too shabby if you ask me. If we had taken your preferred draft and selected 4 o-linemen with our 1st 4 picks, we would have 1 maybe starter and 3 backups. But we would have drafted o-line and that would have made you happy. unfortunately it wouldnt have helped the team win.

 

We adressed the o-line through free agency, and almost replaced our entire interior line, which was the problem. perhaps we shoudl try some conistency on the lines, instead of using 6 draft picks every year on linemen as some of you want.

[Bill from NYC]

What we got out of this draft was 4 potential starters by the beginning of 2007, and 2 this season.

700220[/snapback]

 

 

LOL! Really. And you know this how?

 

If you think that drafting dbs with early picks is the way to win in a cover 2, or in fact ever, then I guess we will have to wait and see if this time tested formula does indeed work.

[John from Riverside]

I dont want to seem like I am piling on Bill...but I gotta point out that we did in fact take a 1st round D Tackle (if that is what you were referring to when you were talking about safeties in the cover 2) and then we turned around and used a later pick on another DT in Kyle Williams

[finknottle]

I think what most of the negative response people fail to understand is that Marv is not looking at 2006, but the years beyond 2006.  Look at how young the prime draft choices are.  He's trying to build a young D this offseason.  He's got the D backs with or without Clements, for the next few years.  He drafted a DT and signed another young DT in the offseason.  If Takeo comes back strong, we'll need 1 LB after next year, but that's easy.  As the plan gets closer to fruition, another DE will be acquired through draft or FA. 

Now on offense-Marv is going to let Losman &/or Nall prove one way or another whether we need a new starter at QB.  We're well stocked at WR, and the TE position has been upgraded with Royals, the development of Cieslak and the potential return of Everett.  Willis is being counted on to be the franchise back.  Once the OL shakes out, we can improve any weak spots in the offseason.

Unfortunately, too many people can't look beyond one season.  As far as this year, yes-I'm pessimistic about the W-L record. But if I see positive signs of building-the emergence of key players-I'll be happy even if we go 2-14.  ...and if we go 2-14, we'll probably need a new QB, Brady Quinn wouldn't look too bad in a Bills' uniform. 

:

700188[/snapback]

 

Excellent analysis, though I'm not so sure that Willis isn't being lumped in with Losman. (see my next reply...)

[finknottle]

The great Bills teams were not built with safeties, tiny wideouts, injured TEs, nor corners. This team is being built ass-backwards.

700215[/snapback]

 

This isn't the 70's, 80's, or 90's. Football isn't about three yards and a cloud of dust. Most winning teams beat you by having more quality receivers than you have secondary - having little drop-off at #'s 2, 3, and 4 is more important than having a top #1 receiver. And having strong #'s 2, 3, 4, and 5 in the defensive backfield is more important than having a lock-down corner.

 

No comment on the TE strategy.

 

(EDIT: That came off too harsh. I'd certainly feel better about drafting linemen. But I think the defensive backfield strategy is very defendable.)

[RJsackedagain]

This guy Adam is a freaking limerick ... he has no talent and is proof they will give anyone a talk show

[OCinBuffalo]

I don't understand why no one has brought up the ridiculous game plans/offensive play book we had last year. They clearly weren't designed for the players we had. I am not saying I want the Atlanta Falcons offense(read: Sandlot) in Buffalo but I sure don't want to lose 14 games this year either.

 

QB - We had a guy in JP who has similar characteristics at least athetically to a Brett Favre, yet we hadly ever rolled him out or used his mobility as part of the plan. Favre made a whole career out of rolling out. Instead we made him play Bledsoe's game??? We all saw what that was like in 2004. No wonder Holcomb did better - he can't run so standing in the pocket is all he can focus on. IMHO I saw a very frustrated player in JP last year because the playbook only allowed him to use half of his ability at best.

 

RB - There were at least 3 close games last year as I recall that we only handed the ball to McGahee 20 times or less. One in particular he got 16 touches the whole game. If we were trying to play ball control offense, wouldn't it have made sense to give it to the guy who runs for 3.8 yards a carry?

 

WR - We never ever let the WRs run last year. We never simply let them beat their man - despite the fact that a guy like Moulds made his name doing precisely that with Flutie. All you had to do was see the look on our WR's faces and you could tell that they were trying to think about 25 things rather than simply running the route.

 

TE - What about it. We didn't use them at all. I saw three designed tight end plays last year. Aikman said he would retire if he couldn't use his tight ends anymore. Perhaps we should have thought about that with what amounted to a rookie QB starting.

 

The stats belie the so-called plan. While watching with the Philly Backers club we used to laugh and sadly agreed that our playcalling was patently awful every game. It was so bad because it was so predictable. If a bunch of bolos in a bar can call the next play we are gonna run 90% of the time it's more than likely that the professionals on the other team can figure it out.

 

Bottom Line: It appeared to me that we had a Houston Oilers(run and shoot)type team in terms of talent/type of player on offense last year and instead of running with that we tried to play 80's Giants Football. Moulds said it best - throw me the ball. It doesn't have to be perfect. We pay these guys crazy money because of their talent->ability to make plays on gameday, not because of their ability to perform drills at practice->ability to be automatons. This isn't JV football.

 

You can't play ball possesion offense if no one is afraid of your deep threat(how can they be if you don't consistently throw it deep?), you only run 18 times a game, and especially if nobody knows who you are/what you are capable of = no respect and get blitzed every down. Last year the Steelers used a ton of trick plays and strange sets to maximize the potential of all of their players( Randel El, etc.) and they did pretty well as I recall. Even Rothesberger with a 6-something forty ran a couple draw plays for big yards.

 

I think this year we will see what all of our players are truly capable of if the game plan is built based on the players we have and not on some strange abstraction that might have worked at another team with different players. I can say this because our coordinator is (finally!)an attacking offense guy. The only issue is whether he and DJ will have philosophical conflicts.

 

If you don't agree simply think back to Flutie and remember how he won - making plays in real time not looking the best at practice. In contrast, I bet RJ was the best practice player in the NFL.

 

If you still don't agree then think about the K-Gun. Tell me that wasn't primarily based on players playing as opposed to coaches' tinkering.

 

Both examples are clearly superior in terms of results - which is all that truly matters - compared to what we have seen the last 5 years.

 

It is far too early to determine if JP is our guy or not. When Kelly first showed up he had problems and my Dad hated him immediately and he went on hating through 4 Super Bowls? He still hates him. I don't understand that, one of many things I don't get about my Dad:)

 

Even if it is eventually proven that JP can't get it done, it does not mean that he is the only reason the team loses. Reverse the logic: If JP plays well is he the only reason the team will win? Of course not. We truly have no idea what the guy can do because we have yet to see a solid plan that has been developed for this team since Levy was coaching.

 

Finally, personally attacking coaches solves nothing. It is possible for a good coach to simply come up with a bad plan. Whether or not a coach succeeds has less to do with who he is than what he teaches/plans. I think MM realized his plan was crap midway through the season, chucked it, and we ended up limping along in an effort to create job security for TD and MM. With the damage control firmly in place - fans were passively encouraged to place blame elsewhere. JP is an easy target so that is what everyone was/is shooting at. It's a pretty raw deal and a gigantic cop out for a GM and a Head Coach to allow the total success/failure of the team to be dumped on a rookie quarterback, and every time people say JP stinks they are enabling that cop out to continue.

 

I would love nothing more that for a plan that uses the players' skills effectively be put forward and, of course, the player execute it. This will leave us all with nothing but smiles for this Schein guy and Salisbury as well.

 

Go Bills!